why play limit holdem

[pokepoke1967 0]

If A plays X and B plays Y and they both win about $Z per week.....who cares....it is stupid to debate it....if you win at one and struggle at the other by definition you should be able to admit that, in fact, for you at least, the other is more difficult. I lost $25 last night playing 7 stud 8/or better (I don't play it too much) playing tight tight tight, while the calling station managed split after split after split and the occassional scoop. Because I lost I can then say that the game is too easy. LMAO.

[swtballa 0]

i really think that NL is a much harder game, but that might be because all I ever do is play NL. Playing limit is just boring to me. Obviously a limit player would probably beat me in a limit match, and I would probably beat a player who plays limit all the time in a NL match. All I am saying is that NL is a harder game to master...."the cadillac of poker" takes a minute to learn and a lifetime to master. Obviously limit is similar but I really think that NL is the harder game to win at. More power to you guys who play limit and win but what you guys make in an hr I make in a hand :-)

[Demonikal 0]

i just recently converted to the dark side of limit games...i thought i loved NL but the ability to read people is way too crucial, so online NL is seemingly not worth it, but in limit a bad read will not clean out your wallet on one pot, while i dont agree that it is more skillful than NL i do agree that it does take patience and a certain understanding of when to chase and when to kick it (even though in NL its practically the same, just less costly in LHE)its really just up to the player on which is better suited for THEM(come to the darkside :twisted: )

[KDawgCometh 2]

i just recently converted to the dark side of limit games...i thought i loved NL but the ability to read people is way too crucial, so online NL is seemingly not worth it, but in limit a bad read will not clean out your wallet on one pot, while i dont agree that it is more skillful than NL i do agree that it does take patience and a certain understanding of when to chase and when to kick it (even though in NL its practically the same, just less costly in LHE)its really just up to the player on which is better suited for THEM(come to the darkside :twisted: )

You can call me Darth Akerious :twisted:

[SapphireTiger 0]

the OP has obviously not played limit that much at all otherwise he would be singing a different tune. there are so many huge misconceptions about poker in general...people like this make it hard for me to take a break from poker when i could be padding my wallet with their money.

[elkang 0]

I love people like you who play limit to minimize your losses that you cant stomach in a NL type game. A limit player challenging someone to sit at their table is hilarious. How about you sit with him in a $1000 freezeout NL game. Can you stomach that?

This is such a illogical strawman. You're arguing about the stakes here - not the game. Is Daniel weak because he plays limit for $500K rather than a $25K tourney like Bellagio?Usually I ignore your posts - but in this case STFU PhishforChips.

[elkang 0]

let me preface this with the fact that i primarily play NLHE, about 70% of the time, the other 30% is spent mostly playing LHE or OH/L. with that said even myself as a predominantly NL player, i understand that limit is much more difficult, and that is why i play it less. why do i play NL more? because with my skill level it is easier for me to avg. more money per hour playing NL, so it has the highest +ev. why can i make more money? because it is EASIER to exploit edges in NL, limit takes much more skill to make the same amount of money. i am a winning player in both games, but my win rate is much higher in NL.

I was waiting until I saw a post that I could really agree with. I like this one.Many of you need some help with critical thinking and I hope none of you are scientists. You're like the people who argued the earth is flat - they had good reasons too.Part of the problem is that different people are using subjective criteria to judge what is "hardest". What game requires the most skill? It obvious... just look at the Big Game. It's mixed rotation - and the games picked are those that draw action and find weaker players. The games where the skill advantage can be leveraged the most - either because of the rules of the game or because of the skill level of your opponents -- THAT'S THE GAME THAT SHOWS THE MOST REQUIREMENTS FOR SKILL.

[MilesZS 0]

Good lord, I quit reading when I saw there was a page 2. You guys all realize you're having a flame war over NL v. limit, right? Can we please try to get geekier? Please? It will be fun. Let's all dress up in Star Wars costumes and argue whether epox or asus makes a better motherboard.You want to know what the god damned bottom line is? Some people prefer No Limit, some prefer Limit. You guys are all ridiculous. There's a reason few of the regulars even bother with General Poker anymore, let alone this trash thread.

[elkang 0]

Let me give an analogy...Which game require more skill Baseball or Basketball? This is a pretty stupid question because it is so subjective. Which is more important stamina, strength, speed? One can argue for either based on your criteria. None of you are doing this and just arguing silly.Now, let's look at Baseball in 2000 and Basketball in 1940. Which requires more skill? It's clearly Baseball in 2000 because the game has come so far.Now, use your brains and try to figure out what this would mean for judging poker. How could you find out which game required the most skill to do well?Answer that first before you post all this dribble about X game requires no skill etc.Meanwhile, can someone post the LINK to Malmuth's article? I'd like to hear what he has to say. I'm sure it's better than my dribble and most of what got posted in this thread.

[JackDeuce 0]

I started playing online NLHE first before any of the other forms. When I decided to give LHE a try I hated it. Why? Because I couldnt beat it, the same way I played in NL didnt work in limit. This bugged me and I set out to read and learn all I could about limit. After some time and money lost I was able to beat limit HE at the limit I play. By now your saying so what whats your point? My point is the patience and timing I had to learn in LHE helped my NLH game. Each take a certain amount of skill and instead of arguing which is harder learn them both and broaden your game. :-)

[PestoSauce 0]

Why do people play limit? It is a fun, skillful game. Why have all of Daniel's challenges all been limit? Why are the biggest games in Vegas limit? There is definitely a huge skill factor in Limit.

[dtemp 0]

Meanwhile, can someone post the LINK to Malmuth's article? I'd like to hear what he has to say. I'm sure it's better than my dribble and most of what got posted in this thread.

Yeah, I'd like to see this too.

[DKE_XP120 0]

In my opinion people who just play holdem are not nearly as good as consistent NL players. they will call all in's on gut shot straight draws

Are you kidding me?Limit players are all about being consistent and making the most positive EV choices for the long run. limit players are all about the long run. I play limit, I pay my rent with it through college. Limit is all about exploiting small weaknesses to be conistent over time. I wont be as tactful as keith, you're jabs at limit, and over reactions are flat out laughable.

[KDawgCometh 2]

Let me give an analogy...Which game require more skill Baseball or Basketball? This is a pretty stupid question because it is so subjective. Which is more important stamina, strength, speed? One can argue for either based on your criteria. None of you are doing this and just arguing silly.Now, let's look at Baseball in 2000 and Basketball in 1940. Which requires more skill? It's clearly Baseball in 2000 because the game has come so far.Now, use your brains and try to figure out what this would mean for judging poker. How could you find out which game required the most skill to do well?Answer that first before you post all this dribble about X game requires no skill etc.Meanwhile, can someone post the LINK to Malmuth's article? I'd like to hear what he has to say. I'm sure it's better than my dribble and most of what got posted in this thread.

the basic jist is that in NL the expert has such a massive edge over his opponents that some form of skill gets completely taken out of the game, and that because of the structure of limit that the expertr doesn't have as big of an edge that they have to apply more means of skill to maintain an edge over the inferior opponent. But he does end it by giving a dissertation that Stud takes even more skill and that the expert has both the greatest edge in that but also have to apply the greatest amount of skill too

[Guest]

Are you kidding me?Limit players are all about being consistent and making the most positive EV choices for the long run. limit players are all about the long run. I play limit, I pay my rent with it through college. Limit is all about exploiting small weaknesses to be conistent over time. I wont be as tactful as keith, you're jabs at limit, and over reactions are flat out laughable.

DKE_XP120's post= +EV :-)

[KingAustin 0]

Usually I ignore your posts - but in this case STFU PhishforChips.

owned!

[KDawgCometh 2]

Usually I ignore your posts - but in this case STFU PhishforChips.

owned!

no, it PWN3D. get it right

[NickTheKid 0]

No-Limit takes more balls than limit, the math and long term success are all the same, you guys think in every NL game you double up or bust? Get real.They are totally different games none-the-less. No-Limit is just more ballsy. Both take skill, this argument is pointless.

[jeff_536 3]

Let me give an analogy...Which game require more skill Baseball or Basketball? This is a pretty stupid question because it is so subjective. Which is more important stamina, strength, speed? One can argue for either based on your criteria. None of you are doing this and just arguing silly.Now, let's look at Baseball in 2000 and Basketball in 1940. Which requires more skill? It's clearly Baseball in 2000 because the game has come so far.Now, use your brains and try to figure out what this would mean for judging poker. How could you find out which game required the most skill to do well?Answer that first before you post all this dribble about X game requires no skill etc.Meanwhile, can someone post the LINK to Malmuth's article? I'd like to hear what he has to say. I'm sure it's better than my dribble and most of what got posted in this thread.

Drivel, not dribble.Elkang...you've really taken a nasty turn the last few weeks. I'm impressed.As for the arguement, I've heard NLHE described as art and LHE described as science. I always thought was pretty close (and yes, I play both). Art is hard and science is hard. Why does it have to turn into a big dick contest?

[DKE_XP120 0]

No-Limit takes more balls than limit, the math and long term success are all the same, you guys think in every NL game you double up or bust? Get real.They are totally different games none-the-less. No-Limit is just more ballsy. Both take skill, this argument is pointless.

its not about guts man, its about money. its about protecting your bankroll so you can afford to live. Get over the macho bull crap and realize what you're saying

[NickTheKid 0]

No-Limit takes more balls than limit, the math and long term success are all the same, you guys think in every NL game you double up or bust? Get real.They are totally different games none-the-less. No-Limit is just more ballsy. Both take skill, this argument is pointless.

its not about guts man, its about money. its about protecting your bankroll so you can afford to live. Get over the macho bull crap and realize what you're saying

Yeah, exactly, when I say it takes more balls, what do you think I mean, chief?Risk Vs. Reward! We have a winner!!!! :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: Get over your dick measuring contest bullcrap and realize what you are saying.

[elkang 0]

No-Limit takes more balls than limit, the math and long term success are all the same, you guys think in every NL game you double up or bust? Get real.They are totally different games none-the-less. No-Limit is just more ballsy. Both take skill, this argument is pointless.

I like this post too. NL takes balls. Or I think the proper (formal) term is heart.The all-in is the reason why NL takes more heart regardless of the stakes.

[DKE_XP120 0]

Risk Vs. Reward! We have a winner!!!!

The win rate between limit and no limit are the same there.... "chief"you're talking about dick measuring contest? I never mentioned anything about balls to play one game or another, I talked about skill. Way to hypocritical towards your own post :roll:

[TheIceman05 0]

No-Limit takes more balls than limit, the math and long term success are all the same, you guys think in every NL game you double up or bust? Get real.They are totally different games none-the-less. No-Limit is just more ballsy. Both take skill, this argument is pointless.

I like this post too. NL takes balls. Or I think the proper (formal) term is heart.

This has just become nonsense. It takes just as much "heart" to three-bet the river with a marginal holding because you think your opponent was value-raising you with an even MORE marginal holding in limit poker as it does to call an all-in with middle pair and a 3 flush on board in no limit. It's absolutely not an issue of heart if you play both games correctly. I've played both games extensively. At the lower-to-middle range NL games, money is a lot easier to come by when compared with the limit games. Bad NL players are going to expose themselves for all their chips significantly more often than will bad limit players. One can play reasonably straightforward NL poker and not miss out on too much in terms of %value.In limit, however, my experience dictates that a significantly higher degree of focus, patience, and determination is required to beat a low-medium level game. There's just a little more to it, that's all. Understanding when to bet or raise the river for value is a subtle, but important, concept. Weaker players will ALWAYS be open to these kinds of leaks. In NL, weaker players can blunt their own shortcomings by pricing opponents out of the pot, and moving in. Limit is a fun ass game. It's complex and challenging. That's why I play. Ice

[NickTheKid 0]

Risk Vs. Reward! We have a winner!!!!

The win rate between limit and no limit are the same there.... "chief"You're wrong.you're talking about dick measuring contest? I never mentioned anything about balls to play one game or another' date=' I talked about skill.[/b']I shouldn't have assumed. However, if you think it is more skillfull to play with a more secure money flow, it boggles me how that is more skillfull...?