Hand From Live $65buyin

[melaskins 0]

This is a live tourney that I really like. It's no rebuy and usually draws 60-80 people. I have played this tourney 6 times and finished in the money 4 times, winning it once. 20 minute blinds take away from solid in the middle rounds and forces you to make some fairly risky plays. I've been the musical chairs guy and have been moved three times between two tables. It was weird. The man on my left is an older man that is not real creative with his play. But he is solid. At the beginning the tourney we started out with him on my left. I've only seen him one showdown where he raised 4x from early position with AKs.Fifth level blinds are 200/400 and I have 3200. UTG is one of big stacks at the table with about 20K he has just won a pretty decent pot with his AKs. UTG raises to 800. I thought that was a suspicious raise. Maybe middle to weak pair or a really weak A. Probably not suited connectors or anything like that. It felt like he was wanting to see a cheap flop after his big win. At that I am trying to figure out if I can push him off his hand by going all in. I felt like I probably could. Then another shorty in MP calls. I didn't like that. Then, much to my chagrin, the cutoff, with about 12K calls. The button and the sb both fold. Here's my thought process. When UTG min raises, I wasn't sure what I would do. Online, at this stage with a min raise and two callers, I would probably really consider folding this as the play is generally more creative and you can't push anybody off of a hand. But this looks like weak hands that just want to see a flop and hope they get lucky. What made me consider folding here is that there is typically a lot of 4-5 blind players that stretch their way into the final table in this tourney. They sit there and wait and wait and wait for premium hands. I am not good at that kind of play but feel that it is something that I need to improve at. Particularly for this tournament.So can I fold this? Should I just insta-shove it? Or is calling even a consideration here?

[TrueAce13 18]

Edit: Meh....you have no FE in the hand...kinda meh spot. I don't mind either

[cashman 0]

I would consider reraising to 1600. You have no fold equity and you're pretty much out of the tournament w/just 3200 chips. Might as well try to get that pot as big as possible. If you min reraise I would think almost everyone will basically be priced in to call. You're going to have to get real lucky w/the flop but you're either going to win the hand or bust out so you need to do whatever you can to build the pot as big as possible. If you shove you may get a couple of players out but I would prefer to have them all stick around and then hope to get lucky. Never good to be forced to gamble like this, but it is what it is and now you just have to hope for the best. Either that or just fold and hope you get a better spot soon.

[Biff Goods 0]

This is a silly spot. I don't really think any play is awful...in the sense that it just sucks being here with this many chips in the first place. I probably lean towards calling cause the pot odd are so nice and you can still get away if you catch an unlucky flop but I gotta tell you I'm probably shipping any K, and J even if they are second pair on the flop. I don't know. I know you shouldn't succumb to your victim side when playing but I gotta tell you having 8 bb's in the first place is really the mistake in this hand.

[delved 0]

I would consider reraising to 1600. You have no fold equity and you're pretty much out of the tournament w/just 3200 chips. Might as well try to get that pot as big as possible. If you min reraise I would think almost everyone will basically be priced in to call. You're going to have to get real lucky w/the flop but you're either going to win the hand or bust out so you need to do whatever you can to build the pot as big as possible. If you shove you may get a couple of players out but I would prefer to have them all stick around and then hope to get lucky. Never good to be forced to gamble like this, but it is what it is and now you just have to hope for the best. Either that or just fold and hope you get a better spot soon.

This is the absolute worst thing you can do. Does anyone have any FE now? I think not. If they called an original 800 they're gonna call 800 more. It's either a flat call and get away from it if you flop nothing, or a shove. I'm fairly confident shoving here, as 8 BBs isn't going to last much longer regardless.

[rrumsey 0]

This is the absolute worst thing you can do. Does anyone have any FE now? I think not. If they called an original 800 they're gonna call 800 more. It's either a flat call and get away from it if you flop nothing, or a shove. I'm fairly confident shoving here, as 8 BBs isn't going to last much longer regardless.

+1

[melaskins 0]

My thinking was, if I shove here, UTG(One of the two big stacks at the table) will call. But because he has enough chips to bust the other two players as well and still be healthy, that might get the other two players to fold and I would be heads up. To me, it was extremely weak for the other two to call a min raise at this stage. What could they have that they couldn't raise with but could get all in with. Again, if this was on the internet, I could see that happening. But not here.

[TrueAce13 18]

This is either a flat or a shove. Like, there is nothing else that you can do. I think b/c this is a horrible $65 that you can fold and prolly wait for a little bit better of a spot, even tho your hand should play pretty decent of you get called. Stop saying "if internet" but live stuff. Its tilting. I think i would lean towards fold b/c you have absolutely no fold equity and kinda sucks to mash it in...yeh i would fold

[HighwayStar 8]

Against 1 player this would be a terrible shove. Against 2 it would be meh.Against 3 there is so much money in the pot it might be good. With your stack you will close to triple up if you get the pot heads up and win so you only need 33% equity vs the calling range of 1 person - which you will probably have. Once you get 3 or 4 way all ins it's pretty complicated but it might still be good.Folding is fine though

[cashman 0]

This is the absolute worst thing you can do. Does anyone have any FE now? I think not. If they called an original 800 they're gonna call 800 more. It's either a flat call and get away from it if you flop nothing, or a shove. I'm fairly confident shoving here, as 8 BBs isn't going to last much longer regardless.

I agree, folding or shoving is obviously the standard play here and is NORMALLY what I would do in this spot. My line of thinking is that if I call I need to be willing to go all the way here or I should just fold. As you say, 8 bbs isn't going to last much longer regardless. If you flat the 800 and miss you're down to 6bb. With that stack it seems to me that I am committing myself with any call. I think you should either shove or try to get the biggest pot possible knowing that your putting your tounament life on the line if you stay in this hand. Am I way off here?

[SwolyswoND 1]

His point is that it's stupid to make it 1600 instead of just shoving. It's still better for you if you can eliminate even just one opponent, but even if you can't, you can't possibly put half your stack in and then fold, so might as well shove pre.

[delved 0]

I agree, folding or shoving is obviously the standard play here and is NORMALLY what I would do in this spot. My line of thinking is that if I call I need to be willing to go all the way here or I should just fold. As you say, 8 bbs isn't going to last much longer regardless. If you flat the 800 and miss you're down to 6bb. With that stack it seems to me that I am committing myself with any call. I think you should either shove or try to get the biggest pot possible knowing that your putting your tounament life on the line if you stay in this hand. Am I way off here?

Essentially, what you're saying is that you'd rather quadruple up than double up? I think if you give someone the option of staying alive in the tournament with a hand like KJs vs one person or three people, they'll take one every time.

[melaskins 0]

Stop saying "if internet" but live stuff. Its tilting.

Can you explain how you feel that my opinion is indicative of tilting. For the hand, it really didn't take me very long to make the decision to shove. And as I hoped, UTG called and the other two folded. UTG had QQ and the other shorty had an A. I know this because he voiced his disgust when an A hit the flop. Most of you guys may disagree, but I thought this was a thought provoking hand. Not from my standpoint but from the two players between me and UTG. I'm typing this up not presuming to give any of you guys a lesson but to reinforce the idea in my own game. Playing with a shorty, particularly in one of the blinds should cause us to proceed with caution and realize that there could be an allin decision looming. UTG probably thought that with his minraise, he could eliminate tricky hands and see if an A or K hit the flop for a cheap price. Only a premium hand would reraise him preflop except for me and he doesn't care about my short stack with his hand. And it really worked out good for him that he got two callers and I shoved. I really think he should have gone ahead and reshoved to isolate me. The guy that folded his A made the comment that he couldn't believe that I shoved with my hand. Two other guys at the table, including UTG, said it was a good play. And yes, I hit a K on the river.

[cashman 0]

Can you explain how you feel that my opinion is indicative of tilting. For the hand, it really didn't take me very long to make the decision to shove. And as I hoped, UTG called and the other two folded. UTG had QQ and the other shorty had an A. I know this because he voiced his disgust when an A hit the flop. Most of you guys may disagree, but I thought this was a thought provoking hand. Not from my standpoint but from the two players between me and UTG. I'm typing this up not presuming to give any of you guys a lesson but to reinforce the idea in my own game. Playing with a shorty, particularly in one of the blinds should cause us to proceed with caution and realize that there could be an allin decision looming. UTG probably thought that with his minraise, he could eliminate tricky hands and see if an A or K hit the flop for a cheap price. Only a premium hand would reraise him preflop except for me and he doesn't care about my short stack with his hand. And it really worked out good for him that he got two callers and I shoved. I really think he should have gone ahead and reshoved to isolate me. The guy that folded his A made the comment that he couldn't believe that I shoved with my hand. Two other guys at the table, including UTG, said it was a good play. And yes, I hit a K on the river.

Are you saying that it is "thought provoking" because there is a chance that the short stack may shove at any time? You mean something else right? I think anybody that has played poker for a week knows you have to be aware of the short stack if you're going to raise with marginal hands and shorty acting behind you. And yes, the guy w/QQ definitely should have shoved.

[delved 0]

Can you explain how you feel that my opinion is indicative of tilting. For the hand, it really didn't take me very long to make the decision to shove. And as I hoped, UTG called and the other two folded. UTG had QQ and the other shorty had an A. I know this because he voiced his disgust when an A hit the flop. Most of you guys may disagree, but I thought this was a thought provoking hand. Not from my standpoint but from the two players between me and UTG. I'm typing this up not presuming to give any of you guys a lesson but to reinforce the idea in my own game. Playing with a shorty, particularly in one of the blinds should cause us to proceed with caution and realize that there could be an allin decision looming. UTG probably thought that with his minraise, he could eliminate tricky hands and see if an A or K hit the flop for a cheap price. Only a premium hand would reraise him preflop except for me and he doesn't care about my short stack with his hand. And it really worked out good for him that he got two callers and I shoved. I really think he should have gone ahead and reshoved to isolate me. The guy that folded his A made the comment that he couldn't believe that I shoved with my hand. Two other guys at the table, including UTG, said it was a good play. And yes, I hit a K on the river.

Eliminate tricky hands? I'm not going to be mean, but you have a lot of learning to do. QQ is a HUGE starting hand and UTG played it retarded by minraising. It doesn't work for him because IT ALLOWS hands like Ax and KJs-K8s to make the easy calls and see a flop. He should've raised 3x pre and then definitely iso-shoved after you shove with the 2 callers. This hand is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz