why play limit holdem

[NickTheKid 0]

Yes, "Ice" whatever you say. I'm not going to waste my time arguing something that shouldn't have been argued in the first place. All that happened was a rewording of everything that was said. Trash post, OP.

[TheIceman05 0]

Yes, "Ice" whatever you say. I'm not going to waste my time arguing something that shouldn't have been argued in the first place. All that happened was a rewording of everything that was said. Trash post, OP.

Case. End. Point.

[NickTheKid 0]

Yes, "Ice" whatever you say. I'm not going to waste my time arguing something that shouldn't have been argued in the first place. All that happened was a rewording of everything that was said. Trash post, OP.

Case. End. Point.

Stealing my prasing now. :snooty:

[Catamo 0]

I believe both are just as good as far as payoffs, But Limit is more restrictive... NL is more broad, You can trap and bluff in NL, but this doesnt really work in Limit.There are ALOT of bad players out there, that play both. But NL is probly better to play them in because u can get there money faster

[TheIceman05 0]

I believe both are just as good as far as payoffs, But Limit is more restrictive... NL is more broad, You can trap and bluff in NL, but this doesnt really work in Limit.There are ALOT of bad players out there, that play both. But NL is probly better to play them in because u can get there money faster

Yes, but you can't exploit your value-betting ability in no limit games to show profit. Just different skill. yes, it is currently much easier to make money playing low-medium NL games.Ice

[KDawgCometh 2]

It all comes down to BB/100... and if you're playing good limit, you are at about what? 4BB/100 or so? I don't know exactly....And if you're playing good NL... you are at like... 5-6BB/100... Not a big difference. It all evens out. Especially when you consider than BB means 2 different things in each game. If you are playing 1-2NL and make 6BB/100 that is $12/100If you play with the same blinds in limit... that's a 2/4 game. Meaning if you are at 4BB/100... you're making $16/100. Think about it. Is the BB/100 that much higher in NL to make it so much more lucrative? They both even out.

okay, for short term results(and I mean like 20K hands) yes, you can make up to 4BB/100, but really this is a fallacy that you can make that much over a 100K hand size, there are very few who do it. Over at 2+2, there were a bunch of us who were actually honest and it generally came out that a solid winning player can expect to win 1.5 BB/100 and a very good winning player can win 2 BB/100. I know of only tow players who stats at various levels are over 3 BBs/100, one is a slovakina guy at party 30-60 and the other is a 2+2 Small stakes poster who did Waldo's avatar. Their stats have been proven to be that high. The slovakina guy doesn't post on 2+2, he is just a guy who kills 30-60 that a bunch of Mid/High Stakes players just amaze at because his stats are very abnormal. My win rate at 3/6 is between 1.75-2.5 BB/100. I play a generally higher varience game. I alo figure that you are right Kurt in that yes it does even out over 100-200K hands, the win rate of NL and Limit. I just wanted to make this post because people have way too many lofty expectations of what a true win rate really is. I would be willing to bet that absolutely no one can win as much as what people think over a good sample size. 20K hands is nothing really, you find out your true win rate approx 100-200K hands.

[DKE_XP120 0]

makes me feel better about my 1.8/100 at 2/4 thus far. I was doubting my play at 2/4 since my WR at 1/2 was around 2.75/100 over 12,000 hands... Still didnt hit 10,000 at 2/4 though, to early to tell

[Heyou!!! 0]

----------LIMIT HOLDEM--------is the TOPIC here!!!! damn it!!A good example of how;"limit holdem is not that skillfull" is simply a comperison between ; :!: :!: LIMIT HOLEM & LIMIT OMAHA h/l :!: :!: This is just another example that shows ; that for limit holdem you need waaaay less SKILL- than you need in most of the other games of poker!!ohhh.. and No Limit is not "always bout ALLINS", everybody who doesnt agree I would suggest to watch a NL-ring game for an hour or more.

[dtemp 0]

----------LIMIT HOLDEM--------is the TOPIC here!!!! damn it!!A good example of how;"limit holdem is not that skillfull" is simply a comperison between ; :!: :!: LIMIT HOLEM & LIMIT OMAHA h/l :!: :!: This is just another example that shows ; that for limit holdem you need waaaay less SKILL- than you need in most of the other games of poker!!ohhh.. and No Limit is not "always bout ALLINS", everybody who doesnt agree I would suggest to watch a NL-ring game for an hour or more.

I have no idea what your point is here. Please elaborate.Oh, and you haven't see me play nl. I love to go all in.

[Socko669 0]

there is a reason why Supersystem recommends you read the entire book before jumping into just one chapter. ..a good poker player is a well rounded poker player. I dont see how anyone could claim to be a skilled NL HE player without having at least some degree of skill and knowledge in Limit HE...not to mention seven card stud. I play pretty much everything: NL HE, LM HE, OM (h-l/limit/pot limit) Stud/stud hi-lo, Razz, Lowball, 2-7 triple draw, five card draw, etc. Not to say that i am a master in all of these games, i am certainly better in some than others, but i feel comfortable playing any of these games whether it be in brick and mortar, online, in a tourney, or at some random joes home game. All require different skills and technique, yet all run on the same essential theory of poker. I refuse to be a one trick pony, and i dont think any poker player should, if only for the sake that a thorough study and practice of other games will expand your NL game. Poker is about constantly learning and developing...For those that think NL is more complex than any other game, see how you do heads up in a stud game or a limit he game. its a lot tougher when u cant buy pots and have to use strictly strategy and mathematics to win a game...everyone gets the same cards, yet at the same time there are still a number of people who truly excel at limit hold em such as Jennifer Harman, Erick Lindgren, Barry Greenstein...there are too many to mention. The fact that these people can consistenly win at limit games at high levels points to the truth the limit poker is not "who gets the best cards game" (by the way, that argument is about as stupid of one as ive ever heard)...if that was the truth then mortgage your house and get a loan and take on someone like Daniel Negreanu heads up ten matches in limit hold em. If the "lucky cards" theory were true you would have a roughly coin flip chance of profiting in a situation where realistically you would lose almost if not every match (unless you are a skilled limit player.)to say that limit is a luck game is akin to comparing poker to blackjack (non card counting) or even slot machines...pure stupidity and sacrilege. Luck is a factor, but it shouldnt be the deciding factor.By the way, i think Stud and Stud H/L are far more complex than NL Hold em. Just my opinion, but im sure a lot would agree.Limit is a great game, and a tough one.

[Socko669 0]

there is a reason why Supersystem recommends you read the entire book before jumping into just one chapter. ..a good poker player is a well rounded poker player. I dont see how anyone could claim to be a skilled NL HE player without having at least some degree of skill and knowledge in Limit HE...not to mention seven card stud. I play pretty much everything: NL HE, LM HE, OM (h-l/limit/pot limit) Stud/stud hi-lo, Razz, Lowball, 2-7 triple draw, five card draw, etc. Not to say that i am a master in all of these games, i am certainly better in some than others, but i feel comfortable playing any of these games whether it be in brick and mortar, online, in a tourney, or at some random joes home game. All require different skills and technique, yet all run on the same essential theory of poker. I refuse to be a one trick pony, and i dont think any poker player should, if only for the sake that a thorough study and practice of other games will expand your NL game. Poker is about constantly learning and developing...For those that think NL is more complex than any other game, see how you do heads up in a stud game or a limit he game. its a lot tougher when u cant buy pots and have to use strictly strategy and mathematics to win a game...everyone gets the same cards, yet at the same time there are still a number of people who truly excel at limit hold em such as Jennifer Harman, Erick Lindgren, Barry Greenstein...there are too many to mention. The fact that these people can consistenly win at limit games at high levels points to the truth the limit poker is not "who gets the best cards game" (by the way, that argument is about as stupid of one as ive ever heard)...if that was the truth then mortgage your house and get a loan and take on someone like Daniel Negreanu heads up ten matches in limit hold em. If the "lucky cards" theory were true you would have a roughly coin flip chance of profiting in a situation where realistically you would lose almost if not every match (unless you are a skilled limit player.)to say that limit is a luck game is akin to comparing poker to blackjack (non card counting) or even slot machines...pure stupidity and sacrilege. Luck is a factor, but it shouldnt be the deciding factor.By the way, i think Stud and Stud H/L are far more complex than NL Hold em. Just my opinion, but im sure a lot would agree.Limit is a great game, and a tough one.

[Canada 0]

I love these arguments – they are so pointless.Lets look at some facts.At the levels we play at a good NL player and a good Limit player will make about the same.Limit: A good player is able to make 2BB/100No limit: A good player is able to make 10BB/100 The difference is that the variance is higher in NL than it is in Limit to the extent that applying the same risk of ruin (we’ll use the accepted .1%) to Bankroll calculations, results in a required Bankroll of:Limit: 300BBNo Limit: 1500BBNow, of course these figures can fluctuate based on many factors, but they are considered to be an accurate average based on studies over millions of hands for winning players.This results in a return on investment (ROI) over 100 hands of:Limit: 2/300No Limit: 10/1500Anybody who can’t see these figures are the same – go away now.(As an interesting aside, a limit game plays quicker than a NL game ie. more hands per hour, so a conclusion can be drawn that if you have a fixed bankroll, and all good players should, and you are equally skilled in both disciplines, you will make more money per hour playing limit)Another fact: Pot Limit is believed to be a truer test of skill for hold’em by many leading professionals, Daniel included. These folks have often suggested for the big event(s) to be decided over this format.Here is Daniels contribution: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...d=12550&m_id=32David Sklansky has even suggested that to crown the ‘World Champion’ based on one discipline ie Hold’em and specifically NL Hold’em is not crowning the world’s best poker player.This will never happen as NL Hold’em is the easiest game to understand and enjoy for a non-playing public, and ratings along with the games popularity boom will keep it that way.I personally feel that PL does require a greater skill set, as it requires all the disciplines of both NL and Limit plus its own unique components.Whilst this is just an opinion (and an interesting point is I play almost zero pot limit) it does add to the humour factor as it makes you all look like your arguing over who comes second or third in a 3 person race…Now lets look at some suppositions:These threads (and there is usually about one a month) always seem to start with some pre-pubescent, up-tight, NL player who is convinced they are the next big thing in poker and feels the need to shout their opinions out. Their objectives are to write off another discipline to justify the fact that they can’t be bothered to learn or more likely they don’t have the skill set to succeed.After that the limit players weigh in with ‘STFU – limit is much more skilled… ‘Which is quickly followed by ‘NL requires bigger balls…’(Actually, to the OP - If you were looking for the same ROI as 10/20 NL the figures at the top of this post suggest you would need to play limit at 50/100. Give that a go and see how long you last...)And it degrades from there into a weiner waving contest.The only firm conclusion you can make from these threads is that the sooner the OP posts a ‘I’ll play you heads up anytime’ response the larger his ‘SDS’ is.(SDS – Short dick syndrome)In this case swtballa, or sam, managed it in his first reply.I would suggest therefore Sam that you seek help real soon. Either you have the shortest weiner here or you have some severe personality disorder. Possibly even both.The medical profession can help…

[Heyou!!! 0]

Now this guy come here with POT LIMIT, WTF!!!And DNs article is also about POT LIMIT.

[Canada 0]

Now this guy come here with POT LIMIT, WTF!!!And DNs article is also about POT LIMIT.

Its called context. It supports the conclusion from above"it does add to the humour factor as it makes you all look like your arguing over who comes second or third in a 3 person race… "My post reads logically and doesn't require CAPITALISATION to make a point.Try reading it again and if you say the big words out loud it helps you read them...

[bourbenz 0]

yeah I agree with that, you can make alot more money off of NL now a days especailly because of all the idiots who see it on TV and want to play. NL is alot harder than limit...bottom line

I find this whole thing hillarious you say no limit is harder because you are good at it, you say you suck at limit and can't protect your hand, etc. it would seem to me if you suck at limit then maybe you aren't qualified to judge which one is better! I play both games and at lower limits believe me nl takes way less skill than limit if you are trying to play it to the best level possible.

[w3rdup 0]

you can play 12 tabels of limit but 3 tables of no limit... that's like 4 times the rake back.

[GroT 0]

NL players always tend to go the "are you limit pussies just scared to lose money or what?" way, but it's such a crappy argument.. NLHE players often play at stakes where they have 15x the maximum buy-in and are limiting the amount of influence variance can have on their bankroll just like limit playersTo answer the question; I am trying to learn NL but I am playing the micro limits and having $130 now, I can play $0.05/0.10 limit tables (had the bankroll for those since I had $30) or the $0.01/0.02 NL tables (had the bankroll for those since I had $75). Even though the NL ones require more than twice as much bankroll, I am making way less money at them. I just can't stand how slow I make money at those tables, I want to reach $150 sometime and move up.. so I'm playing limit again even though i like both..

[Royal27 0]

Im only 20 yrs old but I have been playing no limit for some time now, like 6-7 years. I started out small like .25/.50 blinds NL but now I am playin 5/10 and sometimes 10/20 NL, I know you guys dont care at all about that though.My question is, why do people play limit? To those who do, are you scared to play no limit because you can lose all your money? To many swings? I have played it before and it is just a drawing game, obviously there is skill but no nearly as much as in NL. Sorry if it sounds like Im knockin holdem, because Im not, Im just curious why people play it instead of NL.thankssam

I personally couldn't disagree more. No limit, especially these days (and at the lower levels), is an easier game than limit.- Much easier to bluff someone out- You can protect a decent hand with a large bet- You can lose, lose, lose and win it ALL back and then some in ONE handThe variance may be greater in NL, but for me limit just means that I lose it slowly! :wink: I have the UTMOST respect for anyone who can consistently beat the limit game.

[Filesharer 0]

Ok, you haven't played limit hold'em at any level worth talking about. SSHE works for easy, easy games. Playing against skilled limit opponents takes a lot of skill, you can't just rely on books.

[shedrackle 0]

Things a fish would say:My question is, why do people play limit? To those who do, are you scared to play no limit because you can lose all your money? To many swings? I have played it before and it is just a drawing game....Let's play some censored cards!

[JaysonWeber 0]

I play both NL and Limit' date=' whoever says limit is more skilled than NL has got to be kidding me. The only thing you need to do to beat limit is read SSHE and have enough dicipline to follow it[/quote'] This sounds like a quote from someone I would gladly sit down at the Tables with Any day of the week, If you'd like to play contact me because you don't know the first thing about playing Real Limit Poker.[/quote=pokerplayer]I think LHE takes a lot more discipline as it is a less creative game then nl. Like you arent ever given major decisions in limit holdem.

Nope you haven't played much Limit either, I don't know how it's less creative. How easy is it to fold Top Pair Middle Kicker in NL with a huge raise? How easy is it too fold for 1 extra bet?

first of all' date=' I pay for my tuition through online poker and I have been playing consistently since I was in 8th grade now I am a junior in college.[/quote']Then Why are you asking this Question? I can throw some money on FullTilt or something for a freezeout if you'd like. Friendly limits ofcourse.

limt sucks

Edit this.. I was too harsh before - Much to learn young padawan

[JaysonWeber 0]

EDIT: A much more stable NL player would be much more profitable than an equally stable Limit player.

Wow, do we have a new village Idiot? Should Three Pair beat Three of A kind as well? Poker is 98% Luck isn't it?

yes, but you can't exploit your value-betting ability in no limit games to show profit

*sigh* and you were doing so well! That's wrong. You can make Value Bets in NL, just not on the river as it's just a bet he can call with a drawing hand there.

NL players always tend to go the "are you limit pussies just scared to lose money or what?" way, but it's such a crappy argument.. NLHE players often play at stakes where they have 15x the maximum buy-in and are limiting the amount of influence variance can have on their bankroll just like limit players

Funny thing that happened Monday Night.. I play in a $50 Buy-In NL game. My friend, being an idiot talked me up before the game, but when I got there they had only heard about me playing Limit. When I said down and bought in, I heard one player say to another "Remember, just put him all-in and he won't call" I just smiled... Oh.. after 3 weeks I'm averaging 16 BB/Hour there...

[NickTheKid 0]

Wow, do we have a new village Idiot?  Should Three Pair beat Three of A kind as well?  Poker is 98% Luck isn't it?  

I resent that, of course an equally skilled NL player has the potential to make more money, that's all I said, for a moderator you really are a loose cannon, aren't ya?

[KingAustin 0]

Wow, do we have a new village Idiot?  Should Three Pair beat Three of A kind as well?  Poker is 98% Luck isn't it?  

I resent that, of course an equally skilled NL player has the potential to make more money, that's all I said, for a moderator you really are a loose cannon, aren't ya?

No, he's not, you're just blatantly wrong and won't admit it.

[NickTheKid 0]

Wrong with WHAT? I STILL don't know what is being ARGUED HERE.1. There are more swings and your money is in a more dangerous position in NL? - Agree?2. The skill levels in Limit and No-Limit are different, there is no COMPARISON this is a STUPID argument. - Agree?3. Everyone think's I'm attacking limit when I'm clearly not. - Agree?4. For a mod, he was obviously out of hand. - Agree?This is getting tiresome.