Milton 0 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Playing the 6-max $22 deepstack on Stars yesterday when the following hand came about.Only had been at the same table as the villain for 15-20 hands. In that time span, I never saw his cards in a showdown. However, he did make 4 open raises preflop, 1 4x raises, 2 5x raises, and 1 6x raise. Yes, all OPEN raises, no limpers. On the 6-x raise, everyone folded preflop and he showed KQ offsuit.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 22 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (Button) (t7480)SB (t15577)BB (t9378)UTG (t18260)Villain (MP) (t69436)CO (t43425)Hero's M: 24.93Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 91 fold, Villain calls t200, 1 fold, Hero bets t700, 2 folds, Villain calls t500Flop: (t1700) 2, 6, 4(2 players)Villain bets t800, Hero ?Haven't really seen the Villain play enough hands postflop to have any idea what he's doing. The donkbet tells me he's got something and I think a raise is really in order, but what is a good size in this scenario?One of the main ideas that crossed my mind was shoving. And I'm curious to see what the thoughts are on that. Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 I think shoving is a little over the top but probably not terrible. In a heads up pot I'll usually call here (as I will with most of the rest of my range) and play pretty passively for the rest of the hand - trying to get to showdown cheaply. Generally I won't fold to many turn/river combosI think shoving or raise/calling it off is ok. If you raise, make it 2200.edit - If you don't think you'll feel comfortable playing later streets then definitely get more money in on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 i almost wanna say minraise or micro raise to put some money in the middle but not blow this pot up too big with our hand. and it may force villain to slow down on the turn if he calls. Link to post Share on other sites
kodkid 0 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Villian has a HUGE chip stack. given the fact that he didn't raise PF I am pretty sure he doesn't have a premium hand. However, he probably has overs or a drawing hand or something like that, I would not let him see them cheaply. He C-bet 800 into a 1500 pot which is only 1% of his stack. He probably just wanted to see if he could take it away cheaply. He might even have hit the board. I would shove in that instance, take that pot down quickly and not let him see another card. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 I raise more pre - once a limper is in I throw away my 2.5x open rule for late stage play and revert to 3x + 1 BB per limper, so I make it at least 800. Maybe even higher since my hand is vulnerable to lots of flops.On the flop, this is a very similar spot to the other hand recently posted (99 overpair on rags flop, shallowish stacks). Because you will hate so many turn cards, and villain has so many draws in his range, I raise. At this point, if you raise the pot is 3300 plus your raise amount, and you would have 5900 behind to raise with. I think I just stick it in. I don't hate Highway's 2200 idea, if you do that you either snap his 3bet flop shove, or call/shove any turn. Link to post Share on other sites
Fade2241 0 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 shove here too, take the big stack to valuetown. Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Unzip your fly, unleash Snakey, start stroking and shove your chips in with your other hand at the same time. Link to post Share on other sites
JSpencer 0 Posted April 14, 2010 Share Posted April 14, 2010 Unzip your fly, unleash Snakey, start stroking and shove your chips in with your other hand at the same time.^ winner Link to post Share on other sites
Milton 0 Posted April 15, 2010 Author Share Posted April 15, 2010 I had been 2.5x raising and adding 1x for each limper, so I wanted to keep consistent. My logic for not boosting it more is knowing the guy probably had a weak hand because of the limp. Figured I could see a flop, c-bet and take it down or slow down and try see a showdown.However, this happened to be a 4s6s instacall. Usually, I only see leads like this with pair/draw combos or 2 overs and a flush draw and I didn't peg him as the type to play a set this way. So impossible to give him credit for 2 pair.Thanks for the reinforcement of what, in this instance, turned out to be play. I shoved figuring I could get a huge range of worse hands to call and knew that almost every single potential turn card leaves me wondering if my hand was still good. My stack size did play a role in my shoving too.However, let's say instead of having 6k left to shove on the turn, what are your thoughts on if I have, say, 15k? Do I even bother building a pot on the flop, or is it better to just flat and save a raise for the turn assuming it looks safe? Link to post Share on other sites
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