What Is The Call? Who Wins? Help

[integra93ls 0]

ok we play a $40 buy in cash game.there are 2 players in pot.player J & Bplayer J is all in on the turnplayer B calls and has player J coveredplayer J flips over his hand before the river is dealt and shows a full house 4's over 2'sriver is dealtplayer B flips hand face up and says to player J you got it.so player J rakes in the pot and the cards are collected to shuffle up.then player B says wait i had a bigger full house on the river.player J already has chips in his stack and says i did not even see your cards cuz you said you got it.another player from table confirms that player B did get a bigger fullhouse on river but player B did not realize until action was dead.who wins the pot? what is the correct call?

[ghostlove 0]

edit: misread.you said player B's hand was flipped face up ? in a casino if the hand is flipped face up and thrown into the center it is still live, so player B should have won.the fact that the cards were collected, i dont know, someone whould have said something. if this is a friendly game, then give pot to player b. cutthroat game player a keeps. maybe split pot?

[integra93ls 0]

edit: misread.you said player B's hand was flipped face up ? in a casino if the hand is flipped face up and thrown into the center it is still live, so player B should have won.the fact that the cards were collected, i dont know, someone whould have said something. if this is a friendly game, then give pot to player b. cutthroat game player a keeps. maybe split pot?

now if in the casino and the dealer did not see it as well who would win??

[trystero 0]

cards speak, so if player b turned up his cards then he's entitled to the pot. That's what should've happened. He isn't if he throws his cards into the muck and then scrambles to collect them afterward saying that he hadn't seen the fullhouse.

now if in the casino and the dealer did not see it as well who would win??

You have to give player j the pot because ultimately it's the player's responsibility to call his hand, and there's no way now that his hand's been mucked to ascertain that he had a better FH. But what were you all looking at? His cards were showing and no one bothered to say "hey you have a higher fh ya know" until AFTERWARD?

[dead money 1]

You have to give player j the pot because ultimately it's the player's responsibility to call his hand, and there's no way now that his hand's been mucked to ascertain that he had a better FH. But what were you all looking at? His cards were showing and no one bothered to say "hey you have a higher fh ya know" until AFTERWARD?

Player is not responsible to call his hand. Once he flips his hand face up then the cards speak. He can say he has nothing but if he flips his hand up and that is not the case then his hand is whatever it is. Now if the dealer did not see it then it is up to floor to make a decision. You said only 1 person spoke up to say he indeed had the best hand. Nobody else agreed? If no one else collaborated then most likely floor would award pot to player J. However if the majority of the table agrees then floor and dealer would probably award player B the pot. The game should be fair. If someone rightfully wins then they should be awarded the pot and it is in the games best interest to make that happen. It doesnt always work out that way but it should be everyones goal.

[trystero 0]

Yes the cards speak. When you flip the cards up it doesn't matter what you say; the dealer should be able to read the hands correctly and award the pot fairly. But if the dealer misreads the hand, you say nothing to correct it, and the cards find their way into the muck then you lose the pot because ultimately it is YOUR responsibility to know what you have and to speak up. There's no way you take player b at his word afterward that he had the best hand. And just because some guy at the table agreed with him doesn't mean anything. Once his cards hit the muck it's too late to act.

[dead money 1]

Yes the cards speak. When you flip the cards up it doesn't matter what you say; the dealer should be able to read the hands correctly and award the pot fairly. But if the dealer misreads the hand, you say nothing to correct it, and the cards find their way into the muck then you lose the pot because ultimately it is YOUR responsibility to know what you have and to speak up. There's no way you take player b at his word afterward that he had the best hand. And just because some guy at the table agreed with him doesn't mean anything. Once his cards hit the muck it's too late to act.

That is incorrect. Ive seen it happen more then once. If player misreads his hand and realizes later that he indeed had the best hand and the majority of the players at the table agree then it is very likely that a floor person would do their best to recreate the pot and award it to player B. It varies from floor to floor, but you are not right in the fact that player B would lose the pot. He may lose the pot, but he has a very good chance of winning it if the floor makes the correct decision. Now, based on the hand and the way its been explained, I dont see a floor person making that call with only 1 player at the table agreeing with player B. The job of a floor person is to keep the game fair and fun for everyone. It would not be fair to award a pot to the wrong person and that would not make the game very fun if players new they could make an honest mistake and be punished for it. Therefore a floor person does the most he can to make sure the game is run as fair as possible. To do anything else would be poor buisness.

[trystero 0]

You play live a lot so I'll defer to you. Still in this case I think it's unreasonable to award player b the pot, and in general I don't think it's a good idea to go roaming through the muck for winners

[integra93ls 0]

well also player b was the one who was dealing the cards. so he should have known what his cards were.

[ghostlove 0]

so he collected his own hand and then said he won? i call shenanigans! just have everyone be more careful next time. it doesnt seem like someone ended up getting shot in this situation, so use it as a learning experience!

[dead money 1]

You play live a lot so I'll defer to you. Still in this case I think it's unreasonable to award player b the pot, and in general I don't think it's a good idea to go roaming through the muck for winners

I do play a lot live. Im thinking close to 4,000 hours since I turned 21 six years ago. Im also good friends with 4 or 5 current and former AC dealers. This is how a casino would view it. They deal with these situations individually. Its not one hard and fast rule. Sometimes the floor has to make a judgment based on situation. All situations are different and require alternate possibilities. But you are very correct that in this case, based on the limited info we were given, player B should not be awarded the pot.

[integra93ls 0]

so he collected his own hand and then said he won? i call shenanigans! just have everyone be more careful next time. it doesnt seem like someone ended up getting shot in this situation, so use it as a learning experience!

no player B was the dealer and did not relize his own cards.the result from the hand was they ended up splitting the pot even though player J did not think that was the right call.

[imuck 0]

player B flips hand face up and says to player J you got it.

Since player B flipped his hand face up, he should win the hand, and take the pot. However, if he had mucked his hand, then even if he realized later, player J should get the chips.

[rrumsey 0]

i think spilt is the most fair thing, player B made a screwup but player A should have lost his stack if he is telling the truth, therefore split sounds kinda fair. if he makes a habit of this, kick his ass and get him thrown out