General Question...online Vs Live Cash Games, No Limit

[shynepo3 0]

Just a general question...do ppl who play online, for a specific amount, such as 1/2, 2/5, etc..when then play live, do they play for a higher amount? I'm speaking generally...and from experience, for ppl who play both regularly.....would you say there are A LOT better players online as opposed to live?

[CoolHandKai 0]

Just a general question...do ppl who play online, for a specific amount, such as 1/2, 2/5, etc..when then play live, do they play for a higher amount? I'm speaking generally...and from experience, for ppl who play both regularly.....would you say there are A LOT better players online as opposed to live?

Online players are generally a lot better than live players for various reasons. As for playing higher live - if you're doing proper bankroll management, you shouldn't really play higher (i.e. outside of your bankroll).

[BaseJester 1]

I play higher live. It's not exactly a bankroll consideration. I just don't think I'll have a positive expectation at big online games.

[DemonDonk 0]

If someone plays 1 table of 1/2 they don't have the earning power of someone 12 tabling 25nl, people play higher live to make it worth it for them, they can't multi table so their earning power is greatly reduced.

[trystero 0]

online is in general much harder to beat than live. I won't say much more because 1) I play live so infrequently and 2) I tend to exaggerate the difference in skill. in my experience w/live play, working adults who play poker recreationally need stakes to make it worthwhile to them. In homegames they'll play 10nl/20nl no problem with me since it's a friendly game. But if you took these same people to the casino then they'd need to play at least 1/2 (and not just because that's the lowest they can go). They want to gamble and walk away from the table up several hundred dollars, maybe a thousand. That's poker to them. You can't tell someone who makes $58k/year that he needs to play poker online for $20 pots in order to grow and mature as a player. The whole notion's ludicrous. He's like, "I have $5k to gamble with, so let's do it." So you see these guys at 1/2, even if they're semi-competent. Online you're up against a lineup that's come up through the ranks. You'll see regs like Tskillz (Who used to post here) who really understand the game well. They know your range, how they fare agains that range, your tendencies, and they know how to apply pressure in the right situations. Live, yea right. Listen to them discuss strategy and it's either the absolute ABCs or a butchered and misunderstood concept beyond their comprehension (like using Pokerstove).When you play live you have to play for higher stakes almost always if you're a micro-player just because casinos obviously don't spread lower limits. If you play 50nl online then there's nothing you can do but "go outside of your bankroll" when you visit Foxwoods.

[shynepo3 0]

the reason i ask...i've been playing 1/2, 2/5 LIVE since the start of the year. And all i hoped was to come out slightly ahead....maybe average about 10-15 hr. Well i've played about 80 hours, and i'm crushing the game(s). I know variance will heed it's ugly head at some point, however, i've think over the long run, i'm a favourite in this game (there are few regulars, whom, no offense, are older ppl (over 50), who just don't change their games at all...they play the same way, day in/day out, and are so predictable; a few of the other regulars make a living off these - and there are a few live ones who just pump so much action; i honestly believe a competent 100nl player online could crush this game).anyways, i wanted to know, if i was to jump into online, 1 table, full ring, what would be best? i never got a feel for online, though i did learn to play poker thru online about 12 years ago. it was limit back then, and i did all the stupid things such as playing 20/40 limit with a 1000 bankroll. i played for about 2-3 months straight before i blew thru my bankroll and then some with the credit card.should i play 100nl (0.50/1.00), or even lower? i think anything below 50nl would be too small....but feel free to be hoenst.

[mtdesmoines 3]

the reason i ask...i've been playing 1/2, 2/5 LIVE since the start of the year. And all i hoped was to come out slightly ahead....maybe average about 10-15 hr. Well i've played about 80 hours, and i'm crushing the game(s). I know variance will heed it's ugly head at some point, however, i've think over the long run, i'm a favourite in this game (there are few regulars, whom, no offense, are older ppl (over 50), who just don't change their games at all...they play the same way, day in/day out, and are so predictable; a few of the other regulars make a living off these - and there are a few live ones who just pump so much action; i honestly believe a competent 100nl player online could crush this game).anyways, i wanted to know, if i was to jump into online, 1 table, full ring, what would be best? i never got a feel for online, though i did learn to play poker thru online about 12 years ago. it was limit back then, and i did all the stupid things such as playing 20/40 limit with a 1000 bankroll. i played for about 2-3 months straight before i blew thru my bankroll and then some with the credit card.should i play 100nl (0.50/1.00), or even lower? i think anything below 50nl would be too small....but feel free to be hoenst.

Don't think $$$$$, think BBs. There's good and bad poker played everywhere ... online, casinos, home games. I think game selection (not easy when playing live) and game adjustments are what matters.

[trystero 0]

the reason i ask...i've been playing 1/2, 2/5 LIVE since the start of the year. And all i hoped was to come out slightly ahead....maybe average about 10-15 hr. Well i've played about 80 hours, and i'm crushing the game(s). I know variance will heed it's ugly head at some point, however, i've think over the long run, i'm a favourite in this game (there are few regulars, whom, no offense, are older ppl (over 50), who just don't change their games at all...they play the same way, day in/day out, and are so predictable; a few of the other regulars make a living off these - and there are a few live ones who just pump so much action; i honestly believe a competent 100nl player online could crush this game).anyways, i wanted to know, if i was to jump into online, 1 table, full ring, what would be best? i never got a feel for online, though i did learn to play poker thru online about 12 years ago. it was limit back then, and i did all the stupid things such as playing 20/40 limit with a 1000 bankroll. i played for about 2-3 months straight before i blew thru my bankroll and then some with the credit card.should i play 100nl (0.50/1.00), or even lower? i think anything below 50nl would be too small....but feel free to be hoenst.

wow what were you playing 12 years ago, EmpirePoker? Party didn't even come about until 2001...that's some throwback shittbh the games today are very difficult at 50nl and beyond. But hey if you've got the bankroll for it, what do you have to lose but money? You won't know until you try...

[shynepo3 0]

wow what were you playing 12 years ago, EmpirePoker? Party didn't even come about until 2001...that's some throwback shittbh the games today are very difficult at 50nl and beyond. But hey if you've got the bankroll for it, what do you have to lose but money? You won't know until you try...

lol...well, maybe it was 11 years ago...but i remember playing on paradise and party poker mainly...i was about 19-20, and im' 30 now...anyways, i guess i can try lower, say 25nl...i'm thinking about depositing 1000, and hopefully get double that due to bonuses...is that possible? any suggestions on which sites give the best first time deposit bonuses, and rakebacks?and i dont think they had empire...at least i never heard of it back then...there was one site, that i had quite a bit of money on, that folded...i lost about 2k(was a lot to me back then...even now lol)...i forgot the name.....i think it had to do with dutch boyd or someone named dutch..lol....

[trystero 0]

Paradise sounds about right for that time. And that site by Dutch Boyd was PokerSpot.Now before you go depositing do a bit of research, like how to get rakeback and what bonuses you're offered. Many sites offer a first time matching deposit bonus of up to $500/$600 (which they pay out incrementally, usually every $10 or $20, as you pay rake). If you join Full Tilt, and they offer a bonus of $600, then you'll want to sign up through an affiliate so that you can get rakeback. I use RakeBackPros which pays 27% rakeback (standard figure) every week and updates daily. Nice site, no complaints...go to their website and follow the directions on how to sign up (you definitely have to sign up through them, possibly using a promotional code...otherwise, you may not get RB). Other sites exist like RaketheRake which offer perks, like freeroll tournaments and stuff, to try and attract customers.$1k isn't rolled for 50nl to be honest if that's ALL the money you can spend on poker. I mean, it's only 20 BIs. But your situation sounds a bit different: you sound like you could, if necessary, deposit more money, and you claim that you want to single-table (I say claim because after a few hours you'll be firing up more tables). It'll also be very difficult to clear a bonus playing just one table. But for an appreciation of variance look at Ninja Ace's graph in the Challenge Thread. He's a very good player who over like 30k hands has played breakeven poker at 50nl. Now granted he's a maniac, and he gets in some very bizarre spots I bet, but the point is that downswings can be pronounced and dirty and can torture even longterm winners.edit: I hear Full Tilt's a bit "harder" than other sites, which is anecdotal and probably BS, but I really have to recommend them if you want to focus on one site. Easy deposits with eCheck, and I've NEVER had a problem cashing out. They send me a nondescript check within the week...

[Ninja Ace 1]

I play higher live. It's not exactly a bankroll consideration. I just don't think I'll have a positive expectation at big online games.

Ditto

[shynepo3 0]

Paradise sounds about right for that time. And that site by Dutch Boyd was PokerSpot.Now before you go depositing do a bit of research, like how to get rakeback and what bonuses you're offered. Many sites offer a first time matching deposit bonus of up to $500/$600 (which they pay out incrementally, usually every $10 or $20, as you pay rake). If you join Full Tilt, and they offer a bonus of $600, then you'll want to sign up through an affiliate so that you can get rakeback. I use RakeBackPros which pays 27% rakeback (standard figure) every week and updates daily. Nice site, no complaints...go to their website and follow the directions on how to sign up (you definitely have to sign up through them, possibly using a promotional code...otherwise, you may not get RB). Other sites exist like RaketheRake which offer perks, like freeroll tournaments and stuff, to try and attract customers.$1k isn't rolled for 50nl to be honest if that's ALL the money you can spend on poker. I mean, it's only 20 BIs. But your situation sounds a bit different: you sound like you could, if necessary, deposit more money, and you claim that you want to single-table (I say claim because after a few hours you'll be firing up more tables). It'll also be very difficult to clear a bonus playing just one table. But for an appreciation of variance look at Ninja Ace's graph in the Challenge Thread. He's a very good player who over like 30k hands has played breakeven poker at 50nl. Now granted he's a maniac, and he gets in some very bizarre spots I bet, but the point is that downswings can be pronounced and dirty and can torture even longterm winners.edit: I hear Full Tilt's a bit "harder" than other sites, which is anecdotal and probably BS, but I really have to recommend them if you want to focus on one site. Easy deposits with eCheck, and I've NEVER had a problem cashing out. They send me a nondescript check within the week...

hey, thanks for taking the time with that reply...trust me, if i lose 20BI, which i know is a very big possibility, i will not deposit again for a LONG time...and tbh, if lose 10, i'll probably drop down in stakes to 25nl or even 10nl...it sucks that i'm getting comfortable playing my 2/5 game with 500 buy in, and now to go online i have to drop down to 10% of that or lower...i'm still on the fence of doing online poker...but i want to improve my game, and i know live (at the moment) isn't going to unless i start going to other casions/clubs, which i dont have the time for...thanks again..

[shynepo3 0]

Don't think $$$$$, think BBs. There's good and bad poker played everywhere ... online, casinos, home games. I think game selection (not easy when playing live) and game adjustments are what matters.

yeah, i think i really lucked out that the place i'm playing happens to be 5 minutes away from home, and i could pretty much play part time and not have my wife and (3 kids) not notice...lol.have any of you ever went a whole month without a losing session? or maybe just 1 or 2 out of 15? i've had 4 losing sessions last month (out of only 8) - 3 of them were my first sessions - i was adjusting to the game, and 1 this month (out of 14). i must be running good?

[mtdesmoines 3]

yeah, i think i really lucked out that the place i'm playing happens to be 5 minutes away from home, and i could pretty much play part time and not have my wife and (3 kids) not notice...lol.have any of you ever went a whole month without a losing session? or maybe just 1 or 2 out of 15? i've had 4 losing sessions last month (out of only 8) - 3 of them were my first sessions - i was adjusting to the game, and 1 this month (out of 14). i must be running good?

Unless you're hitting and running for 1/4 buy in and calling it a winner, you are running amazingly well. It's very, very difficult to play ... "engaged" (?) sessions and win 13 of 14. Even if you are constantly getting $ in as an 80% favorite, you're going to lose 20% of the time. And it's REALLY HARD to get $ in constantly over a session as an 80% favorite. I don't care who you're playing against.

[trystero 0]

I'm lucky to have a day w/out a losing session

[shynepo3 0]

Unless you're hitting and running for 1/4 buy in and calling it a winner, you are running amazingly well. It's very, very difficult to play ... "engaged" (?) sessions and win 13 of 14. Even if you are constantly getting $ in as an 80% favorite, you're going to lose 20% of the time. And it's REALLY HARD to get $ in constantly over a session as an 80% favorite. I don't care who you're playing against.

honestly, i dont play long sessions. i just dont have the time. i'm lucky to get to 5 hours. most of the time, it's 3-4. there has been the occasional 1.5 hr, but it's usually due to the table breaking. i dont hit and run, everyone knows i dont play long cause i have family to run to (especially when your wife doesnt know you're playing, lol). ironically, my longest session this month was 6 hours, and it was my biggest win.i've played 43.75 hours over the span of 15 sessions this month.

[shynepo3 0]

I'm lucky to have a day w/out a losing session

but you usually come out ahead in the day/week/month? break even player? losing player?

[mtdesmoines 3]

honestly, i dont play long sessions. i just dont have the time. i'm lucky to get to 5 hours. most of the time, it's 3-4. there has been the occasional 1.5 hr, but it's usually due to the table breaking. i dont hit and run, everyone knows i dont play long cause i have family to run to (especially when your wife doesnt know you're playing, lol). ironically, my longest session this month was 6 hours, and it was my biggest win.i've played 43.75 hours over the span of 15 sessions this month.

How does this work. And I'm serious.

[trystero 0]

but you usually come out ahead in the day/week/month? break even player? losing player?

oh yeah, I don't think there's a losing player who posts here. But when you're playing online it's very common to go on prolonged breakeven stretches. You're just playing so many more hands and logging more sessions. Like if you're playing 3k hands a day, then you might do 3 sessions of 1,000 hands each, and it's not unusual to have at least one of those sessions be a loser, or even the whole day.

[shynepo3 0]

How does this work. And I'm serious.

? What do you mean exactly? She doesnt know I play poker..simple as that. Why the interest?

[shynepo3 0]

oh yeah, I don't think there's a losing player who posts here. But when you're playing online it's very common to go on prolonged breakeven stretches. You're just playing so many more hands and logging more sessions. Like if you're playing 3k hands a day, then you might do 3 sessions of 1,000 hands each, and it's not unusual to have at least one of those sessions be a loser, or even the whole day.

I figured that. I guess with online, with a lot of interruptions, you could break a 6 hour session into 4 mini sessions..I think that would fit my schedule perfectly..

[mtdesmoines 3]

? What do you mean exactly? She doesnt know I play poker..simple as that. Why the interest?

Where were you for six hours?

[shynepo3 0]

Where were you for six hours?

yeah, i've been claiming a lot of back logged work..i know it's wrong. it's jsut that a long time ago (over a decade ago), when i was beginning to learn the game (and a naive 18 year old), i went thru a compulsive gambler phase and lost a ton - we were just dating back then...she does not want to go thru that again. apparently, she believes that now, even though i have a career, kids,home life etc. ..that i can fall back into the trap of chasing my losses and all those other compulsive gambler tendencies..my hope is to 1 day suprise her by paying off all or a good chunk of our debt with poker winnings...then maybe she'll be ok with it.....it's a long shot from me achieving it, but u never know, with good bankroll managment, game selection...etci know, it's wrong..

[trystero 0]

she'll probably be mad at you for sneaking behind her back to play poker. she'll see the winnings as nothing but an illusion that'll bring you back to where you were before. imo

[mtdesmoines 3]

yeah, i've been claiming a lot of back logged work..i know it's wrong. it's jsut that a long time ago (over a decade ago), when i was beginning to learn the game (and a naive 18 year old), i went thru a compulsive gambler phase and lost a ton - we were just dating back then...she does not want to go thru that again. apparently, she believes that now, even though i have a career, kids,home life etc. ..that i can fall back into the trap of chasing my losses and all those other compulsive gambler tendencies..my hope is to 1 day suprise her by paying off all or a good chunk of our debt with poker winnings...then maybe she'll be ok with it.....it's a long shot from me achieving it, but u never know, with good bankroll managment, game selection...etci know, it's wrong..

This is a -EV strategy IMO