jmbreslin 0 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Holy hell, I've completely lost track of this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Holy hell, I've completely lost track of this thread.It's a chatroom Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 I don't really like the root beer there Cobalt OOP because that board just smacks him in his face and he can happily float a ton of backdoor draws etcOh...I'm not advocating it's definitely the best play. Just an option. Like, I'm always surprised at how often I go ahead and win with my small flop c-bet. If we get raised, we can fold or come over the top if we choose. If we get flatted, we have a decent number of options on the turn.Granted, the board texture/stack sizes/hand here are much better than in that hand, but this really is one of my of my favorite things...v1.11Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.50/$1 - 6 playersSB: $100.80 (Hero)BB: $198.00 UTG: $187.50 UTG+1: $345.90 CO: $100.00 Button: $146.55 Preflop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with : : (6 players)3 folds, Button raises to $3, Hero raises to $11, BB folds, Button calls $8Flop: ($23.00) : : : (2 players)Hero bets $6, Button raises to $15, Hero raises to $89.80, and is all in, Button foldsHero won $50.35(Rake: $2.65)Also, it's possibly wrong, but I call with the 88 a decent chunk of the time. If villain's 3-betting that much, I also expect him to be barreling a lot...especially in position. I know that the general consensus is that if villain's loose, he'll have less to pay us off with, but when someone's spewing that much, I don't expect that to be a huge consideration (I believe we're getting the correct implied). You guys keep noting terrible boards for our hand, but there are decent non-set boards too. If this were a competent LAG, I think folding can be correct, but I don't think that's what we're likely dealing with. All that said, I also don't mind 4-bet/call. Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Could always root beer it.what does that mean? Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 what does that mean?that boy needs therapyIt's a concept (I believe) Raptor thought up, and it's basically where instead of cbetting the usual 50%+ of pot, you cbet a much smaller amount, around 1/3. This is to give you more room to play on later streets and to allow your opponent to get confused and basically spazz out, whilst making your bets cheaper.And yeah cobalt it's a ton better on that flop, although you're not repping a ton by jamming imo.Again for flatting the 88 OOP. Like, you have to remember that even if you flat once and call down or whatever, meta-game wise that will only work once, and it's almost certainly only marginally +ev, if at all. Once he sees that and adjusts, you're never going to really show a profit with it again vs that player. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 what does that mean? I haven’t played a ton of nl lately. Maybe I’ll make up a cool hand.Oooooh actually, I’ll tell you about a play I like. I didn’t name it but I think I’ll call it the ‘Root Beer’.$10k stacks.Loose semi-aggro decent player opens to $350 from the HJ at 50/100. I make it $1300 from SB with AJss or KK.Flop T54 two spades. ($2700)I give him the root beer and bet $650He usually won’t have a hand, but he won’t want to fold for $650 into that pot. So he can either return my root beer and make it $2500 (I shove, he folds usually), or he can make a float.Let’s say he chooses to float, which he will fairly often.Turn Qo or T or 7o, or whatever.There are two options I like on the turn after I root beer the flop.One is a check shove. That’s kind’ve the logical one, right? We’ve forced them to float, so we should let them bluff. But sometimes they check behind, and sometimes they have a weak made hand.What I like to do more is bet $1500 into the $4000.What usually happens is that they fold, since they don’t have a hand. But a lot of times what happens is they think “hmmmm I can’t call this, I have 4 outs/no outs/bottom pair. But why did I float then? To take away this pot. RAISE”They make it $4k and I shove and they fold. Tada!It also works nicely with bluffs because you lay yourself a nice price. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Again for flatting the 88 OOP. Like, you have to remember that even if you flat once and call down or whatever, meta-game wise that will only work once, and it's almost certainly only marginally +ev, if at all. Once he sees that and adjusts, you're never going to really show a profit with it again vs that player.Assuming the next time we get in that spot we're holding the same type of hand Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 that boy needs therapyIt's a concept (I believe) Raptor thought up, and it's basically where instead of cbetting the usual 50%+ of pot, you cbet a much smaller amount, around 1/3. This is to give you more room to play on later streets and to allow your opponent to get confused and basically spazz out, whilst making your bets cheaper.And yeah cobalt it's a ton better on that flop, although you're not repping a ton by jamming imo.Again for flatting the 88 OOP. Like, you have to remember that even if you flat once and call down or whatever, meta-game wise that will only work once, and it's almost certainly only marginally +ev, if at all. Once he sees that and adjusts, you're never going to really show a profit with it again vs that player.Mr Gelfond gave it the name root beer and explained it in his well. Ninja Ace is quoting the original well post.nice reference babylondonks, Didn't need the photo though Link to post Share on other sites
Stupidhead 2 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Calling with hands like 88 to 3bets OOP just leaves us in rly rly gross spots. I'm all for playing back against light 3betters, but it's not going to be easy calling multiple barrels and be confident that we're ahead. How would we handle a double barrel on a Q65J board? AKQ4? K1057? Even boards like K752? Q623? The times we are ever super comfortable is when we manage to have an overpair, which is so so rare.For players grinding the lower limits, this is a spot where I'd just fold and save ourselves the trouble. If we want to call, we have to be able to put villain on a range of hands he can have, and know which types of boards he will fire air at. Against someone I don't have much history with, I'd just fold because I'd just be guessing and making too many mistakes. But against a reg that I've seen many times, I'll know if he folds to check-raises a lot, if he's only capable of firing 1 barrel, or if he's going to be barrelling ATC on any board. So if we have a solid enough read on our opponent and we have enough experience to know what to do on most/all boards, I'd at least see a flop.And against a maniac I'd much rather 4bet/get it in rather than calling. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 pretty sure we did ainecsighhhh my pc just like frozeee and nothing works except for stars and firefox. I have an important tourney to mincash damnit Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 pretty sure we did ainecsighhhh my pc just like frozeee and nothing works except for stars and firefox. I have an important tourney to mincash damnitlay off the pornreformat time Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 The times we are ever super comfortable is when we manage to have an overpair, which is so so rare.Actually, these are probably the WORST boards to be facing a double barrel imothe boards we like facing a double barrel that are non set include single overcard boards, any paired board, any board which gives us a straight draw, gutter or otherwise, and medium drawy boards (non-broadway) Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 yeah I agree, 45273 boards would make me cry with 88.Also ffs how does a tourney with a 15k prizepool only pay 2.7k to first Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 wtf I thought first was a mandatory 30% now a days... ghey Link to post Share on other sites
Stupidhead 2 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Actually, these are probably the WORST boards to be facing a double barrel imothe boards we like facing a double barrel that are non set include single overcard boards, any paired board, any board which gives us a straight draw, gutter or otherwise, and medium drawy boards (non-broadway)Yea I agree. Didn't think completely through on that.Though I think that enforces the point that a ton of boards suck to call down on. Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 playing 88 oop against a maniac is easy. It is all about not folding and inducing. v1.11Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em t30/t60 - 2 playersButton Hero: t1,770 BB Duffmanx69: t1,230 Preflop: (t90) Hero is Button with : : (2 players)Hero raises to t144, Duffmanx69 calls t84Flop: (t288) : : : (2 players)Duffmanx69 checks, Hero bets t60, Duffmanx69 raises to t255, Hero raises to t455, Duffmanx69 raises to t1,086, and is all in, Hero calls t631Turn: (t2,460) : (2 players)River: (t2,460) : (2 players)Hero showed : :, and won (2,460) with a pair of FoursDuffmanx69 showed : :, and lost with a pair of TwosHero won t2,460 Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 the best part about that hand is that you're OOP...o wait Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 the best part about that hand is that you're OOP...o waitIt is also 44. Your point being ? Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 well I was wondering why you posted the hand and the only conclusion I could come to was that you were giving an example of being OOP with a weak 1 pair hand and holding onto your nuts as you call down Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Though I think that enforces the point that a ton of boards suck to call down on.Calling down always sucks, really... and yeah it's pretty much a guessing game. What you have to realize is these hyper aggro players are often checking back turns when they have total air with 0 equity and hands with medium strength showdown value, like top pair or a low pocket pair. You almost never see them bet the flop when they flop trips (sets are fast played more but not as often... and top set is like never fast played except on monotone boards). The only made hands you usually see 2 barrels from are 2 pairs, turned straights/flushes, and overpairs on "safe" boards. So just use deductive reasoning to figure out what boards have a low amount of "monsters" they could be fast playing Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 wtf fighter... this hand is closer to what we're talking about... and yet i don't has a pair and am the preflop aggressorFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersBB: $29.38 (Hero)UTG: $25.35 CO: $26.56 Button: $38.78 SB: $26.47 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with (5 players)2 folds, Button raises to $0.84, SB folds, Hero raises to $2.50, Button calls $1.66Flop: ($5.10) (2 players)Hero bets $3, Button calls $3Turn: ($11.10) (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $5.64, Hero calls $5.64River: ($22.38) (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $19.08, Hero calls $18.24, and is all inHero showed , and won ($55.92) with two pair, Tens and FivesButton showed , and lost with two pair, Tens and FivesHero won $55.92(Rake: $2.94) Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 goddamnit I raised AQ a big stack 3b small, I PTR him and insta see he has accounts on 3 sites and jam and he has QQ and I don't get there :(16/20edit: out, busted to like the worst player ever who doubled through me 3 times previously and is now the chipleader Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 well I was wondering why you posted the hand and the only conclusion I could come to was that you were giving an example of being OOP with a weak 1 pair hand and holding onto your nuts as you call downIt was awtf fighter... this hand is closer to what we're talking about... and yet i don't has a pair and am the preflop aggressorFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersBB: $29.38 (Hero)UTG: $25.35 CO: $26.56 Button: $38.78 SB: $26.47 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with (5 players)2 folds, Button raises to $0.84, SB folds, Hero raises to $2.50, Button calls $1.66Flop: ($5.10) (2 players)Hero bets $3, Button calls $3Turn: ($11.10) (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $5.64, Hero calls $5.64River: ($22.38) (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $19.08, Hero calls $18.24, and is all inHero showed , and won ($55.92) with two pair, Tens and FivesButton showed , and lost with two pair, Tens and FivesHero won $55.92(Rake: $2.94)Youre opponent played that awful. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 The last two days: The mis-click: tbh I was gonna check, but was contemplating betting .80, then I bet $8... whoops!Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.05/$0.10 - 6 playersUTG: $11.20 UTG+1: $10.00 (Hero)CO: $10.93 Button: $12.25 SB: $10.00 BB: $10.75 Preflop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+1 with (6 players)UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.35, 3 folds, BB calls $0.25Flop: ($0.75) (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $0.40, BB calls $0.40Turn: ($1.55) (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $10, and is all in, Hero calls $1.25, and is all inRiver: ($20.05) (2 players)Hero showed , and lost with King Queen highBB showed , and won ($18.72) with three of a kind, TensBB won $18.72(Rake: $1.33) Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LIG9SGM8Be warned; it's very long* and I am terrible at poker.I apologize in advance if you chose to watch it.*a little over an hour i believe Link to post Share on other sites
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