Mtt 100% Limping Pre Until 200/400blinds

[lurbz 2]

don't listen to these haters i won a freeroll once with your strategy

cause you're absolutely ****ing brilliant too right?

[donk4life 34]

don't listen to these haters i won a freeroll once with your strategy

[nutzzcase 0]

cause you're absolutely ****ing brilliant too right?

buy a new one

[HighwayStar 8]

It would be interesting to try limp/raising a largish range. It would be so tough to make work though.

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

Do you ever notice why the players that limp a lot and are extremely exploitable preflop are the players who generally lose money? I mean do you really expect people to take this post seriously? It's asinine to think that limping all "your hands you normally raise with" is actually going to work. What if you are trying to steal? Do you limp then? And if someone raises you preflop do you just dump your limped stealing hand? Yeah, that's going to maximize profit.

You say limping alot I'm not saying limp alot of hands I'm saying limp hands I would play (anypairs, Ak-A8s, all connectors givin your in position)haha really???? Why would you think limping 100% of my playable hand range pre until the 200/400level would involve stealing? I'm not looking to pick up the small and big blind early in the tourney it doesn't increase my stack enough.Depending on the raise and your hand strength determines if you should call or let it go.

[fighter 4]

I think limping could be a very profitable strategy. You 2+2 cardrunners robots can't even open your eyes to the possibilities. It is like extreme small ball. Since Small ball is the closest anyone has come to solving the game, It only makes sense to take it to the next level and solve the game. Limping is the key. Kepp your head up OP.

[Biff Goods 0]

I'm confused. Say you have 5 limpers and you get dealt KK in CO. You limp in behind them? Then say button makes it 5x to go and three of the limpers call....do you just call using your strategy?edit: before answering my questions you may want to take a look at my signature. I feel it is completely relevant to this thread.

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

I'm confused. Say you have 5 limpers and you get dealt KK in CO. You limp in behind them? Then say button makes it 5x to go and three of the limpers call....do you just call using your strategy?edit: before answering my questions you may want to take a look at my signature. I feel it is completely relevant to this thread.

What are the blinds and how deep are you playing? If you limp the K's then the button 5x's it with 3 callers its kinda obv there not going to fold to a shove (again depending how stacks and blinds are ) from you so wouldn't you rather play a flop maybe you'd flop bad and would be able to get away maybe you'd flop great who knows. (the situation you bring up needs some more info to have a logical reply) I wouldn't be looking to run my K's against 4 other players allin pre unless I'm short and blinds are big.

[lurbz 2]

I wouldn't be looking to run my K's against 4 other players allin pre unless I'm short and blinds are big.

you are terrible at poker

[spydur86 0]

What are the blinds and how deep are you playing? If you limp the K's then the button 5x's it with 3 callers its kinda obv there not going to fold to a shove (again depending how stacks and blinds are ) from you so wouldn't you rather play a flop maybe you'd flop bad and would be able to get away maybe you'd flop great who knows. (the situation you bring up needs some more info to have a logical reply) I wouldn't be looking to run my K's against 4 other players allin pre unless I'm short and blinds are big.

I think the biggest problem with that is you'd never know what's a "great" flop for you the 7 out of 8 times that you miss your set. With 4 other people in the pot you're going to see a lot of ragged two pairs, sets, sometimes even straights and the like. You're never really going to know where you stand against 4 other hands especially when people are calling the preflop raise "had odds". You can't expect everyone you play against to only have good cards when there's a raise preflop. Wouldn't you rather get your money in 99% of the time as a favorite to the other 4 hands, as opposed to letting one of them hit a miracle flop when they really shouldn't even be in the hand? Not to mention you're going to be behind a huge amount of the time anytime an Ace falls whereas if you're heads up you can test the waters a bit more. I just don't see how this strategy is going to work if you're relying on hitting miracle flops against multiple opponents all the time.I guess my main point is I feel like you're going to be folding a lot of premium hands on flops that don't suit you well when you know there's 5 people in the hand. The KK hand, for example, you play heads up or even against 2 opponents, flop comes clean and you're going to be a lot more willing to put your money in. But what do you do in a situation where the flop comes clean against 4 other people and there's a bet and a raise in front of you? Do you still feel as good about your hand?

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

you are terrible at poker

Ok so? I think you like to suck co.ck who cares

I guess my main point is I feel like you're going to be folding a lot of premium hands on flops that don't suit you well when you know there's 5 people in the hand. The KK hand, for example, you play heads up or even against 2 opponents, flop comes clean and you're going to be a lot more willing to put your money in. But what do you do in a situation where the flop comes clean against 4 other people and there's a bet and a raise in front of you? Do you still feel as good about your hand?

This is until the 200/400 50ante I think alot of people are missing that (I'll change it and say Until the 150-300 25 level)Yes I'm against risking alot to win a small pot with no antes and being as deepstacked as you are early in the Mtts I would much rather make my decisions on the flop. I have yet to hear a good argument why its a good thing to risking more chips preflop in the following levels10-20 15min levels 15-30 25-50 50-100 75-150 100-200 125-250 25150-300 25

[SuperJon 175]

Ok so? I think you like to suck co.ck who caresThis is until the 200/400 50ante I think alot of people are missing that (I'll change it and say Until the 150-300 25 level)Yes I'm against risking alot to win a small pot with no antes and being as deepstacked as you are early in the Mtts I would much rather make my decisions on the flop. I have yet to hear a good argument why its a good thing to risking more chips preflop in the following levels10-20 15min levels 15-30 25-50 50-100 75-150 100-200 125-250 25150-300 25

Play 500 or more tournaments using your strategy of never raising preflop until 200-400.Have a stack of 30 or more BBs by the time you reach the 200-400 level in at least 25% of the tournaments you play.If you can do that, I will personally suck your balls.

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

If you can do that, I will personally suck your balls.

be careful lurbz will take you up on that

[spydur86 0]

I just don't see why you wouldn't want to maximize value on your premium hands even at the lower levels? Isn't the point of huge hands in early levels to try to stack someone or at least win a big pot? I guess you could try to make a case for limping all suited connectors and pairs under QQ but I still feel like it's super -EV to be limp/calling huge hands preflop. If someone's willing to get it in preflop when you're an 80%ish favorite to win, why wouldn't you want that? If you run into AA or KK you suck it up to a cooler and start a new tourney. Same with if they suck out on you but the last thing you want to do is to give them a cheap way to hit a better flop than you and then in turn get your money in bad. Seems like you're just setting yourself up to let people outflop you. It's not really a suckout when you're letting them see the flop for as cheap as a limp, you're just asking to get your money in bad. Think about it this way, when you have a hand like KK or AA, you're probably only going to be able to get them all in on the flop if they have you beat (when you don't flop a set, that is). I guess you'll have the guys that call off with TPTK but in most situations it seems they're showing up with 2 pair or better if they're calling off. It'd be extremely uncomfortable for me to play poker in a way that I can't even begin to try to define a players hand until there's action on the flop. I just don't see it being profitable in the least. The main point is to maximize value on any hand you play, and you're giving up roughly 7 levels of doing that. Blegh, personally I hate it and could never fathom how it would come out to be a better option than just playing TAG through those levels.

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

Play 500 or more tournaments using your strategy of never raising preflop until 200-400.Have a stack of 30 or more BBs by the time you reach the 200-400 level in at least 25% of the tournaments you play.

You really think its that hard to build a 12k stake limping pre?

[nutzzcase 0]

what's easier winning a pot headsup or 5-handed? seriously dude there isn't a single winning player who uses that strategy.....

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

I just don't see why you wouldn't want to maximize value on your premium hands even at the lower levels? Isn't the point of huge hands in early levels to try to stack someone or at least win a big pot? I guess you could try to make a case for limping all suited connectors and pairs under QQ but I still feel like it's super -EV to be limp/calling huge hands preflop. If someone's willing to get it in preflop when you're an 80%ish favorite to win, why wouldn't you want that? If you run into AA or KK you suck it up to a cooler and start a new tourney. Same with if they suck out on you but the last thing you want to do is to give them a cheap way to hit a better flop than you and then in turn get your money in bad. Seems like you're just setting yourself up to let people outflop you. It's not really a suckout when you're letting them see the flop for as cheap as a limp, you're just asking to get your money in bad. Think about it this way, when you have a hand like KK or AA, you're probably only going to be able to get them all in on the flop if they have you beat (when you don't flop a set, that is). I guess you'll have the guys that call off with TPTK but in most situations it seems they're showing up with 2 pair or better if they're calling off. It'd be extremely uncomfortable for me to play poker in a way that I can't even begin to try to define a players hand until there's action on the flop. I just don't see it being profitable in the least. The main point is to maximize value on any hand you play, and you're giving up roughly 7 levels of doing that. Blegh, personally I hate it and could never fathom how it would come out to be a better option than just playing TAG through those levels.

Like I've said before if someone raises and you have a hand your going to see a flop with no matter what and your committing most of your chips pre yes you might as well get'em in and try to be heads up

[spydur86 0]

Like I've said before if someone raises and you have a hand your going to see a flop with no matter what and your committing most of your chips pre yes you might as well get'em in and try to be heads up

Yeah but you're refusing to address my point of maximizing the value on every hand you play, not just the hands where because of the given stacksizes shoving preflop is the only option.Let me try to put this differently. Like I said before, you should me maximizing value/minimizing losses every single time you play a hand. You're pretty much doing the exact opposite by using your proposed strategy. You're playing the same as everyone else by limping lots of hands in earlier levels and you're letting people get exactly what they want with bad to marginal holdings, which is seeing a flop for super cheap. How are you going to know where you stand at all on any given flop where there's 3 or more people involved? I mean are you folding any flop that you don't hit gin on? You're just begging to get into extremely bad situations with this strategy. If you do decide to test this theory, please don't post about how some guys 72os beat your Aces when realistically he should've never even been involved on the flop, had you done your job.

[lurbz 2]

try this for 300 tournaments, GL ever even cashing beyond a mincash.you're just a ****ing idiot, plain and simple, and i'm not the only one telling you this. i'm just the only one being blunt about it.just shut up and crawl in your hole till you figure out how to think coherently.

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

seriously dude there isn't a single winning player who uses that strategy.....

By winning player what do you mean ?I have 4997 Mtts on Pokerstars with a +Roi

Yeah but you're refusing to address my point of maximizing the value on every hand you play, not just the hands where because of the given stacksizes shoving preflop is the only option.

I'm being 100% honest when I say I don't see the advantage raising Vs. limping pre when your going to facing the same number of players Postflop early in a tourney.

[Brian Aka Brian 0]

try this for 300 tournaments, GL ever even cashing beyond a mincash.you're just a ****ing idiot, plain and simple, and i'm not the only one telling you this. i'm just the only one being blunt about it.just shut up and crawl in your hole till you figure out how to think coherently.

think I might of offended you with the co.cksucking comment. If so I'll take it back

[spydur86 0]

Okay, let me try to explain this, then.Limping preflop = no chance of getting any players out with marginal or bad hands. (Let me make an addendum to this, yes, you want people to call you with bad hands when you have a premium, but the more people that are in with bad hands the less likely you are to win, so really with a top pair you probably just want 1 or 2 people to see the flop with you.) It also means no bloating the pot when you're a favorite to win, even if it is just a slight favorite to win vs. multiple players. It also means not having any idea at all what your opponents are holding when you do see a flop. Most basic players are smart enough to fold bad cards, and even some marginal hands when faced with a bet and a raise, and most even with just a single bet.Raising = getting money into the pot when you most likely have the best hand. It may not be the best at the end, but you're still building a pot around the fact that you currently have the best hand and that you're almost guaranteed to be getting your money in good. Even if just 1 player out of 4 limpers folds to your raise, you're still increasing your chance to win by a sufficient amount. Like I asked earlier, how are you planning on playing flops? Are you folding any hand you don't flop gin on when faced with a bet or raise? Against that many players you're just never going to know AT ALL where you are by limping every pot. You're going to get run over by guys who are going to find out what you're doing and exploit you. If they know that you're limping every single hand and folding most, they're going to be continuously betting into you, and some will be smart enough to figure out that you fold when you have a hand that's not worth playing, and if you raise them they get out unless they really think they're ahead. What stakes do you play that you honestly think people are going to view calling your bet and limping preflop in the same light? There's really no argument to be made for limping when in reality, as proven by an ungodly amount of winning players, that raising is infinitely better than limping if you have a hand worth seeing a flop with. There's just absolutely no disadvantage to building a pot with a hand you feel like playing and in the meantime getting bad hands to fold pre. So what if you waste a couple extra big blinds when the flop comes unfavorable, you're honestly going to be wasting more by limping every hand (on hands that you do win, because the pots not as big as it could've been.) This honestly seems like a scared player's tactic to me. I really am beginning to feel like you're telling yourself "Well, I'll just see the flop for cheap, even with huge hands, that way if I don't like I can just fold with minimal losses." If you can't understand the fact that those "minimal losses" add up with every flop you fold and your profit goes down with every pot that you don't take complete advantage of.... I guess there's really no way I can describe to you how bad of an idea this is.

[Milton 0]

I think you really have to consider many scenarios to really analyze the merit of this strategy.At tournaments with stakes of $10 and under, I really think that limping with JJ and under has some real value. A lot of times you'll get more value out of your hand on raggy boards. That being said, you're still better off even with a minraise for the sake of thinning the field of junk and building a pot. What you're missing out on value before the flop, you're gaining a lot after the flop. However, now you're not going to stack off a donk that is married to top pair with a hand like AT on a board of T52. Or say you flop a set on a board with an ace, and a guy is once again attached to his top pair. You're missing out necessary chips for later stages.At these same stakes, I still think raising with QQ-AA is an absolute must. People love pocket pairs, people love their big suited cards. Punish them for playing inferior hands.At any stakes greater than $10, this strategy is LOL, as guys are looking to play an even wider range of hands. They suspect that you are capable of making plays on them, and thus they'll go further with a hand that you have beat. Their play is easier to exploit before the flop, and so it makes more sense to raise preflop.I can understand wanting to play safe, but the fact of the matter is this strategy won't help you win tournaments, only survive them.

[Tehtoe 3]

No, really, this is incredibly retarded. gl ever having this work in mid-high stakes mtts.

[RakeMyBlind 0]

You really think its that hard to build a 12k stake limping pre?

Yes, who the f*ck wants to stake someone who limps until 200/400!Oh