A Mosque On The Twin Towers Site?

[El Guapo 8]

Anyone who is comparing Islam to Christianity is being intellectually dishonest. Especially if you are trying to make the case the fanatics of each religions somehow match up.

[brvheart 1,752]

That's....that's not how this math works. 22% of all Christians in America are crazy nutter butters. That's my estimation. Not half of all protestants. Don't know how you got there.I know Roeder did use scripture (because I was visiting my brother in law in Kansas when the verdict came in and I read it in the paper) but to this point I can't prove it. Not that it matters clearly he and his supporters believe the bible commands them to kill abortionists. One guy is a small sample size but I am sure there are a few Christians that do what Mills implied. Certainly not many.

You can discount nearly all Catholics immediately. Many only go to church twice a year and most vote democrat. Basically the exact opposite of what we're talking about.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

You can discount nearly all Catholics immediately. Many only go to church twice a year and most vote democrat. Basically the exact opposite of what we're talking about.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Anyone who is comparing Islam to Christianity is being intellectually dishonest. Especially if you are trying to make the case the fanatics of each religions somehow match up.

Anyone who is comparing Islam to Christianity is most likely having a conversation with no clear framing of how to do the comparison. Therefore, the conversation will do no better than scattered insults and name calling.

[AmScray 355]

[SweetDee 0]

re: the bolded: likewise. Half the time I am spent wondering if you are batshit crazy.It's no secret what Al Qaeda's goal is. I don't think you have any idea what Islam's goal is because I doubt they have meetings where they all get together and agree on a goal. There are many Muslims with many goals.I find the goals of a large segment of the Christians in this country to be bigoted, idiotic BS. I don't think that means Christianity has those goals as one collective group. You and BG sound wildly paranoid.

It's also no secret that Al Qaedas interpretation of the Quran is pretty damn close to the actual interpretation. Like BG said, how many times does this experiment need to be tried before it's laid to rest?I do like your last statement, but, it's largely telling. Read this link, this guy does a great job painting a picture of what a joke it is that the Quran burning guy gets his shit jumped all over by the Office of the President no less, but that very same office preaches tolerance for the inconsiderate bad behavior of Muslims:http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/20...-koran-burning/It's a great piece.

[SweetDee 0]

That's....that's not how this math works. 22% of all Christians in America are crazy nutter butters. That's my estimation. Not half of all protestants. Don't know how you got there.I know Roeder did use scripture (because I was visiting my brother in law in Kansas when the verdict came in and I read it in the paper) but to this point I can't prove it. Not that it matters clearly he and his supporters believe the bible commands them to kill abortionists. One guy is a small sample size but I am sure there are a few Christians that do what Mills implied. Certainly not many.

You know what I got from this? You don't sound biased at all, I must have been wrong about you. These whole two paragraphs show an open mind right from the get go.

[CaneBrain 95]

You know what I got from this? You don't sound biased at all, I must have been wrong about you. These whole two paragraphs show an open mind right from the get go.

ok, 21%.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Do you feel that there is a problem of Christian violence around the world right now?edit: also, the alternative is that "all religions are exactly equally likely to lead to violence" which seems just absurd on the face of it. why would the specific content of religious doctrine have no effect on people?

No, not right now per se, but Christianity has been wrought with violence throughout history, and it's mostly changed because as countries lessened focus on religon and more on economics and human rights that it tends to get shoved to the back burner. The vast majority of Christians don't have an inkling into what Christianities past was and couldn't tell you jack about the bible. Now, imagine what it is like trying to decipher the Quoran when you are illiterate and only being told what it says through your Imam? Let's face it, a large portion of Muslim nations aren't much better off than Europe in the 16th century and alot of the rest are living under censored information. That is what needs to change. We need to continue pushing for human rights, especially for women, education and freedom of the press. I believe there is a huge groundswell of support for this in the strictest Islamic nations, Saudi Arabia and Iran but it won't change overnight. It will also take some people from within to speak up. In the meantime we can work on the poorer and more moderate countries and gain their support instead of letting their people be used as tools by the radicals.Look, we argue with the most learned people about faith in these ultimate creators and their promise of afterlifes all the time. This wasn't possible in any effective way even ten years ago.

[Balloon guy 158]

No, not right now per se, but Christianity has been wrought with violence throughout history, and it's mostly changed because as countries lessened focus on religon and more on economics and human rights that it tends to get shoved to the back burner. The vast majority of Christians don't have an inkling into what Christianities past was and couldn't tell you jack about the bible. Now, imagine what it is like trying to decipher the Quoran when you are illiterate and only being told what it says through your Imam? Let's face it, a large portion of Muslim nations aren't much better off than Europe in the 16th century and alot of the rest are living under censored information. That is what needs to change. We need to continue pushing for human rights, especially for women, education and freedom of the press. I believe there is a huge groundswell of support for this in the strictest Islamic nations, Saudi Arabia and Iran but it won't change overnight. It will also take some people from within to speak up. In the meantime we can work on the poorer and more moderate countries and gain their support instead of letting their people be used as tools by the radicals.Look, we argue with the most learned people about faith in these ultimate creators and their promise of afterlifes all the time. This wasn't possible in any effective way even ten years ago.

Your understanding of history is greatly slanted.

[Mills 0]

Anyone who is comparing Islam to Christianity is being intellectually dishonest. Especially if you are trying to make the case the fanatics of each religions somehow match up.

I was pointing out that justifying horrible actions through a particular holy book is something that is common to both.

[Mills 0]

1. What right are Christian's currently denying people? Where are Christian's currently in control? What percentage of 'Christians' in this country do you think are in the far right crazy wing?2. Please quote me some verses that Christian's use to justify killing people. Also, since it was proclaimed so audaciously, I assume you have a link to an arrest report or something where the killer quoted a verse?

I don't know if the guy quoted a verse specifically. I said that they justified it biblically. The case Cane mentioned was exactly what I was thinking about, actually.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Your understanding of history is greatly slanted.

You, you just want another Inquisition.

[Mills 0]

Do you feel that there is a problem of Christian violence around the world right now?edit: also, the alternative is that "all religions are exactly equally likely to lead to violence" which seems just absurd on the face of it. why would the specific content of religious doctrine have no effect on people?

Of course it effects people. But our morality comes from us. The reason why you don't see the majority of Christians or Muslims killing each other is because most of them take the good parts from what their holy book says while disregarding the vile stuff. Some don't, and it leads to some bad stuff. Just last month there was another story of some Christian nutter who wouldn't give her baby medical treatment, opting to pray instead.It just seems to me when you try to reduce all of tthe problems in the middle east to 'Islam' you are greatly oversimplifying things.

[vbnautilus 48]

Of course it effects people. But our morality comes from us. The reason why you don't see the majority of Christians or Muslims killing each other is because most of them take the good parts from what their holy book says while disregarding the vile stuff. Some don't, and it leads to some bad stuff. Just last month there was another story of some Christian nutter who wouldn't give her baby medical treatment, opting to pray instead.It just seems to me when you try to reduce all of tthe problems in the middle east to 'Islam' you are greatly oversimplifying things.

I have by no means argued that "all of the problems in the middle east reduce to Islam". My point is that we must critically examine the contribution of Islam, rather than absolving it a priori simply because it is a religion, that our worries about the role of Islam in violence around the world warranted.

[Roll the Bones 74]

I have by no means argued that "all of the problems in the middle east reduce to Islam". My point is that we must critically examine the contribution of Islam, rather than absolving it a priori simply because it is a religion, that our worries about the role of Islam in violence around the world warranted.

I think we are all in agreement with you, it's just that protesting a cultural diversity center run by a board consisting of Jews, Christians and Muslims, and a facility that will not only include a mosque for prayer, but also a places for Christians and Jews as well. It seems like this is the kind of thing we should be supporting.We can rant against Islam in other ways, especially encouraging moderates to speak out.

[Balloon guy 158]

You, you just want another Inquisition.

Less deaths over 200 years than from Islamic terrorist in 2 hours.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think we are all in agreement with you, it's just that protesting a cultural diversity center run by a board consisting of Jews, Christians and Muslims, and a facility that will not only include a mosque for prayer, but also a places for Christians and Jews as well. It seems like this is the kind of thing we should be supporting.We can rant against Islam in other ways, especially encouraging moderates to speak out.

The news today said the Iman for this mosque is re-considering whether their decision to build on this particular site was needlessly inflammatory.Even he disagrees with you about what this cultural center means.

[vbnautilus 48]

I think we are all in agreement with you, it's just that protesting a cultural diversity center run by a board consisting of Jews, Christians and Muslims, and a facility that will not only include a mosque for prayer, but also a places for Christians and Jews as well. It seems like this is the kind of thing we should be supporting.We can rant against Islam in other ways, especially encouraging moderates to speak out.

You are really just eating up their PR with a spoon. First of all, they have continually changed their language about this stuff since the backlash. When their website first became active they said explicitly that the place was to contain a mosque, and then later they changed the language on their website to say "prayer space". But in addition to the mosque, they will have a restaurant serving halal food, basketball courts, etc. There is no church or synagogue. There is no Kosher restaurant. This is an Islamic center. Throwing Jew or a Christian on the "board of directors" does not change this.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

You are really just eating up their PR with a spoon. First of all, they have continually changed their language about this stuff since the backlash. When their website first became active they said explicitly that the place was to contain a mosque, and then later they changed the language on their website to say "prayer space". But in addition to the mosque, they will have a restaurant serving halal food, basketball courts, etc. There is no church or synagogue. There is no Kosher restaurant. This is an Islamic center. Throwing Jew or a Christian on the "board of directors" does not change this.

And since everybody knows that a place must represent all religions to be built in Manhattan, this information is relevant.

[Mills 0]

You are really just eating up their PR with a spoon. First of all, they have continually changed their language about this stuff since the backlash. When their website first became active they said explicitly that the place was to contain a mosque, and then later they changed the language on their website to say "prayer space". But in addition to the mosque, they will have a restaurant serving halal food, basketball courts, etc. There is no church or synagogue. There is no Kosher restaurant. This is an Islamic center. Throwing Jew or a Christian on the "board of directors" does not change this.

I thought I saw somewhere that there would be prayer rooms for other faiths... but even if there wasnt...

[vbnautilus 48]

And since everybody knows that a place must represent all religions to be built in Manhattan, this information is relevant.

It is entirely relevant. The meaning of the choice to build there would be different if it were a Jain temple or a Zoroastrian synagogue. It's not; it's an Islamic center. The curious thing is why its defenders want to insist that it's not Islamic.

[Balloon guy 158]

I thought I saw somewhere that there would be prayer rooms for other faiths... but even if there wasnt...

When Muslims run the country, no other religion is legally allowed.When we run the country, all of them are.This place is not, nor ever, was being built for anyone but muslims.And the fact that it is a low population location, and an unsustainable fiscal location shows that the motives they have are 100% based on it's being built on a site destroyed by the 9-11 hijackers.You know why they don't dump $100 million on a cultural center for diversity in Yemen?

[Roll the Bones 74]

You are really just eating up their PR with a spoon. First of all, they have continually changed their language about this stuff since the backlash. When their website first became active they said explicitly that the place was to contain a mosque, and then later they changed the language on their website to say "prayer space". But in addition to the mosque, they will have a restaurant serving halal food, basketball courts, etc. There is no church or synagogue. There is no Kosher restaurant. This is an Islamic center. Throwing Jew or a Christian on the "board of directors" does not change this.

Okay, so if it is an Islamic center that would only occasionally focus on mulit-cultural activities is that such a bad thing? When this topic originally came up, I did alot of searching to actually see if this Imam was indeed radical and then, up until now, I have seen no evidence of it. He has been true to this ideology for over 20 years (in Manhatten) from all evidence. He has even wrote a book and fronted an organization for cultural diversity for many years that has been by all accounts very successful. So given all that, we shouldn't just blindly use this mosque as a target. We have many other paths to bring down religon and it's downfalls on society.

[Roll the Bones 74]

Less deaths over 200 years than from Islamic terrorist in 2 hours.

Okay, you guys were just really terrible for a long time and they managed to accomplish it in only a few hours. So are you mad they were more efficient?