Shot Down Again After Trying To Move Up

[KosinTrouble 0]

PISS ME OFF! Going on tilt here......So I made my money back again and moved up to the .02/.05 tables again last night and sadly it was the same fricken story.... Lost $15 and now I am back to the penny table. I just cant seem to get it. I dont know if its a mental block or what. I know the people there are not better than me!!! I think the problem is that I am trying to think in terms of bb when betting but its not workign. E.g. On the penny tables if I am on the button with AJs I would bet .10, if there is 1 limper and the blinds to come, which would be 5bb's... On the .02/.05 tables under the same scenario I would bet .25. The problem seems to be on the penny tables I might get 1 caller, on the .02/.05 table the origonal limper and the blinds always end up calling. Should I be raising more? How many bb's should I be raising?Last night I lost a big hand with pocket QQ's to pocket AA's, not much you can do.. The guy was raising everything and reraising every raise, he was vpip 87%, pr 70% over 60hands... So I am not too upset about that.But the other hands I keep losing are trips to flushes, where I am betting $1 after the flop, betting $2 on the turn and 2 people are still calling and chasing and then make the flush and I am screwed... The other is I have AKs on button, I raise to .40, and get 3 callers, I getTPTK, and somoene who called with A-rag hits their 2 pair... Three times I have tried moving up and all three times the same things happen. So my immediate question is this... You get AKs, flop comes and you have TPTK on what looks like a dry board, and you bet the pot and get a call. What should I do? Do I have to assume they have something as well, and then check the turn if I dont improve and fold to a bet!?Any aditional articles on preflop raising/cbetting ect... would be appriciated. I know there is something really stupid I am missing I just dont see it...ThanksKosin Trouble

[Balloon guy 158]

Seems you are predictable.Maybe try mixing up your game. Throw in some limps, make some raises with 78 suited etc. Try not to do the same thing twice in a row.Also don't commit so much to the pot pre-flop.If your hand is better than everyone, you want them to call. That is something you need to adjust in your thinking. If you are a 70% favorite to win the pot, why wouldn't you want a call?After you get calls, try to adjust your thinking from 'protect my hand' into 'What kind of hand do they have?" If you feel you are beat, lay down your hand. If you think you are ahead, bet 3/4 the pot.If you are getting called all day than the reality is people are picking up that you are overplaying / over committing after the flop and they are picking you off.I differ in my opinion of c-betting. If you raise pre-with AK and the flop is 456 hearts and you are heartless, your C-bet is more than likely costing you money in the long run.Finally it's okay to do the following:Miss the flop and release.Occasionally fold the winning hand if you doubt it's strength.Get less than the maximum out of your hand when playing weird players.One thing you do have going for you is bankroll management, that kind of discipline will pay you off better than any other kind in the long run.Good luck man

[nutzzcase 0]

play micro sit and goes instead

[Balloon guy 158]

play micro sit and goes instead

This is also good advice.The $1 double or nothings on PS are like printing money.I usually play the $5 or $10 double or nothings and have had really good success.After winning two or three I will sit in on a $1 double or noting and play crazy LAG, and if I can build up a chip stack, I get down to 6 players than I purposefully raise short stacks $1 less than they have so that when they re-raise me I can fold. I try to make the game last as long as possible and try to be 6th man out after having a massive chip lead.With no chat allowed it must be driving the other guys crazy.

[KosinTrouble 0]

play micro sit and goes instead

why is that? Are not s&g's more like tounament play? How will that help me move up in the tables?Kos

[KosinTrouble 0]

This is also good advice.The $1 double or nothings on PS are like printing money.I usually play the $5 or $10 double or nothings and have had really good success.After winning two or three I will sit in on a $1 double or noting and play crazy LAG, and if I can build up a chip stack, I get down to 6 players than I purposefully raise short stacks $1 less than they have so that when they re-raise me I can fold. I try to make the game last as long as possible and try to be 6th man out after having a massive chip lead.With no chat allowed it must be driving the other guys crazy.

Sorry I am not familar with the double or nothing s&g's... Why do you want to be 6th man out?kosin Trouble

[Suited_Up 2]

Sorry I am not familar with the double or nothing s&g's... Why do you want to be 6th man out?kosin Trouble

To annoy people I think. :)6th is the bubble.

[nutzzcase 0]

why is that? Are not s&g's more like tounament play? How will that help me move up in the tables?Kos

you can get a bankroll and move up to limits where raises are respected.Playing penny games is like playing freerolls you'll almost never learn something about the game.

[Vos 0]

I don't really notice a big difference between 1/2 and 2/5, so it's probably in your head mate

[mtdesmoines 3]

PISS ME OFF! Going on tilt here......So I made my money back again and moved up to the .02/.05 tables again last night and sadly it was the same fricken story.... Lost $15 and now I am back to the penny table. I just cant seem to get it. I dont know if its a mental block or what. I know the people there are not better than me!!! I THINK THE RAKE MAKES IT TOUGH TO PLAY YOUR WAY OUT OF THE MICROS. I'VE NEVER PLAYED MICROS, SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RAKE IS THOUGH.I think the problem is that I am trying to think in terms of bb when betting but its not workign. E.g. On the penny tables if I am on the button with AJs I would bet .10, if there is 1 limper and the blinds to come, which would be 5bb's... On the .02/.05 tables under the same scenario I would bet .25. The problem seems to be on the penny tables I might get 1 caller, on the .02/.05 table the origonal limper and the blinds always end up calling. Should I be raising more? How many bb's should I be raising?IF EVERYONE IS CALLING AND YOU HAVE THE BEST HAND, RAISE MORE SO THAT WHEN YOU HOLD UP, YOU MAKE MORE AND BETTER COVER YOUR LOSSES. ADJUST TO THE GAME.Last night I lost a big hand with pocket QQ's to pocket AA's, not much you can do.. The guy was raising everything and reraising every raise, he was vpip 87%, pr 70% over 60hands... So I am not too upset about that.But the other hands I keep losing are trips to flushes, where I am betting $1 after the flop, betting $2 on the turn and 2 people are still calling and chasing and then make the flush and I am screwed... CHECK TO SEE YOU ARE NOT PRICING THEM IN ACCORDING TO THE POT.The other is I have AKs on button, I raise to .40, and get 3 callers, I getTPTK, and somoene who called with A-rag hits their 2 pair... Three times I have tried moving up and all three times the same things happen. So my immediate question is this... You get AKs, flop comes and you have TPTK on what looks like a dry board, and you bet the pot and get a call. What should I do? Do I have to assume they have something as well, and then check the turn if I dont improve and fold to a bet!?THAT WOULD BE LIGHTING MONEY ON FIRE. Any aditional articles on preflop raising/cbetting ect... would be appriciated. I know there is something really stupid I am missing I just dont see it...ThanksKosin Trouble

[Balloon guy 158]

Sorry I am not familar with the double or nothing s&g's... Why do you want to be 6th man out?kosin Trouble

To annoy people I think. :)6th is the bubble.

Kurt is right.Double or nothing sit and goes are where 10 people sit down, and once 5 players bust out, the remaining 5 players each get double their buy in and the game is over.It rewards a tight conservative play with selective aggression.When I was teaching my son-in-law to play online I made him grind these for a while to understand the value of protecting your chips/money as opposed to gambling.The next step is to re-introduce gambling into his game.I personally think a person who is super lag then tries to tighten up will have a much worse time than someone who is super TAG and then loosens up their starting range.I am pretty sure Phil Hellmuth would agree with me.

[jmbreslin 0]

It sounds like you might be trying to move up too quickly. $15 is only 3 buyins at 5NL - if you have to drop back down after losing 3 buyins, you're either not properly rolled for that level or you're not mentally prepared to deal with poker variance. Which one is it?

[KosinTrouble 0]

It sounds like you might be trying to move up too quickly. $15 is only 3 buyins at 5NL - if you have to drop back down after losing 3 buyins, you're either not properly rolled for that level or you're not mentally prepared to deal with poker variance. Which one is it?

I am moving up to the .02/.05 tables when I hit $150... If I lose $15 at that level then I move myself down till I am back at the $150... Then try again. I think my bankroll is fine, I might be a little tight on my management of it, but let me know what you think.Kos

[spydur86 0]

You want more than 3 buy-ins when you move up in levels. If that's what you're limiting yourself to you're going to find your self frustrated and moving back down quite often due to variance. 3 buy-ins is practically nothing, especially at that level where no one respects your play.EDIT: I'm definitely an advocate of getting into SNG's. I really like the $1.20 45 mans, they're extremely soft and if you just play super tight (as in I generally limp small PP's, suited connectors, fold A10-AJ, KQ and below in EP and play my big hands like they're the nuts) through the 10/20 and 15/30 levels and find a spot to let someone else give you their stack you can go a long way. Cash games are super frusterating (to me). If you insist on playing cash try something like playing $0.02-0.05 with 10 buy-ins which gives you a bit more room to work and if you hit $100 start back at $0.01-0.02.

[lurbz 2]

i did not read this thread so i'm just going to type the first words that come to mind once im done with this sentencePreposterous pumpkin plaster.I hope you enjoy it.

[KosinTrouble 0]

You want more than 3 buy-ins when you move up in levels. If that's what you're limiting yourself to you're going to find your self frustrated and moving back down quite often due to variance. 3 buy-ins is practically nothing, especially at that level where no one respects your play.

how many buy in's would you suggest? Wait till i hit $200, then drop if I lose $50? (based on $5 buy in, 10 buy ins)Kosin Trouble

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Don't freak out losing 3 buy-ins.That is nothing.

[tbrick412 0]

i did not read this thread so i'm just going to type the first words that come to mind once im done with this sentencePreposterous pumpkin plaster.I hope you enjoy it.

what

[spydur86 0]

how many buy in's would you suggest? Wait till i hit $200, then drop if I lose $50? (based on $5 buy in, 10 buy ins)Kosin Trouble

Check my edit.

[jmbreslin 0]

He's playing with 30 buyins, not 3, but he seems to be using 3 as a kind of stop-loss. So the problem is the use of 3 buyins as a stop-loss. It doesn't give you enough room to deal with the natural variance of the game (I lost 3 buyins in one session of 5NL Rush poker the other night). The point is, if you're properly rolled for a level and are mentally prepared to play at that level, then you should only drop back down if your roll drops below an acceptable amount for that level. If you're having a bit of trouble with the variance, then you want to be over-rolled. I'd suggest at least 50 buyins, which means you'll need at least $250 for the 5NL level. That way a 3-buyin swing won't hit you as hard as it does when you only have 30 buyins.I'm also a big fan of SnGs but it does require learning a very different style of NLHE. You can't just jump from cash to tourney play without some adjustment. I personally love the $1.10 45-turbos on Stars.

[spydur86 0]

He's playing with 30 buyins, not 3, but he seems to be using 3 as a kind of stop-loss. So the problem is the use of 3 buyins as a stop-loss. It doesn't give you enough room to deal with the natural variance of the game (I lost 3 buyins in one session of 5NL Rush poker the other night). The point is, if you're properly rolled for a level and are mentally prepared to play at that level, then you should only drop back down if your roll drops below an acceptable amount for that level. If you're having a bit of trouble with the variance, then you want to be over-rolled. I'd suggest at least 50 buyins, which means you'll need at least $250 for the 5NL level. That way a 3-buyin swing won't hit you as hard as it does when you only have 30 buyins.I'm also a big fan of SnGs but it does require learning a very different style of NLHE. You can't just jump from cash to tourney play without some adjustment. I personally love the $1.10 45-turbos on Stars.

I realize he's "playing with 30 buy-ins" but mentally he's only playing with 3. That's all I meant by that.

[Mercury69 3]

PEWPEW!

[TrueAce13 18]

Don't freak out losing 3 buy-ins.That is nothing.

soooo this

[AdamDarv 0]

Seems you are predictable.Maybe try mixing up your game. Throw in some limps, make some raises with 78 suited etc. Try not to do the same thing twice in a row.Also don't commit so much to the pot pre-flop.If your hand is better than everyone, you want them to call. That is something you need to adjust in your thinking. If you are a 70% favorite to win the pot, why wouldn't you want a call?After you get calls, try to adjust your thinking from 'protect my hand' into 'What kind of hand do they have?" If you feel you are beat, lay down your hand. If you think you are ahead, bet 3/4 the pot.If you are getting called all day than the reality is people are picking up that you are overplaying / over committing after the flop and they are picking you off.I differ in my opinion of c-betting. If you raise pre-with AK and the flop is 456 hearts and you are heartless, your C-bet is more than likely costing you money in the long run.Finally it's okay to do the following:Miss the flop and release.Occasionally fold the winning hand if you doubt it's strength.Get less than the maximum out of your hand when playing weird players.One thing you do have going for you is bankroll management, that kind of discipline will pay you off better than any other kind in the long run.Good luck man

Balloon guy has some good advice above. I recommend you read Harrington on cash games as it will really help to develop your cash game strategy and thinking. I play alot of 9 man ring games at the $.50 - $1.00 level all the way up to the $2.00 -$5.00 levels and I try to follow some basic principals regarding strategy:1. Pot sizing and control - keep the pot sized to the relative strength of your hand. Big hand = big pot etc, etc. An over pair to the flop does not equate to a big hand, nor does TPTK. Too many players are willing to get stacked in these situations. 2. Are you willing to risk your entire stack with AK preflop ? There will be situations where you are and situations where you wont. After the flop it is an entirely different story.3. Play profitable pots. It does not make sense to call a preflop raise from a SS in hopes of hitting your set with a small to medium PP. There is no value as the SS gives you no implied odds if you hit your set of 6's. Same thing with suited connectors, great hands to play in multi-way pots postflop not so good HU.4. No need to force the action as it usually will come to you.5. Do not target a specific player, it can backfire on you.6. Beware of the check raise as it usually means something. If you tend to c-bet often you will begin to see players playing back at you, sometimes it is a bluff and other times you are beat.7. Watch out for big bluffs, bluffs have to tell a story - this works both for you and against you.Good luck

[vervius 0]

just gotta know when you chill after a bad session too.took me a lot of head game changing as well as poker game changing when moving upGL!