Daemon10 0 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 At a live 1/2 game 200 max buy in I bought in for the full was about to about 780, effective stacks in play all have me covered, the one guy is utg the other is utg plus 1 and then co Im on the button. They are all fairly decent co has 1400 and is a semi pro I guess, he plays for a living and thats it. Were playing 6 handedAnyhow, its double straddled then a blind bet of 15, it goes call call call call fold fold I have 910d.Flop is 78A with two diamonds. 85 in the pot, It goes 90 from utg, utg plus 1 goes 300, and the CO thinks about it for like five mintues and makes it 988...So what am I supposed to do here???I mean, I am a favourite over a lot of hands, but is his bet strange just to make it 988 and leave only 422 back? Which means hes always dumping it on the turn.. and it wasnt enough to put the utg1 all in either because he started the hand with 1200 So I don't know how often if ever I am supposed to dump, even with all my draws...Is CO ever doing this with the Ax of Diamonds?? Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 At a live 1/2 game 200 max buy in I bought in for the full was about to about 780, effective stacks in play all have me covered, the one guy is utg the other is utg plus 1 and then co Im on the button. They are all fairly decent co has 1400 and is a semi pro I guess, he plays for a living and thats it. Were playing 6 handedAnyhow, its double straddled then a blind bet of 15, it goes call call call call fold fold I have 910d.Flop is 78A with two diamonds. 85 in the pot, It goes 90 from utg, utg plus 1 goes 300, and the CO thinks about it for like five mintues and makes it 988...So what am I supposed to do here???I mean, I am a favourite over a lot of hands, but is his bet strange just to make it 988 and leave only 422 back? Which means hes always dumping it on the turn.. and it wasnt enough to put the utg1 all in either because he started the hand with 1200 So I don't know how often if ever I am supposed to dump, even with all my draws...Is CO ever doing this with the Ax of Diamonds??I think this is a fold. You do have a monster draw, but with all that action, I think a few of your outs are dead. One of those guys pretty much has diamonds and maybe 2 of them do. You have 15 outs as it is. 6 to the nuts. I wouldnt feel comfortable stacking off here knowing there is a good chance Im crushed here. How good would you feel to get it all in and go up against a set and AJ of diamonds? Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 are the 7 and the 8 the two diamonds? probably still a fold anyways unless you know the all could be suicidial here, someones got a set, maybe 2 people, and some of our outs could easily be blocked. fold Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The proper move is to get up and cash out. Jesus christ don't play with 400bb effective stacks on the whole table with players you actually respect Link to post Share on other sites
dead money 1 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The proper move is to get up and cash out. Jesus christ don't play with 400bb effective stacks on the whole table with players you actually respectThis may be a whole in my game I never realized. What stack should you get up with? Ive been at 1/2 tables with $800 before. Is that really that big of a mistake? I never heard it before. Whats the cutoff? 300bb? 200bb? Link to post Share on other sites
Daemon10 0 Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 This may be a whole in my game I never realized. What stack should you get up with? Ive been at 1/2 tables with $800 before. Is that really that big of a mistake? I never heard it before. Whats the cutoff? 300bb? 200bb?Thats what I am wondering to, when should you leave?? like double up and run?? Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Thats what I am wondering to, when should you leave?? like double up and run??more chips the merrier if you still have an edge over people! lol! Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 This may be a whole in my game I never realized. What stack should you get up with? Ive been at 1/2 tables with $800 before. Is that really that big of a mistake? I never heard it before. Whats the cutoff? 300bb? 200bb?I was playing with 600 big blind effective stacks last night... but it wasn't against players I "respected" if you will. It's only a big mistake to play deep if a) you don't know how to play deep and/or B) the other players are better than you Link to post Share on other sites
BaseJester 1 Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The proper move is to get up and cash out. Jesus christ don't play with 400bb effective stacks on the whole table with players you actually respectWith the straddles and the blind bet, this isn't a deep game. But yes, if the other players are just better, then leave. Link to post Share on other sites
Daemon10 0 Posted March 21, 2010 Author Share Posted March 21, 2010 Ahh alright I get that lol, well thats for all the input guys Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 OK, first of all, we play in deep games like this - we never hit and run unless we are leaving town forever. My kingdom for a game that plays deep consistently. I don't get comfy until I've got about 300 - 500 BBs in front of me. Second, we never ever fold this unless we plan to quit poker. VS a set, you are 42% to win. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 OK, first of all, we play in deep games like this - we never hit and run unless we are leaving town forever. My kingdom for a game that plays deep consistently. I don't get comfy until I've got about 300 - 500 BBs in front of me. Second, we never ever fold this unless we plan to quit poker. VS a set, you are 42% to win.But I don't think UTG+1 is folding after flop action like this, and who knows, UTG might not be either.The problem is, it's very very very very likely we are up against a set and Ax of diamonds, which means we are ****ed two ways to Broadway. If we could be the one raising, then of course we want to push this hand. Since we have no FE and our draw is not as strong as it looks given the action, I fold. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 But I don't think UTG+1 is folding after flop action like this, and who knows, UTG might not be either.The problem is, it's very very very very likely we are up against a set and Ax of diamonds, which means we are ****ed two ways to Broadway. If we could be the one raising, then of course we want to push this hand. Since we have no FE and our draw is not as strong as it looks given the action, I fold.AdKc (whatever) is 3% to win vs. a set of 7s and our hand, the set of 7s is 52% to win vs us and an AK, so long as it's NOT AKdd / AQdd. However, vs suited ace of diamonds: AKdd is 18%, set of 7s is 55% and we're 26% to win.We're priced in with what the pot is laying us, provided we're not against AKdd / AQdd, we're in great shape. I'm gambling that we're not vs AKdd, and if we are, two diamonds are our outs.This is a complicated hand in many respects, but the opportunity to make this much $$$ in terms of BBs is kind of rare and I think it's worth exploding this pot. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 AdKc (whatever) is 3% to win vs. a set of 7s and our hand, the set of 7s is 52% to win vs us and an AK, so long as it's NOT AKdd / AQdd. However, vs suited ace of diamonds: AKdd is 18%, set of 7s is 55% and we're 26% to win.We're priced in with what the pot is laying us, provided we're not against AKdd / AQdd, we're in great shape. I'm gambling that we're not vs AKdd, and if we are, two diamonds are our outs.This is a complicated hand in many respects, but the opportunity to make this much $$$ in terms of BBs is kind of rare and I think it's worth exploding this pot.It doesn't have to be AQ or AKdd. Any Ax of diamonds will do. These players have to have SOMETHING to have this kind of action on the flop, and I would be truly shocked if at least one of them didnt have a better FD. I'm not playing a 400 bb pot when it's very possible I have 8 outs total, 6 of which are subject to redraws. If we had the initiative and some FE that'd be one thing, but we dont. not even close. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 It doesn't have to be AQ or AKdd. Any Ax of diamonds will do. These players have to have SOMETHING to have this kind of action on the flop, and I would be truly shocked if at least one of them didnt have a better FD. I'm not playing a 400 bb pot when it's very possible I have 8 outs total, 6 of which are subject to redraws. If we had the initiative and some FE that'd be one thing, but we dont. not even close.I think AKo defends a wet flop like this. Probably MORE OFTEN than AXdd goes berserk on it. I think we're up against AKo enough to make a shove profitable. Link to post Share on other sites
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