10nl: Overpair Line Check

[jmbreslin 0]

Rush, no reads. Do you play this any differently?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (BB) ($10)UTG ($11.40)UTG+1 ($10)MP1 ($35.47)MP2 ($16.94)MP3 ($6.25)CO ($6.17)Button ($5.30)SB ($3.60)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J1 fold, UTG+1 bets $0.20, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.20, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.65Flop: ($1.95) 8, 8, 9(2 players)Hero bets $1.30, MP2 calls $1.30Turn: ($4.55) 5(2 players)Hero bets $3.15, MP2 raises to $8, Hero foldsTotal pot: $10.85 | Rake: $0.72

[mtdesmoines 3]

Blech. ...... ..... ..... I suppose.

[rrumsey 0]

i wanna bet smaller on the turn to be honest, like 2.75

[jmbreslin 0]

i wanna bet smaller on the turn to be honest, like 2.75

Why? Board is pretty drawy, no?

[rrumsey 0]

Why? Board is pretty drawy, no?

but i think it gets the same thing done thou to be honest, v's 3 bet call range is pretty strong to be honest, so it is a mediumly thin vbet, so just small ball it a bit is my idea bc people tend to fold lots of turns in rush, so smaller we get by doing that the better. just my experience thou.

[Milton 0]

I've only played rush a couple of times, so forgive me if you disagree with my analysis of this one.How many 89's 78's 67's are really in his range calling a preflop reraised pot?That leaves you with A8, 99, 88, and 55 as the major hands crushing you, of which only 88 and 99 are likely. QQ-AA are usually going to put in a raise here, no? I've been playing a lot of tournaments, so my cash game play is rusty.You have to remember that some guys are skeptics of other people's lines, and perhaps yours screams "FOLD!" to him, leading him to think he can steal with just a flush draw.EDIT: Not to mention T9, J9, A9 thinking his one pair is good.

[trystero 0]

this looks like QQ, but I cannot fold w/those pot odds because I think he'd play TT like this, too, and he can have some random draws/hands.

[BaseJester 1]

I think you're priced in.

[Milton 0]

I think you're priced in.

That's basically what I was driving at. I think he shows up with enough hands that we have beat. Not saying we're good an overwhelming number of times, but I still think it's enough to call.

[BaseJester 1]

That's basically what I was driving at. I think he shows up with enough hands that we have beat. Not saying we're good an overwhelming number of times, but I still think it's enough to call.

Yeah, I agree. We're getting 3:1 to see the river. There are all the hands we're actually ahead of like you note; plus we're not drawing totally dead when we're behind (other than 88). We have 4 outs against a straight.

[jmbreslin 0]

It's possible I priced myself in with my bet sizing but I have a hard time believing that I'm not beaten. This line of call, call, push-raise turn is a typical strength move for micro players. In an unknown player I would expect him to either call down or raise the flop with a hand like TT.Calling the turn means I'm stacking off on the turn with a JJ overpair for 100BB, which just seems -ev without a read.

[trystero 0]

What can I say.....this is 10nl. You're giving guys credit who don't deserve it. Didn't you see the hand I posted for your benefit a few days ago, where I had QQ on a TT9 board, 3-bet pot, villain had donkbet otf and then check-raised allin on a blank turn w/K3. Not JJ, not 99, not T9, not KK, not even AK, king three. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. CALL. S TOP FOLDING.FA.FLJAKJRF32I0 JEFKASjFORumTtiltttttTTTTRIOARROARAGE.

[jmbreslin 0]

I realize that kind of stuff happens but I do think it is the exception rather than the rule. Getting into the habit of stacking off in these spots because it's 10NL and they don't know what they're doing is likely going to be an expensive habit.

[Ninja Ace 1]

Marginal either way, I lean towards foldedt: you know what, it's not that marginal, this is a really easy foldalso, bet sizing looks good imo

[trystero 0]

Jester says we're getting 3-1 here so we need 25% equity to breakeven. Against big draws (AsKs/AsQs/AsJs) and 99/88/98/55/qq/tt/jj ONLY we're about 32%. 98 is pretty ridiculous but w/e. Add 87o/87s too and we're 26%. It's hard for you to have less than 25% equity in this spot especially when you also consider that he can be spazzing out w/a worse hand like 77 or even AKo. I cannot fathom folding.

[IBFT 0]

Without any reads, I would struggle to find a hand that I feel we're getting 3 streets of value from (that we're actually, you know, ahead of). My standard, admittedly nitty line, is to check the turn, and then get an additional street of value on the river. (also, I'm smart enough to hit my jack on the river and avoid crappy spots like this)I don't completely hate the fold. Donks usually wake up on the turn, and one of the straight draws got there. However, it is 10NL, and I don't think I could beat 10NL because I'd never be folding a pair, let alone an overpair, to anyone there.One weird thing is he thought out the $8 bet? Instead of just shoving? That's a little weird. Good fold.edit: One question: Was the preflop 3-bet manual sizing or pot button? Given the fact that you're OOP, there are 2 players, and its 10nl (I hate to keep saying that, but the truth is, more people are going to call your pfrs at 10NL, so you might as well make them larger with your strong hands, since you will never be exploited), I would probably make it a little bigger (that's what she said). If it IS the pot button, I'd press pot and then go up 2 clicks. If its not the pot button, pot it +2 clicks.

[KingJames 11]

What can I say.....this is 10nl. You're giving guys credit who don't deserve it. Didn't you see the hand I posted for your benefit a few days ago, where I had QQ on a TT9 board, 3-bet pot, villain had donkbet otf and then check-raised allin on a blank turn w/K3. Not JJ, not 99, not T9, not KK, not even AK, king three. THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. CALL. S TOP FOLDING.FA.FLJAKJRF32I0 JEFKASjFORumTtiltttttTTTTRIOARROARAGE.

epic rant imo

[jmbreslin 0]

edit: One question: Was the preflop 3-bet manual sizing or pot button? Given the fact that you're OOP, there are 2 players, and its 10nl (I hate to keep saying that, but the truth is, more people are going to call your pfrs at 10NL, so you might as well make them larger with your strong hands, since you will never be exploited), I would probably make it a little bigger (that's what she said). If it IS the pot button, I'd press pot and then go up 2 clicks. If its not the pot button, pot it +2 clicks.

I probably potted it but you're right, it could have used a little extra.

[Ninja Ace 1]

Jester says we're getting 3-1 here so we need 25% equity to breakeven. Against big draws (AsKs/AsQs/AsJs) and 99/88/98/55/qq/tt/jj ONLY we're about 32%. 98 is pretty ridiculous but w/e. Add 87o/87s too and we're 26%. It's hard for you to have less than 25% equity in this spot especially when you also consider that he can be spazzing out w/a worse hand like 77 or even AKo. I cannot fathom folding.

We don't have 25% equity here like ever... we're almost always drawing to the two jacks except when he shows up with TT. This is almost NEVER a big draw... people who are going to fast play big draws are going to do it on the flop. This is 7-6, 99, a random 8, or TT like always. Turn check-raises at a 2nd barrel are like the strongest move ever at the low limits

[KingJames 11]

We don't have 25% equity here like ever... we're almost always drawing to the two jacks except when he shows up with TT. This is almost NEVER a big draw... people who are going to fast play big draws are going to do it on the flop. This is 7-6, 99, a random 8, or TT like always. Turn check-raises at a 2nd barrel are like the strongest move ever at the low limits

[trystero 0]

Yea they are; too bad this isn't one.also, a turn c/r in a 3-bet pot means far, far less than it does otherwise. Because the pot's so large, players feel that they're committed by the turn so when they have a hand they feel has showdown value they'll just move all-in. Like yesterday I saw a hand between two regs: MP opens, calls a 3-bet from BTN. Flop came 553r. C/c. Turn a 8 and MP c/r a-i. oh noes must be 56 - btn better lay his kings down. Nah it was 88.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Yea they are; too bad this isn't one.also, a turn c/r in a 3-bet pot means far, far less than it does otherwise. Because the pot's so large, players feel that they're committed by the turn so when they have a hand they feel has showdown value they'll just move all-in. Like yesterday I saw a hand between two regs: MP opens, calls a 3-bet from BTN. Flop came 553r. C/c. Turn a 8 and MP c/r a-i. oh noes must be 56 - btn better lay his kings down. Nah it was 88.

Proper 3 betting PF with a bigger middle pair will put you in a lot of profitable spots on the turn

[jmbreslin 0]

Yea they are; too bad this isn't one.also, a turn c/r in a 3-bet pot means far, far less than it does otherwise. Because the pot's so large, players feel that they're committed by the turn so when they have a hand they feel has showdown value they'll just move all-in. Like yesterday I saw a hand between two regs: MP opens, calls a 3-bet from BTN. Flop came 553r. C/c. Turn a 8 and MP c/r a-i. oh noes must be 56 - btn better lay his kings down. Nah it was 88.

I don't think this represents typical play at 10NL.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Yea they are; too bad this isn't one.also, a turn c/r in a 3-bet pot means far, far less than it does otherwise. Because the pot's so large, players feel that they're committed by the turn so when they have a hand they feel has showdown value they'll just move all-in. Like yesterday I saw a hand between two regs: MP opens, calls a 3-bet from BTN. Flop came 553r. C/c. Turn a 8 and MP c/r a-i. oh noes must be 56 - btn better lay his kings down. Nah it was 88.

Ummm am I misunderstanding or doesn't that mean MP just turned teh nutz? Which would go against your point that the turn c/r isn't strength in a 3bet pot?

[trystero 0]

lol my fault...I meant the turn was a Q. Too early to be posting.edit: this hand https://www.pokertableratings.com/hand-hist...4413/6156779755