Hero Call Or A Good Read?

[Sc00by 0]

If he's going to put more chips in the middle, why raise him and show strength. I mean shouldn't you look like you might be drawing too so that he will try and bluff almost all rivers if he's that kind of player? Then you can pile on the aggression and get "value" on the river.

The flush hits the turn. If I call I think it might look fishy.You say by raising Im showing strength, but I feel the opposite, I feel that by raising I am representing that I have an overpair or a mid-high flush...Basically I am TRYING to represent a hand that will be beat by another heart on the river.I really think that by smooth calling again I would be virtually turning my hand face up.

[looshle 6]

Don't open limp.Don't bet 80% of the pot into people with top pair top kicker with the intention of folding. You are completely taking away the value of your hand and turning it into 72o. If you are always bet/ folding your hand doesnt matter. You might as well do this with a whole bunch of hands.Check/calling 622hh flops and check raising a heart on the turn looks FISHIERDon't post hands where you know the answer to your question since they guy was bluffing. Yes you made a good read and the fact that he couldnt beat a pair of 8s should tell you that. If it doesn't then you really think you are alot better than you are.

[Tehtoe 3]

lol.I mean, minraising is like the strongest looking thing ever there. If you think the guy has nothing, why are you trying to rep a flush that could "be beat on the river?"It seems to be you're mostly just mashing buttons w/ incredibly flawed thought processes and convincing yourself you're playing pretty awesome. Also seems like you're trying to level people w/ those thought processes when they're just mashing buttons too.

[nutzzcase 0]

*waiting for Lurbz*

[HighwayStar 8]

*waiting for Lurbz*

pretty sure you're the only one

[Sc00by 0]

Don't open limp.Don't bet 80% of the pot into people with top pair top kicker with the intention of folding. You are completely taking away the value of your hand and turning it into 72o. If you are always bet/ folding your hand doesnt matter. You might as well do this with a whole bunch of hands.Check/calling 622hh flops and check raising a heart on the turn looks FISHIERDon't post hands where you know the answer to your question since they guy was bluffing. Yes you made a good read and the fact that he couldnt beat a pair of 8s should tell you that. If it doesn't then you really think you are alot better than you are.

I open limp with hands like A-J, A-Q suited in early position during low blinds. My reasoning being that I want to see a flop and if I raise and get re-raised then I am likely folding. If I limp and it gets raised I can call and control the pot size. It may not be conventional play but if we all play to the book then poker becomes a predictable game. Im out of position a lot of the time after the flop so keeping the pot low is very important.Another factor to the open limp in early position is that I limp with large pairs almost every time I am dealt them in early position. so this helps to set up a hand hopefully later in the tournament.I am not planning on bet/folding every time on the flop. I think I am committed versus the pre-flop raiser. In this instance he folds and its the older, more solid player in the blinds that practically puts me all in. If the younger LAG makes the play I think I am committed to the hand against him, as long as I dont feel he is super strong.I thought it was a good call yes, but you cannot just rule out another opinion. My pal was disgraced by my call and it surprised me, hence me opening myself up to get slaughtered by you people. Looking back now I give my pal a lot more credit for his opinion than I did at the time when my attitude was practically 'I was right, therefore it was good play'...I no longer subscribe to that view. I now realise it was a good read and at best a brave call. But over time I will only lose money making calls like this. This is of course playing poker by the book, and not by gut feel. Which a lot of live pros speak of as a massive part of their game.

[JSpencer 0]

I open limp with hands like A-J, A-Q suited in early position during low blinds. My reasoning being that I want to see a flop and if I raise and get re-raised then I am likely folding.

How that working out for you?

[looshle 6]

I open limp with hands like A-J, A-Q suited in early position during low blinds. My reasoning being that I want to see a flop and if I raise and get re-raised then I am likely folding. If I limp and it gets raised I can call and control the pot size. It may not be conventional play but if we all play to the book then poker becomes a predictable game. Im out of position a lot of the time after the flop so keeping the pot low is very important.Another factor to the open limp in early position is that I limp with large pairs almost every time I am dealt them in early position. so this helps to set up a hand hopefully later in the tournament.I am not planning on bet/folding every time on the flop. I think I am committed versus the pre-flop raiser. In this instance he folds and its the older, more solid player in the blinds that practically puts me all in. If the younger LAG makes the play I think I am committed to the hand against him, as long as I dont feel he is super strong.I thought it was a good call yes, but you cannot just rule out another opinion. My pal was disgraced by my call and it surprised me, hence me opening myself up to get slaughtered by you people. Looking back now I give my pal a lot more credit for his opinion than I did at the time when my attitude was practically 'I was right, therefore it was good play'...I no longer subscribe to that view. I now realise it was a good read and at best a brave call. But over time I will only lose money making calls like this. This is of course playing poker by the book, and not by gut feel. Which a lot of live pros speak of as a massive part of their game.

A lot of live pros do terrible things which are negated by soft fields and sponsorships. Open limping is bad. None of your thought processes are gonna change that so stop doing it.

[MaxStPolish 4]

FYI-after the initial flames, people are starting to give you some solid critiques here, at some point you may wish to actually take in some of what they are saying vs. just relentless defending your play. By doing that, it sure looks like this is a BRAG POST.....otherwise you'd happily be looking through other lenses to try and reassess the situation(s).Merry ****ing christmas.

[Ko8e34 0]

It seems to be you're mostly just mashing buttons

This was a live tournament, Tyler.

[Tehtoe 3]

This was a live tournament, Tyler.

It's a saying, Brandon.

[MaxStPolish 4]

This was a live tournament, Tyler.

The man is entitled to his opinion, jerkwad :)Except this tourney was on the other side of the pond....so i think he was "mutton mashing".

[nutzzcase 0]

pretty sure you're the only one

meh....he's a entertaining troll (well sometimes....)

[Sc00by 0]

lol.I mean, minraising is like the strongest looking thing ever there. If you think the guy has nothing, why are you trying to rep a flush that could "be beat on the river?"

Its 1350 more, into a pot now worth 5500 or so. Im hoping he has Ace heart or King of hearts in his hand in which case I doubt hes folding.I dont think the guy has nothing, not yet, I think its possible, but I dont know. I only know hes got nothing when he passes to the re-raise. Which is obvious of course.

It seems to be you're mostly just mashing buttons w/ incredibly flawed thought processes and convincing yourself you're playing pretty awesome. Also seems like you're trying to level people w/ those thought processes when they're just mashing buttons too.

Not exactly sure what all that means...w/? mashing buttons?I think you are saying I dont really know what I am doing but Im talking myself into thinking Im doing the right thing? Also other people dont really know what they are doing either and we are all just chatting rubbish?If thats not what that means I apologise, Im not down with which-ever language that is so I had to summise what I could.If that is what you meant, here is my reply:I never claimed to be the best player thats ever played. As Ive stated already my thought process may be flawed, all I can do is explain how I was thinking during the hand. And why I played it the way I did.You may not believe me but I am taking on board everyones opinion on how I should have played the hands. And hopefully learning something.

[Sc00by 0]

FYI-after the initial flames, people are starting to give you some solid critiques here, at some point you may wish to actually take in some of what they are saying vs. just relentless defending your play. By doing that, it sure looks like this is a BRAG POST.....otherwise you'd happily be looking through other lenses to try and reassess the situation(s).Merry ****ing christmas.

Quite true, and believe me I am taking it in, Ive changed my mind already about the way I played in a couple of spots.Defending my play, yea I think I am guilty of that here. Perhaps just a natural reaction after the initial negativity and I feel now that some of the critique may be because of the thoughts that my motives were not as people liked, and maybe not because I played so badly(in some spots).I realise that min raising on the turn with the full house was showing strength, I didnt want to make it any more because I dont want to scare off a customer and if I just call I am convinced that I might as well just write on my forehead "I have you crushed"

[looshle 6]

Quite true, and believe me I am taking it in, Ive changed my mind already about the way I played in a couple of spots.Defending my play, yea I think I am guilty of that here. Perhaps just a natural reaction after the initial negativity and I feel now that some of the critique may be because of the thoughts that my motives were not as people liked, and maybe not because I played so badly(in some spots).I realise that min raising on the turn with the full house was showing strength, I didnt want to make it any more because I dont want to scare off a customer and if I just call I am convinced that I might as well just write on my forehead "I have you crushed"

I dont understand how you think raising looks weaker than just calling the turn with the 66 hand. It literally makes 0 sense.Check/call flop, check/minraise turn its the fishiest play in NLHE and its where most people start at. It's the first level of thinking which is not a level of thinknig that is going to be profitable in poker

[Naismith 0]

I dont understand how you think raising looks weaker than just calling the turn with the 66 hand. It literally makes 0 sense.Check/call flop, check/minraise turn its the fishiest play in NLHE and its where most people start at. It's the first level of thinking which is not a level of thinknig that is going to be profitable in poker

Also, if you're planning on raising that turn, there aren't many hands that call a minraise that won't call a real raise.

[Sc00by 0]

I dont understand how you think raising looks weaker than just calling the turn with the 66 hand. It literally makes 0 sense.Check/call flop, check/minraise turn its the fishiest play in NLHE and its where most people start at. It's the first level of thinking which is not a level of thinknig that is going to be profitable in poker

Is it only me that sees the irony in this post?First you said you dont see how raising looks weaker than calling, then you say my play is elementary level?The hands I would smooth call with here: Nut Flush, Full House, Absolutely nothing but a draw.The hands I would raise: All sorts of pairs in the hole, A smaller flush, or a plain bluff...All of these hands are possible to lay down on the next street if a 4th heart hits.By raising I am trying to make it look like I am betting to protect my hand, why would I protect the relative nuts?My play might not be the best here, I am not saying it is, I welcome your opinion, I know it may look like I am arguing to defend my play as perfect when I honestly am not, I am just trying to explain my thought process.

[Naismith 0]

Is it only me that sees the irony in this post?First you said you dont see how raising looks weaker than calling, then you say my play is elementary level?The hands I would smooth call with here: Nut Flush, Full House, Absolutely nothing but a draw.The hands I would raise: All sorts of pairs in the hole, A smaller flush, or a plain bluff...All of these hands are possible to lay down on the next street if a 4th heart hits.By raising I am trying to make it look like I am betting to protect my hand, why would I protect the relative nuts?My play might not be the best here, I am not saying it is, I welcome your opinion, I know it may look like I am arguing to defend my play as perfect when I honestly am not, I am just trying to explain my thought process.

It's fairly evident that you don't welcome his opinion.He wasn't saying your play was elementary level. He was saying it's the standard way new fish play monsters.

[Sc00by 0]

Also, if you're planning on raising that turn, there aren't many hands that call a minraise that won't call a real raise.

This is a very good point.Ace(hearts) calls a bigger raise, maybe even a King(hearts) too.Overpair calls a bigger raise(debatable, but I think this guy calls)If he has nothing at all, which I am suspecting but cannot be sure at this point, does he call any raise at all to bluff the river if a 4th heart hits?...If he does is he more likely to call a min raise or a standard raise?

[Sc00by 0]

He wasn't saying your play was elementary level. He was saying it's the standard way new fish play monsters.

Thats the same thing, just re-worded.

[Naismith 0]

Thats the same thing, just re-worded.

Okay, then, why were you acting like what he said was contradictory? He was saying your play showed tremendous strength as opposed to calling, which would not look as strong. You responded to that with:"Is it only me that sees the irony in this post?First you said you dont see how raising looks weaker than calling, then you say my play is elementary level?"

[Sc00by 0]

Okay, then, why were you acting like what he said was contradictory? He was saying your play showed tremendous strength as opposed to calling, which would not look as strong. You responded to that with:"Is it only me that sees the irony in this post?First you said you dont see how raising looks weaker than calling, then you say my play is elementary level?"

In black and white, elementary level thinking, raising looks stronger than calling.In elementary level thinking, calling is weak, raising is strong.Once you move up a couple of levels in thought process. Calling can be incredible strength, and raising can be equally weak.That was the point I was trying to make.In this case hes saying he doesnt understand how calling can be seen as stronger than raising. Then hes saying my play was elementary. THAT is where I find the post ironic.In any case, the arguement is all rather pedantic. Whether my thinking is so basic that Im playing ABC poker or whether its more advanced and looking at a way to try to trick the opponent into making a big play at the pot.

[Tehtoe 3]

In black and white, elementary level thinking, raising looks stronger than calling.In elementary level thinking, calling is weak, raising is strong.Once you move up a couple of levels in thought process. Calling can be incredible strength, and raising can be equally weak.That was the point I was trying to make.In this case hes saying he doesnt understand how calling can be seen as stronger than raising. Then hes saying my play was elementary.

lol I'm FAIRLY certain that looshle (and most other posters itt) are capable of thinking on way higher levels than you based on your posts.The other problem being that you're playing against people w/o a clue, and thus you aren't really on a high level of thinking!

[looshle 6]

I promise you that you don't check call the flop with 99 and check raise the turn with it. You are just randomly saying you do so that you can defend your play. You can represent a lot of weak pairs and big cards with a heart by just calling the turn, you CANT do that by check raising the turn. You're clearly jsut going to say anything you need to to defend your plays so there's really no point in arguing. Yea you're right you are representing TT here by check/calling and check raising the turn when the flush gets there. I'd prob 3 bet jam you with nothing all the time bc your hand looks so WEAK! People who limp call AJ suited and bet/fold top pair into the raiser DO NOT PLAY POCKET PAITS LIEK THAT ON THAT BOARD. YOU JUST DONT AND YOU KNOW IT SO STOP ITedit: if you do, you are terrible. so pick your poison. if you are going to "protect" a pair you are going to do it on the flop, you arent going to wait till the flush gets there and then raise. Cmon brah