Collusionaments?

[lurbz 2]

Sooooo $12 180 man, guys talking in Czech the whole time, I say let's have Stars look into it.All Names and #s are removed for now since the situation isn't completely closed.--------------- Original Message -----From: j*********@*********Sent: 2010/05/28 17:37:57To: support@pokerstars.comSubject: Possible Collusion/Softplay>Hi,>>Two players with similar screen names talking in a different language with>hands being discussed within said language. Could Tourney ID #2774*****>please be looked at (Table 20), the user names are ******CZ and ******CZ .>>Thank you.>>--Justin------------------I got this about 15 mins ago, tl;dr version they say no collusion and show the bust hand where one takes the other out, saying it was fair play. If you wanna read on go ahead but nothing of real importance...yet.On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 2:18 AM, PokerStars Support <support@pokerstars.com> wrote:Hello Justin,Thank you for your report.Although we do monitor the games for collusion, we always appreciate it whenplayers report any strange or unusual play to us for review.One of the advantages of online poker over brick and mortar poker venues isthat every hand is recorded, including each player's hole cards and how theyare played. If any play is considered suspicious we can then review thehands with all cards and play showing. As a result, cooperating players areimmediately obvious.When reviewing tournament play for possible collusion we check for thefollowing:1) Best hand play - where colluding players play only the better of theirtwo hands.2) Soft play - where colluding players refuse to play aggressively againsteach other. For example they may check or fold against each other where theywould normally bet or raise against a stranger.3) Chip dumping/Stack balancing - where the large stack folds to the smallstack to balance their chips. The idea is to improve the chances of bothplayers finishing in money positions in a tournament.Following your report, we have completed an investigation into the accountsof the players '****** CZ' and '******CZ'.One of the most obvious ways to determine a relationship is location. Inthis case both players live in Czech Republic. Despite this I can tell youthat location alone is generally not a good indicator as to whethercooperative play is occurring. With communication technology these days twoplayers can be on opposite sides of the world and still be cooperating.Instead we prefer to use a number of technological tools to assist us infinding relationships between players.We also look at how often players play with each other to see if they areplaying together more often than might be expected from strangers. As youmay understand, cooperating players would certainly prefer to play with eachother. On a site the size of PokerStars however, it might be considered alittle unusual if two players played together frequently.I can tell you that after reviewing the account and playing history of theseplayers, I can find no reason to believe that they are related or seekingeach other out at our tables.Of course the only way to know for certain if players are working togetheras a team is to review their actual play. In this case no suspicious playcould be found. I was able to see where these players played aggressivelyagainst one another, and I have included the transcript from one of thesehands to demonstrate.As you know, one of the more common and effective methods of team play isstack balancing. In this situation it was of no benefit for them to playthis hand in this manner. In fact, the way ****** CZ attacked andeliminated his "partner" is a clear indicator of fair play, as cooperatingplayers will generally avoid confrontations with each other.*********************************************************************PokerStars Game #***********: Tournament #2774******, $11+$1 USD Hold'em NoLimit - Level XVIII (2500/5000) - 2010/05/28 17:42:56 ETTable '277****** 20' 9-max Seat #4 is the buttonSeat 1: Vovelo (67631 in chips)Seat 4: ******CZ (56531 in chips)Seat 5: ****** CZ (90577 in chips)Seat 6: zupahman (55261 in chips)17:42:56 Vovelo: posts the ante 50017:42:56 ZralokCZ: posts the ante 50017:42:56 ****** CZ: posts the ante 50017:42:56 zupahman: posts the ante 50017:42:56 Moving Bets to Pot17:42:56 Papouch CZ: posts small blind 250017:42:56 zupahman: posts big blind 500017:42:56 *** HOLE CARDS ***17:43:00 ******CZ said, "jaka supernova ?"17:43:00 Vovelo: folds17:43:06 ******CZ: raises 51031 to 56031 and is all-in17:43:12 ****** CZ: raises 34046 to 90077 and is all-in17:43:12 zupahman: folds17:43:12 Moving Bets to Pot17:43:12 Uncalled bet (34046) returned to ****** CZ17:43:1317:43:15 *** FLOP *** [2c Ad 4s]17:43:19 *** TURN *** [2c Ad 4s] [8h]17:43:21 *** RIVER *** [2c Ad 4s 8h] [8c]17:43:22 ****** CZ said, "sorry man..."17:43:23 *** SHOW DOWN ********* CZ: shows [9c 9s] (two pair, Nines and Eights)17:43:23 ******CZ: shows [7s 7c] (two pair, Eights and Sevens)17:43:25 ****** CZ collected 119062 from pot17:43:25 ******CZ finished the tournament in 4th place and received $158.40.17:43:25 ****** CZ said, "musel sem"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 119062 | Rake 0Board [2c Ad 4s 8h 8c]Seat 1: Vovelo folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: ******CZ (button) showed [7s 7c] and lost with two pair, Eights andSevensSeat 5: ****** CZ (small blind) showed [9c 9s] and won (119062) with twopair, Nines and EightsSeat 6: zupahman (big blind) folded before FlopIn conclusion, given the lack of any relationship between their accounts,the minimal amount of play together, and the lack of any suspiciously playedhands, there is no evidence to suggest these two players are cooperating atour tables. I have placed notes in both player's accounts indicating thisreview and your concerns, so if any future suspicious play is noted betweenthem there will be a record of this investigation.Once again, thanks for your report, and best of luck at the tables!Regards,*********PokerStars.--------------------I pulled up my bust hand, and decided to look up the guy's chat and what it would be in that language. Turns out, this would be a good idea. I've sent the following email just now.-------------------Hi,Here's your proof. Here is a link to what the word "deset" means in Czech, meaning "Ten": deset - WiktionaryHere is the hand in which I busted, and these two have been talking in Czech the whole game, bolded are the sections in which I have bolded the player in question stating "deset deset" in Czech, clearly to the only player at the table speaking that language, and proceeding to have that exact hand:PokerStars Game #**********: Tournament #2774******, $11+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (2000/4000) - 2010/05/28 14:37:18 PT [2010/05/28 17:37:18 ET]Table '27******** 20' 9-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: Vovelo (39067 in chips) Seat 2: wanne pay me (22004 in chips) Seat 3: BBsRJReich (26231 in chips) Seat 4: ******CZ (50231 in chips) Seat 5: ****** CZ (64146 in chips) Seat 6: zupahman (43761 in chips) Seat 9: manollo1900 (24560 in chips) Vovelo: posts the ante 400wanne pay me: posts the ante 400BBsRJReich: posts the ante 400******CZ: posts the ante 400****** CZ: posts the ante 400zupahman: posts the ante 400manollo1900: posts the ante 400zupahman: posts small blind 2000manollo1900: posts big blind 4000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to BBsRJReich [Qh Ks]Vovelo: folds ****** CZ said, "deset deset"wanne pay me: folds BBsRJReich: raises 21831 to 25831 and is all-in****** CZ: folds ****** CZ: raises 37915 to 63746 and is all-inzupahman: folds manollo1900: folds Uncalled bet (37915) returned to Papouch CZ*** FLOP *** [Tc 7h 8d]*** TURN *** [Tc 7h 8d] [Ah]*** RIVER *** [Tc 7h 8d Ah] [Ad]****** CZ said, "yes man..."*** SHOW DOWN ***BBsRJReich: shows [Qh Ks] (a pair of Aces)****** CZ: shows [Td Th] (a full house, Tens full of Aces)****** CZ collected 60462 from potBBsRJReich finished the tournament in 7th place and received $69.30.*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 60462 | Rake 0 Board [Tc 7h 8d Ah Ad]Seat 1: Vovelo folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: wanne pay me folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: BBsRJReich showed [Qh Ks] and lost with a pair of AcesSeat 4: ******CZ folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: ****** CZ (button) showed [Td Th] and won (60462) with a full house, Tens full of AcesSeat 6: zupahman (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: manollo1900 (big blind) folded before FlopPlease alter your review.----------------------------Cliffs: I decide to not straight up take Stars explanation as final, I look into it, find clear evidence, Stars should prob hire me for their collusion department.

[I_fold08 1]

deja vu

[GOCUBSGO 77]

book of text

[CoolHandKai 0]

All Names and #s are removed for now since the situation isn't completely closed.Dealt to BBsRJReich [Qh Ks]Vovelo: folds ****** CZ said, "deset deset"wanne pay me: folds BBsRJReich: raises 21831 to 25831 and is all-in****** CZ: folds ****** CZ: raises 37915 to 63746 and is all-inzupahman: folds manollo1900: folds Uncalled bet (37915) returned to Papouch CZ

lurbz fail.

[outsider13 0]

It pretty obvious imo. I can see their point though seeing as they busted one another, but if that isn't collusion, well they perhaps they need to redefine what is. In general though, I don't think anybody regs 180s with the intention of colluding. This may be a fairly isolated incident, but nonetheless its collusion.

[tbrick412 0]

tldr

[kobe2odom8 14]

serious business

[king_tanner 84]

Sometimes you just need to outplay the colluders

[Jariso13 1]

Translate during the hand next time