Playing Dumb, Ftp 3.30 90-man Knockout

[DVD ROTS 0]

So, clearly this isn't the correct play to make, but what is? Do I throw this away preflop, despite getting better than 3:1? Do I just not make the bet on the flop? Do I fold to the raise? Or is this one of those hands where it just kind of is what it is? "Don't make the flop bet, you friggin' donkey" seems to be the answer to me, but any input is welcome. Thanks!ETA: Forgot to mention, no real reads; we hadn't been at the same table long. Figured this could easily be a button steal (maybe too small of a raise for that?), and so on the flop, I figured I might take it down vs. overs, etc. I don't really know if this is a profitable mindset, though.Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em t120/t240 ante t25 - 8 playersCO: t1,121 Button: t4,180 SB: t6,924 BB: t6,690 (Hero)UTG: t8,675 UTG+1: t3,595 MP: t7,825 HJ: t8,330 Preflop: (t560) Hero is BB with (8 players)5 folds, Button raises to t600, SB folds, Hero calls t360Flop: (t1,520) (2 players)Hero bets t1,000, Button raises to t3,555, and is all in, Hero calls t2,555Turn: (t8,630) (2 players)River: (t8,630) (2 players)Button showed , and won (8,630) with two pair, Nines and FivesHero showed , and lost with a pair of FivesButton won t8,630

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Definitely fold to the shove, I probably would check flop if I called pre. This is a 3.30, even with good odds you don't necessarily need to splash around, there are better spots, and you have a comfortable stack for now.

[TrueAce13 18]

fold/jam pre. c/jam b/c i really hate donking this flop

[DVD ROTS 0]

fold/jam pre-could you elaborate a little on why the jam is better pre? I can definitely understand folding, but K7hh seems like a bad hand to be jamming with vs. a raiser, unless it's purely a squeeze. I felt like I wanted to fold or take a flop as cheaply as possible; is that flawed thinking?on the flop, you said to c/jam... do you mean check or jam, or check and then shove if he bets? ...either line is probably better than mine.

[rrumsey 0]

fold pre. if you wanna play this hand at all ( you shouldnt but whatever), just shove it in pre. and if you happen to slip trip and fall into this flop c/r all in.

[HighwayStar 8]

fold/jam pre-could you elaborate a little on why the jam is better pre? I can definitely understand folding, but K7hh seems like a bad hand to be jamming with vs. a raiser, unless it's purely a squeeze. I felt like I wanted to fold or take a flop as cheaply as possible; is that flawed thinking?on the flop, you said to c/jam... do you mean check or jam, or check and then shove if he bets? ...either line is probably better than mine.

You are way too shallow to flat call pre here. Shoving could turn a profit vs widish button stealers - it is only 16 BBs or so effective so it's pretty much perfect for a reshove. If he's too tight to do that, then just fold. I'd err on the side of saying this is a shove more than a fold in general.On flop he definitely means check/shove and I agree - most people will blindly c bet and sometimes fold - it's a good way to get money in the pot and then get him to fold. If you get called you likely have half the deck to it.As played you really have to call - you're gonna have 40-50% equity vs everything except sets and better flush draws - which is probably about 5% of his range. If you just get your money in on this flop it's not a big mistake at all. Open shoving is probably better than bet/call - you definitely fold out a lot of missed overcards this way and don't give him a chance to jam.I'd say check/shove >> open shove >>> bet call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any option that involves folding.

[Mercury69 3]

Fold PFIMO, this is exactly the kind of hand that is too marginal to risk your entire tourney on and basing it on PF pot odds isn't as smart as it seems. Sure, you can jam and hope Villain is tight enough to fold, but you're going to find yourself behind waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too often, unless you magically have a terrific read on a steal attempt. Given your stack size, **** the pot odds and fold and wait for a better spot.Just because the flop came with two of your required suit doesn't make this a done deal either.

[Tehtoe 3]

Fold PFIMO, this is exactly the kind of hand that is too marginal to risk your entire tourney on and basing it on PF pot odds isn't as smart as it seems. Sure, you can jam and hope Villain is tight enough to fold, but you're going to find yourself behind waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too often, unless you magically have a terrific read on a steal attempt. Given your stack size, **** the pot odds and fold and wait for a better spot.Just because the flop came with two of your required suit doesn't make this a done deal either.

lol

[HighwayStar 8]

I think not considering jamming here is really really weak. We're nowhere near putting our entire tournament on the line - not that that is a huge issue anyway. It's mathematically a +EV move to shove here quite a lot of the time.

[Mercury69 3]

lol

Hi...usually I only get your attention because I call people "cunts". Thanks for the lol!

I think not considering jamming here is really really weak. We're nowhere near putting our entire tournament on the line - not that that is a huge issue anyway. It's mathematically a +EV move to shove here quite a lot of the time.

OK, maybe so, but I'd like to see the math or at least get some idea of what your ranges are for Villain...And shoving would be for 65% of your stack and losing would leave you with an M of 5 and 10ish BB's...Not exactly looking good for the long haul. There have to be better spots coming around within an orbit or two.My nitty assessment:K7 is a borderline hand, putting you at around 55% to win against a random hand. Put the Villain on a wide range, say any PP, any A, any 2 Broadway and maybe even a few suited connectors down low, which is to say around 50% of the top hands. Take into account the fact he isn't shoving, which he might do with a weakish hand around the middle to low area of the range, and I think this ends up making you a dog in this hand.Can you make him fold? Who knows? But if people are calling down, for example, Mr Sparco with 73s in the Mill, I guess anything can happen.It just seems like too much effort and not enough reward to shove at this point. Lol if you will, Mr Tehtoe, but a little more elaboration would be welcome.

[HighwayStar 8]

I found the break even point at opening 18% and calling off ATo+ A8s+ KQ 66+ 18% = 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+This sort of calculation is a bit blurred, there's probably a decent %age of hands he's just shoiving pre - altho maybe not in a $3.30.Also that 18% range isn't neccessarily the first 18% ofhands he opens here - it doesn't include 22-55 = hands you could def argue he is more likely to open than J9Also if he only calls off thoswe hands he's making a decent mistake but again its a 3.30 so it mightnt be too far off.

[Mercury69 3]

I found the break even point at opening 18% and calling off ATo+ A8s+ KQ 66+ 18% = 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,A9o+,KTo+,QTo+This sort of calculation is a bit blurred, there's probably a decent %age of hands he's just shoiving pre - altho maybe not in a $3.30.Also that 18% range isn't neccessarily the first 18% ofhands he opens here - it doesn't include 22-55 = hands you could def argue he is more likely to open than J9Also if he only calls off thoswe hands he's making a decent mistake but again its a 3.30 so it mightnt be too far off.

Thamnks, HS, every little bit helps me understand better.