The Ongoing Melodrama Of Victims And Oppressors

[Zealous Donkey 0]

http://article.nationalreview.com/430656/t...or-davis-hansonThe is a simple but to the point article on how much responsibility the govt should have to make right other peoples poor decisions. Actually it is more accurate to ask how much should the government punish productive and responsible citizens in order to enable those who make chronically poor decisions.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

[LongLiveYorke 38]

http://article.nationalreview.com/430656/t...or-davis-hanson

This "article" reads like something posted on an internet forum. He does do a good job of using excessive generalities, strawmen arguments, and avoiding any specific talk of policy or solutions. Way to take a stand, author.

Actually it is more accurate to ask how much should the government punish productive and responsible citizens in order to enable those who make chronically poor decisions.

I think it would be a mistake to characterize the less fortunate as those who "chronically make poor decisions." Our fates aren't merely the sum of our individual choices

[Zealous Donkey 0]

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

I don't have any problem with this, I have a problem dealing blackjack to people every week who don't have jobs. Actual conversation between a gal I was dealing blackjack to and my floor supervisor. The girl was an ex-employee. Blackjack Player Female mid 20s: Hi how ya been?My supervisor: Good. How have you been. Player: Ok. Supervisor: What are you dong these days?Player: Nothing, I have kids. Supervisor: Really? We have a few openings here.Player: Nah, I have my kids I need to be with. (laughing, "I don't want to have to look at you guys everyday") She had been in casino at least 12 hours over last two days. And been in the previous week.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

This "article" reads like something posted on an internet forum. He does do a good job of using excessive generalities, strawmen arguments, and avoiding any specific talk of policy or solutions. Way to take a stand, author.I think it would be a mistake to characterize the less fortunate as those who "chronically make poor decisions." Our fates aren't merely the sum of our individual choices

Yet, you respect policy/solutions that have spent hundreds of billions of dollars yet haven't solved the problems they were supposed to solve. In fact the amount of money needed to sustain these programs has to be increased every year. Less fortunatle my ass!! You and Bob both know thats not who I am talking about, nor does that make up the largest part of those sucking at the government tit.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Yet, you respect policy/solutions that have spent hundreds of billions of dollars yet haven't solved the problems they were supposed to solve. In fact the amount of money needed to sustain these programs has to be increased every year.

I'm not sure what programs you're referring to, or what problems those programs are supposed to "solve."

Less fortunatle my ass!! You and Bob both know thats not who I am talking about, nor does that make up the largest part of those sucking at the government tit.

I'm not sure that I and Bob both know this. I'm not sure that it's true. I'm not even sure that it's a well defined quantity.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

I'm not sure what programs you're referring to, or what problems those programs are supposed to "solve."

Well, an education system that doesn't educate. Urban renewal programs that don't renew urban areas, and antipoverty programs that don't move people out of poverty.

I'm not sure that I and Bob both know this. I'm not sure that it's true. I'm not even sure that it's a well defined quantity.

Fair enough, Maybe you can help me by defining what you mean by less fortunate.

[CaneBrain 95]

I don't have any problem with this, I have a problem dealing blackjack to people every week who don't have jobs. Actual conversation between a gal I was dealing blackjack to and my floor supervisor. The girl was an ex-employee. Blackjack Player Female mid 20s: Hi how ya been?My supervisor: Good. How have you been. Player: Ok. Supervisor: What are you dong these days?Player: Nothing, I have kids. Supervisor: Really? We have a few openings here.Player: Nah, I have my kids I need to be with. (laughing, "I don't want to have to look at you guys everyday") She had been in casino at least 12 hours over last two days. And been in the previous week.

if you base your politics on people you interact with that piss you off, then you will end up with some weird politics.I live in Miami, so my radical policy would be to not let people of Hispanic birth drive a vehicle. EVER.

[Jeepster80125 0]

if you base your politics on people you interact with that piss you off, then you will end up with some weird politics.I live in Miami, so my radical policy would be to not let people of Hispanic birth drive a vehicle. EVER.

[akoff 0]

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

do you mean to say that all we have to do is take care of the old and the young...you mean the others should, like get a real job...and pay the bills with money earned...and if they screw up and over extend and borrow to much money...they lose it...almost like being accountable for their actions. Sounds good to me.Damn old and young are cheap. lets go back to just helping them. we will have smaller budget problems then.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

if you base your politics on people you interact with that piss you off, then you will end up with some weird politics.I live in Miami, so my radical policy would be to not let people of Hispanic birth drive a vehicle. EVER.

LOL! yes I guess you have a point. In my case, it isn't that I didn't like the person. Actually they are quite pleasant, something that is very welcome in my line of work. It is just that ever increasing self centered mind set that drives me crazy.

[hblask 1]

I think it would be a mistake to characterize the less fortunate as those who "chronically make poor decisions." Our fates aren't merely the sum of our individual choices

For at least 98% of adults, they are. I can think of very few people in life who do not have the life they deserve. I know several people who were dealt extremely harsh blows in their life but continued to come back, again and again.Is it possible to have a string of bad luck? Yes. Does it occur often enough to warrant a federal bureaucracy? Not even close.

[CaneBrain 95]

For at least 98% of adults, they are. I can think of very few people in life who do not have the life they deserve. I know several people who were dealt extremely harsh blows in their life but continued to come back, again and again.Is it possible to have a string of bad luck? Yes. Does it occur often enough to warrant a federal bureaucracy? Not even close.

I disagree with this entirely. Pretty much every student my wife works with starts behind the eight ball.....paying for the sins of their parents. It's one thing to get dealt a harsh blow; it's another to start with little to no hope.

[hblask 1]

I disagree with this entirely. Pretty much every student my wife works with starts behind the eight ball.....paying for the sins of their parents. It's one thing to get dealt a harsh blow; it's another to start with little to no hope.

So then what is holding them back other than their own decisions? My dad hated education and used to yell at me for studying math, saying it was useless. Should I have given up?

[SweetDee 0]

I disagree with this entirely. Pretty much every student my wife works with starts behind the eight ball.....paying for the sins of their parents. It's one thing to get dealt a harsh blow; it's another to start with little to no hope.

Unless your wife works with more than 2% of all students this doesn't really dis-prove his point. If I worked with exclusively people covered in shit my view on the cleanliness of people would be a bit skewed.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

do you mean to say that all we have to do is take care of the old and the young...you mean the others should, like get a real job...and pay the bills with money earned...and if they screw up and over extend and borrow to much money...they lose it...almost like being accountable for their actions. Sounds good to me.Damn old and young are cheap. lets go back to just helping them. we will have smaller budget problems then.

The old are nothing like cheap. Social Security and Medicare make up more than 50% of the US budget, are getting more expensive and consuming more of the budget each year, and are going broke nevertheless. Welfare is a fraction of 1%. Caring for the poor (most of whom actually ARE children) costs us virtually nothing. We are going broke caring for the old.

[jmkiser 0]

Less fortunatle my ass!! You and Bob both know thats not who I am talking about, nor does that make up the largest part of those sucking at the government tit.

(another wall of text post)For a government "tit" program such as unemployment, how do we do it differently? My current roommates are the horrible example of people living off the "tit" as you call it. They were hard-working normal guys and were laid off for legitimate circumstances out of their control. This, of course, led them to unemployment. At the beginning, they were all very interested in finding new jobs and getting back on their feet. After awhile of barely even trying, they eventually got to the point of not trying at all. The X360 and World of Warcraft are currently their lives now and they live off of unemployment. This recent extension, though, is their last. The "tit" does not provide forever... actually, not more then a year or so (which was more time then they deserved).The biggest problem I have with unemployment in our area is that the government doesn't have a decent plan to make sure that people really are trying to find new jobs. All they have to do is throw out a lame application online to Walmart, say they talked to some supervisor named Bob, and that their application is "pending". What other ways do people lazily live off the government other then welfare? In my own life, everyone I know that is provided food stamps genuinely needs them. They work hard, but barely scratch the surface at supporting their family. They certainly don't own any flat screen TVs or other nice things. People sell that stuff off on Craigslist for a little extra needed cash.Money was falling off the trees 15, maybe even 10 years ago. The times are much more difficult now and I don't know how a lot of people would make it out where I live without government support. Taxes are high and decent jobs are very very hard to come by. Companies out here take advantae of this fact, too. No one gets full time work and no one gets benefits. What's even more sad is that even with the ability to have 100 applicants for a shitty job (and being able to pick the best possible candidates), there still isn't enough business to keep them afloat. The local Circuit City is abandoned. The video stores are abandoned. The idea of starting your own local business is a joke.One sick positive in my area is that every little store wants your business. The owner behind the counter at the Fastrip is very friendly and gives me random free 64 ounce sodas. I'll always fill up at his gas station and spend more at his establishment now. Five years ago, the random clerks and fast food employees could care less about who I was or if I ever came back (which I'm sure will be true if our country ever reaches "prosperity" again).

[85suited 0]

(another wall of text post)What other ways do people lazily live off the government other then welfare? In my own life, everyone I know that is provided food stamps genuinely needs them. They work hard, but barely scratch the surface at supporting their family. They certainly don't own any flat screen TVs or other nice things. People sell that stuff off on Craigslist for a little extra needed cash.

Drive thru one of the chicago housing authorities housing projects and see a lot of homes having Directv. The CHA doesn't have a deal with Directv..When we were "poor" we had rabbit earsI play basketball at a gym close by, and amazing how most players are wearing $100+ plus shoes...and my personal favorite - smoking the $9 pack of cigarettes after hoopingAmerica's Poor Don't Know Poor -

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I don't have any problem with this, I have a problem dealing blackjack to people every week who don't have jobs. Actual conversation between a gal I was dealing blackjack to and my floor supervisor. The girl was an ex-employee. Blackjack Player Female mid 20s: Hi how ya been?My supervisor: Good. How have you been. Player: Ok. Supervisor: What are you dong these days?Player: Nothing, I have kids. Supervisor: Really? We have a few openings here.Player: Nah, I have my kids I need to be with. (laughing, "I don't want to have to look at you guys everyday") She had been in casino at least 12 hours over last two days. And been in the previous week.

That you're a black jack dealer at a casino explains alot to me, w/r/t your world view. I can't imagine seeing a lower slice of humanity than day time week day low limit black jack.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Damn old and young are cheap. lets go back to just helping them. we will have smaller budget problems then.

The young and old are most certainly not cheap. the young are a kind of a sunk cost, but we throw away 100's of billions of medical care for the last 2 years of people's lives. I'm not saying there's much we can do about this, if we are going to be humane to old people, but the cost of their medical care is a huge societal burden.

The old are nothing like cheap. Social Security and Medicare make up more than 50% of the US budget, are getting more expensive and consuming more of the budget each year, and are going broke nevertheless. Welfare is a fraction of 1%. Caring for the poor (most of whom actually ARE children) costs us virtually nothing. We are going broke caring for the old.

Or I could have just ditto'd this.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Drive thru one of the chicago housing authorities housing projects and see a lot of homes having Directv. The CHA doesn't have a deal with Directv..

In defense of america's poor, Directv is incredibly affordable these days.

[85suited 0]

In defense of america's poor, Directv is incredibly affordable these days.

Thank you for making my point - America's Poor have Directv

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Thank you for making my point - America's Poor have Directv

thank you for missing mine.