If The League Started Over...

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Ray Allen > Reggie MillerRay has a much more complete game. He is better at penetrating and passing, and is the smarter team defender aside from being a slightly better shooter.

Allen also doesn't have Dumbo Ears

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Really? Don't think Howard would make my top 15

quadaces. Noted.

[Canary3 1]

Don't I look silly after tonights game. What a game for Allen.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Don't I look silly after tonights game. What a game for Allen.

yeah, make your decisions on who's better on a one game sample size, that's pretty smart!

[CaneBrain 95]

No way would I want a jackass like GP on my all time team (even though at his peak he was well beyond Stockton).Isiah ThomasJordanPippenBird Shaq.I would take Shaq and surround him with three versatile perimeter players who all had off the charts basketball IQs, good passers, good enough shooters, proven winners/crunch time performers, and great defenders plus a point guard who was a true PG and another clutch guy.I think Shaq remains somehow underrated (his career, not currently of course). There has never existed anyone who could guard him one on one in his prime. I could be talked into Kareem Abdul Jabaar instead of Shaq maybe. I want a center who I can always throw it in to for a high percentage shot and go from there.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

No way would I want a jackass like GP on my all time team (even though at his peak he was well beyond Stockton).Isiah ThomasJordanPippenBird Shaq.I would take Shaq and surround him with three versatile perimeter players who all had off the charts basketball IQs, good passers, good enough shooters, proven winners/crunch time performers, and great defenders plus a point guard who was a true PG and another clutch guy.I think Shaq remains somehow underrated (his career, not currently of course). There has never existed anyone who could guard him one on one in his prime. I could be talked into Kareem Abdul Jabaar instead of Shaq maybe. I want a center who I can always throw it in to for a high percentage shot and go from there.

The reason shaq gets such a knock is people believe ( fairly or not) that he was some fraction of the player he should have been, if he worked harder and had more fire. At his peak, he was the most unstoppable player, physically, I've ever seen. It' still probably take kareem, though. the sky hook is the most unstoppable shot in history, and he was a better FT shooter ( a legit knock on shaq)Also, I really can't see taking Isiah over Magic. I mean, even if they were equally great ( and I think Magic was greater) , Magic was 6-9. I don't think it's even close. And it would be nice to have more height with that line up since you don't have a true power forward.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think Shaq remains somehow underrated (his career, not currently of course). There has never existed anyone who could guard him one on one in his prime.

yeah, but:

The reason shaq gets such a knock is people believe ( fairly or not) that he was some fraction of the player he should have been, if he worked harder and had more fire.

exactly.

At his peak, he was the most unstoppable player, physically, I've ever seen.

The other thing is that his "peak" lasted about 5 minutes. Which is probably related to the whole attitude thing.

[babylondonks 5]

you don't take Payton for being a jackass and then you choose Isiah?

[CaneBrain 95]

you don't take Payton for being a jackass and then you choose Isiah?

Jordan was a jackass too but him and Isiah are winners. I took shaqand 4 winners.Who cares if shaq never reached his potential?What he did from 95-03 was amazing. And he makes his teammates better.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Jordan was a jackass too but him and Isiah are winners.

You could make a strong case that Payton outplayed jordan in the 1996 finals. Jordan had several stinkers in that series, including a game 6 not unlike Kobe's game 7 where where jordan went 5-19 with a 26% shooting. The bulls were just a better team than the sonics, it had nothing to do with Peyton not being a "winner"Also, LOL @ the idea of choosing one player over another on this list because they aren't Winners" as if picking Peyton over Isiah would turn a team with Jordan, Pippen, Bird and shaq from winners to losers. Fuk, if I ran point for that team, it would still win 80 regular season games. But, I mean, if you want "winners", then Magic imo. Or if you just want the greatest point guard of all time who also happens to be 6'9, then magic imo.

Who cares if shaq never reached his potential?What he did from 95-03 was amazing. And he makes his teammates better.

Well, I mean, I think some fans resent players who are lazy or who don't squeeze every bit out of their potential like jordan or somebody. I don't really care, My self. Like I said, I'd take peak shaq over literally any center of all time. And his peak wasn't five minutes. Shaq in 1994-1995 37 mins per 29.3 points .583 shooting % 11.4 rebounds, 2.7 ast 2.4 blks1999-00 Shaq 40 mins 29.7 points .574 shooting % 13.6 rbs, 3.8 ass, 3 blks2004-05 Shaq 34 mins, 22.9 points .601 shooting % (lol!) 10.4 rbs, 2.7 ast, 2.3 blks that's pretty freaking great for 10 solid years

[CaneBrain 95]

You could make a strong case that Payton outplayed jordan in the 1996 finals. Jordan had several stinkers in that series, including a game 6 not unlike Kobe's game 7 where where jordan went 5-19 with a 26% shooting. The bulls were just a better team than the sonics, it had nothing to do with Peyton not being a "winner"Also, LOL @ the idea of choosing one player over another on this list because they aren't Winners" as if picking Peyton over Isiah would turn a team with Jordan, Pippen, Bird and shaq from winners to losers. Fuk, if I ran point for that team, it would still win 80 regular season games. But, I mean, if you want "winners", then Magic imo. Or if you just want the greatest point guard of all time who also happens to be 6'9, then magic imo. Well, I mean, I think some fans resent players who are lazy or who don't squeeze every bit out of their potential like jordan or somebody. I don't really care, My self. Like I said, I'd take peak shaq over literally any center of all time. And his peak wasn't five minutes. Shaq in 1994-1995 37 mins per 29.3 points .583 shooting % 11.4 rebounds, 2.7 ast 2.4 blks1999-00 Shaq 40 mins 29.7 points .574 shooting % 13.6 rbs, 3.8 ass, 3 blks2004-05 Shaq 34 mins, 22.9 points .601 shooting % (lol!) 10.4 rbs, 2.7 ast, 2.3 blks that's pretty freaking great for 10 solid years

hey, you gotta decide how to pick people somehow. I took Isiah over Magic because Isiah was a better jump shooter which I think makes more sense with Shaq. In a vacuum, Magic > Isiah obv.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

hey, you gotta decide how to pick people somehow. I took Isiah over Magic because Isiah was a better jump shooter which I think makes more sense with Shaq. In a vacuum, Magic > Isiah obv.

if that's the criteria, I'd take stockton or nash.

[CaneBrain 95]

if that's the criteria, I'd take stockton or nash.

I hate John Stockton, but he would be a fine pick.Nash is too much of a defensive liability for my tastes. This is all splitting hairs anyway.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I hate John Stockton, but he would be a fine pick.Nash is too much of a defensive liability for my tastes. This is all splitting hairs anyway.

Yeah, but again, if your team is Jordan, pippen, bird and shaq, you can afford a defensive liability at point.

[SuperJon 175]

mY DREAM team would be as follows:Center - That would be my uncle because he is tall. We called him Uncle tall when we were younger, and i think he can durnk the ball good.power ford - optimus prime no dobut. im sure he gotz mad skillz ya heard!?small ford - my 3rd grade teacher mrs johnson. bitchez be ballin' dawgshoot guard - fabio. met him a few years back and played some horse. made those mj and lb commercials look weakpoint guard - john elway. cuz it's john elway that's why.coach - my kitty muffin. she is smart and knows the game.

[Canary3 1]

Nope it was right the first time Ray allen has shot .396 from the arc for his career, and miller 395, and allen only had 1 season ( his rookie season) where he got the benefit of the shorted three point line.

I think the only reason Ray Allen's career numbers are better than Miller's are because Reggie played until he was 39. If you are going to compare numbers like shooting percentages, wait 5 years or until Ray retires and take a look at the numbers.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think the only reason Ray Allen's career numbers are better than Miller's are because Reggie played until he was 39. If you are going to compare numbers like shooting percentages, wait 5 years or until Ray retires and take a look at the numbers.

okay, I can just ignore the fact that miller benefited from a short 3 point like for 3 years during his prime, then.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

For what it's worth...Miller's 3P% during the three year short line were 41.5%, 41.0%, and 42.7%.The year before the short line was 42.1% and the year after was 42.9%.I don't even know what you guys are arguing about, but I think Ray Allen is a better player than Reggie Miller.

[Canary3 1]

You don't have to ignore it, but I think it makes less of a difference than you think. 3 years he shot 1 foot 9 inches closer in an 18 year career. What kind of percentage value is that worth? I have no idea.

[Canary3 1]

My original argument was never Reggie is a better player than Ray. I just said that I would rather have Reggie Miller than Ray Allen as a shooter off the bench.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Oh, then why not just go with Steve Kerr if all we care about is shooting?

[Canary3 1]

Good point. 45% is crazy. I just looked up Steve Kerr's stats. Is there any way he is 6'3?

[BellaVega 0]

I'd put Kobe in the top five even though he is older than the other guys. As of right now, I would have Lebron, Wade, Dwight Howard, Garnett and Carmelo. As far as a classic team, I'd have Magic, Jordan, Miller, Thomas and Rodman.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'd have 2007 garnett, but not garnett today.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

I'm taking Durant number 1. No question in my mind.