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So that IS you playing rush. Saw the name a lot lately (but now at 100NL, so I guess you've moved up?), was wondering if it was you. You're not all that much fun to play against, but its somewhat offset by the whole 'reset dynamics after each hand' set up. As for Iron Man - yea, Rush, especially if you can play during rush happy hour, is really a great way to keep your status. If its a day where I'm not really in to playing or the tables aren't good, 30mins during happy hour for the 200 points, and then save my heavy grinding days for when I'm focused.14th month in a row of Iron level, holding out hope that they come through with their promise to upgrade the Iron Man program.
I have "moved up" for the most part, yeah. =) I knew I recognized your name too, but I couldn't remember if it was just from playing Rush or elsewhere. I do recall noticing your stack and play being pretty tough/solid. Trying to remember if we've played any hands of note.I did get sort of kicked in the teeth yesterday afternoon...played like 3 hours and dumped 7.5 buyins with KK < AA, KK < QQ, AK < KK, QQ < KK, AA < AA, KK < 97o, and flop trips < flop 7-high no draws. Also had to make some sort of ridiculous laydowns with overpairs. Oh...actually, now that I'm thinking about it...was that KK < AA against you? (A third guy couldn't get away from JJ in the easiest spot ever.)That said, I made a good bit back last night.
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This deserves to get seen by a few more people. From our resident Stupidhead...v1.27Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterHEM/Poker Stars NL Hold'em $1.00/$2.00 - 6 playersButton: $237.98SB: $200.00BB: $60.00

I remember when this thread was all about how bad KJ was at 3betting

He's probably not flatting KJ's raise otf if he had a2. Besides, A2 is such a small portion of his range here, we are never ever ever ever ever ever ever folding the turn. People are stupid, they do

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I have "moved up" for the most part, yeah. =) I knew I recognized your name too, but I couldn't remember if it was just from playing Rush or elsewhere. I do recall noticing your stack and play being pretty tough/solid. Trying to remember if we've played any hands of note.I did get sort of kicked in the teeth yesterday afternoon...played like 3 hours and dumped 7.5 buyins with KK < AA, KK < QQ, AK < KK, QQ < KK, AA < AA, KK < 97o, and flop trips < flop 7-high no draws. Also had to make some sort of ridiculous laydowns with overpairs. Oh...actually, now that I'm thinking about it...was that KK < AA against you? (A third guy couldn't get away from JJ in the easiest spot ever.)That said, I made a good bit back last night.
Yea, that was me. That was really well played by the JJ guy. UTG opens, UTG+1 3bets, he CCs in MP, UTG 4-bets, UTG+1 shoves, well, they both have AK, I'm a huge favourite!But, to your other part - the swongs in rush are the worst. You can be having a great session and in the last 15 minutes dump off 3 buy ins without even noticing. Or, you can do what I prefer to do, and start out stuck 10 buy ins, go into hyper tilt mode (which works surprisingly well in rush), and get it all back quickly. Definitely helps raise your pain threshold.small edit: I would say the swongs are mostly due to the fact that they could change Rush Poker ™ to 3-Bet Poker ™, and it would still be fairly accurate. I think its funny to see so many regs play so exploitably with their high 3-bet % AND their really poor 3-bet/4-bet sizing. Nothing better than opening for 2.5 or 3x otb and having some reg 3-bet to 12+bbs.
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Something else that I've noticed about Rush is that sometimes shorter stacks will just open-shove for 18bb or more...and it's almost always a junky ace or king. Like, I noticed a guy open-shoved for 35bb UTG (6-max) the other day. It folded to me with AJs on the button. I didn't quite snap-call him per se, but I was pretty comfortable making that call. He had KQo. We chopped when the board came 99898.The 3-bet/4-bet dynamic that you're talking about has been pretty interesting. When I'm working on 100bb stacks, it has forced me to get a lot better at that aspect of the game. As I get deeper, I tend to revert back to seeing more flops.Further on that KK < AA hand...when you 4-bet me, I really wasn't happy and kicked myself for 3-betting. Like, a small part of me definitely wanted to fold. Debating if it's possible. It definitely isn't an easy thing. Think you might've played AK or QQ like that?

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Something else that I've noticed about Rush is that sometimes shorter stacks will just open-shove for 18bb or more...and it's almost always a junky ace or king. Like, I noticed a guy open-shoved for 35bb UTG (6-max) the other day. It folded to me with AJs on the button. I didn't quite snap-call him per se, but I was pretty comfortable making that call. He had KQo. We chopped when the board came 99898.The 3-bet/4-bet dynamic that you're talking about has been pretty interesting. When I'm working on 100bb stacks, it has forced me to get a lot better at that aspect of the game. As I get deeper, I tend to revert back to seeing more flops.
Yea, this is an interesting side effect. There's obviously a lot of bad play at normal 50, 100 and 200NL. But, for some unknown reason, in rush people do completely insane things. I think, perhaps, the quick pace of the game intensifies the tilt factor for some players. It's moving so fast that you don't realize that you are losing your mind. Example: I hit a set over set against a reg. Over the next 5 minutes he 3-bet jammed over my normal opens with QTos, 98s, and 47os. I have like 5000 hands on the guy and have never seen him tilt before. Also see a lot more really insane bluffing. Maybe it has to do with the increased pot sizes due to the extra 3-betting, but I've seen a ton of pots where a player puts in like 75% of their stack and then folds with card(s) to come.As for the dynamic - yea, its interesting. I don't know how it will translate to non-rush. I've always been bad at the 3-betting aspect of poker, its my biggest leak. I'm hoping Rush has improved that aspect of my game. I'm certainly getting a ton of practice. Also helping is now that *I'M* 3-betting more, and seeing more lines taken against that, it's given me some insight into what people are thinking when they 3-bet me and I call or raise them. One thing I'll add, and I think this really helps get extra action - if you raise smaller, 3-bet smaller, and 4-bet smaller than your average reg (ie, don't press pot or go bigger than pot, unless the situation calls for it) people always think you're bluffing. Example, my 3-bets are always to just 9bb, given 100bb stacks. And my 4-bets are usually to around 20ish bbs (if its heads up and the 3-bet wasn't huge. If they 3-bet to like 12bbs, then i have to make it bigger, otherwise they are getting insane odds to crush my soul). People see the smaller bet size and think 'omg, room to bluff!', and then just start shoving.Only problem is when you go like 3 days in a row where you're running into the top of everyone's range and you have like AQ/AJ/JJ, and you get a nice, red ass from the beating.
Further on that KK < AA hand...when you 4-bet me, I really wasn't happy and kicked myself for 3-betting. Like, a small part of me definitely wanted to fold. Debating if it's possible. It definitely isn't an easy thing. Think you might've played AK or QQ like that?
I don't want to become too exploitable and give away the family secrets, but I'll say this - I would have folded AK pretty quickly in that spot. You're solid, you don't get out of line, and you're 3-betting my UTG raise from UTG+1. Your range is super narrow in that spot.The JJ guy brought an interesting dynamic to the hand. He seemed content with calling and never raising, if you had CCed my open and then he CCs, I wonder what happens on a 775 board with him in there. I guess, however, there's a chance that, at that point, we would have gotten squeezed by someone later in the hand, don't remember that specific table at the moment.Also, his cold call makes it hard to not widen my 4-betting range just a tad. I mean, its a gross spot to 4-bet squeeze as a bluff, but I've seen stranger things in rush. It's definitely a gross spot just given the fact that you and I are two of the less laggy preflop players.
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Also see a lot more really insane bluffing.
I've noticed that at least a few times recently. Like, I can think of two hands where I opened with a big ace in the SB and BB calls me with junk (92s and something equally strange), raises an Axx flop against my c-bet, barrels the turn, and shoves the river. Hands like those somewhat screw with my ability to lay much of anything down. =)
I don't want to become too exploitable and give away the family secrets, but I'll say this - I would have folded AK pretty quickly in that spot. You're solid, you don't get out of line, and you're 3-betting my UTG raise from UTG+1. Your range is super narrow in that spot.
Yeah...that's why I think I might hate my 3-bet. Just screams a narrow range.
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One thing I'll add, and I think this really helps get extra action - if you raise smaller, 3-bet smaller, and 4-bet smaller than your average reg (ie, don't press pot or go bigger than pot, unless the situation calls for it) people always think you're bluffing. Example, my 3-bets are always to just 9bb, given 100bb stacks. And my 4-bets are usually to around 20ish bbs (if its heads up and the 3-bet wasn't huge. If they 3-bet to like 12bbs, then i have to make it bigger, otherwise they are getting insane odds to crush my soul). People see the smaller bet size and think 'omg, room to bluff!', and then just start shoving.
I hope you realize this isn't isolated just to Rush poker... but if you have a post-flop edge on a player you should almost never be trying to get giant raises in preflop. The other thing with 3betting and 4betting smaller is that you can open your range more effectively... when you're mashing the pot button 4betting with AQ doesn't sound too hot
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I run gootferal_cow_icon.gifFeral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersBB: $25.00 (Hero)UTG: $73.44 UTG+1: $47.32 CO: $29.45 Button: $24.74 SB: $24.79 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with Ac.gifAs.gif (6 players)UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Button calls $0.25, SB calls $0.15, Hero raises to $1.50, UTG folds, Button calls $1.25, SB foldsFlop: ($3.50) 4d.gif5d.gifAd.gif (2 players)Hero bets $3.50, Button raises to $11.84, Hero raises to $23.50, and is all in, Button calls $11.40, and is all inTurn: ($49.98) 3c.gif (2 players)River: ($49.98) 2s.gif (2 players)Hero showed Ac.gifAs.gif, and won ($23.75) with a straight, Five highButton showed 5c.gif4c.gif, and won ($23.74) with a straight, Five highHero won $23.75Button won $23.74(Rake: $2.49)

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Thank you?feral_cow_icon.gifFeral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersUTG: $31.87 (Hero)UTG+1: $25.44 CO: $28.14 Button: $22.60 SB: $37.66 BB: $25.00 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with Kc.gifKh.gif (6 players)Hero raises to $0.75, UTG+1 calls $0.75, 4 foldsFlop: ($1.85) Jd.gifQs.gif9d.gif (2 players)Hero bets $1.85, UTG+1 calls $1.85Turn: ($5.55) 4c.gif (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 checksRiver: ($5.55) 6h.gif (2 players)Hero bets $3, UTG+1 calls $3Hero showed Kc.gifKh.gif, and lost with a pair of KingsUTG+1 showed As.gifAh.gif, and won ($10.98) with a pair of AcesUTG+1 won $10.98(Rake: $0.57)

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I lose to AA, QQ, JJ, AQ, AJ both on the flop and the turn. I don't know how often he's gonna have one of those hands but i tend to believe that he's more likely in that range if he called my 3-bet. I can only get value from like... A10, Kings and maybe Q10 or J10? Or to be fair a couple of hands a donk would overplay there like any mid-ace he would actually call a 3-bet with (he was a winning player over something like 80k hands so i at least give credits for not being a massive lagtard). We are both pretty deep and i'm out of position on this, well, not draw heavy but certainly dangerous board so i don't want to commit myself to the pot. So i'm either way behind or way ahead on the turn. If i bet and he folds, then i win a pot i was pretty much destined to win anyway. If i bet and he calls, i'm still unsure if he's ahead or behind; i simply increased the pot in the process and may commit myself if he raises. So i thought i would just check/call it down. This way, i might get value from the hands i beat that he wouldn't call with otherwise (he's pretty aggro). The flaw is that i might win a small pot against A10 but lose a big one against AQ but that doesn't seem as bad as losing a bigger pot if he has QQ/JJ or winning the pot as it is if i bet, which is as small as i can win it.I might have gave him too much credits on his range tho. I might also have a flawed logic, even though it seems to make sense to me.
i dont think u lose to AA here, ever. if u think he called with a mid ace like A 10 or under then u should be betting the flop and turn for sure, u said he might have Q 10 and J 10, u have blockers to his straight and the times that he does hit it u have the nuts so u def need to be putting more money in the pot.
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Thank you?feral_cow_icon.gifFeral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersUTG: $31.87 (Hero)UTG+1: $25.44 CO: $28.14 Button: $22.60 SB: $37.66 BB: $25.00 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with Kc.gifKh.gif (6 players)Hero raises to $0.75, UTG+1 calls $0.75, 4 foldsFlop: ($1.85) Jd.gifQs.gif9d.gif (2 players)Hero bets $1.85, UTG+1 calls $1.85Turn: ($5.55) 4c.gif (2 players)Hero checks, UTG+1 checksRiver: ($5.55) 6h.gif (2 players)Hero bets $3, UTG+1 calls $3Hero showed Kc.gifKh.gif, and lost with a pair of KingsUTG+1 showed As.gifAh.gif, and won ($10.98) with a pair of AcesUTG+1 won $10.98(Rake: $0.57)
I can kinda see his logic...3-betting UTG from UTG+1 is always super strong, and that flop is frightening for dry aces.
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I can kinda see his logic...3-betting UTG from UTG+1 is always super strong, and that flop is frightening for dry aces.
if the hands were reversed and he had kings I would be much more willing to understand this
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i dont think u lose to AA here, ever. if u think he called with a mid ace like A 10 or under then u should be betting the flop and turn for sure, u said he might have Q 10 and J 10, u have blockers to his straight and the times that he does hit it u have the nuts so u def need to be putting more money in the pot.
Huh, oh yeah of course he never has AA on the turn (**** me). I don't think he called with A10 or might have called with Q10 or J10; i just believe i simply can't take it out of his range here. Chances are he's still holding something that has me beat (unless i give him too much credits on his preflop play). But even then, my issue with betting is that all the hand that has me beat are not going anywhere; i can't say the same about those i do have beat.
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villain is an aggrotard reg although we personally haven't tangled yet.we hafta c/f right? I was considering a c/r ai...Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($10)CO ($11.99)Button ($11.48)SB ($14.57)Hero (BB) ($11.27)UTG ($28.49)Preflop: Hero is BB with K :club:, A :ts2 folds, CO calls $0.10, Button bets $0.45, SB calls $0.40, Hero raises to $1.60, 1 fold, Button calls $1.15, 1 foldFlop: ($3.75) 4 :4h, 5 :5c, 7 :3h(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $2.50, Hero foldsTotal pot: $3.75 | Rake: $0.25

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your latest installment in lolredline@microsFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP ($13.27)CO ($7.29)Button ($15.98)SB ($10)BB ($10)Hero (UTG) ($10.06)Preflop: Hero is UTG with A :D, A :club:Hero bets $0.30, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2, CO calls $1.50Flop: ($4.15) A :3h, 10 :ts, J :jh(2 players)Hero checks, CO checksTurn: ($4.15) 10 :D(2 players)Hero checks, CO checksRiver: ($4.15) 6 :4h(2 players)Hero bets $3, CO calls $3Total pot: $10.15 | Rake: $0.67Results:Hero had A :D, A :5c (full house, Aces over tens).CO had K :qh, 8 :D (one pair, tens).Outcome: Hero won $9.48

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what's his fold to c-bet on flop and turn?
hey I just got my hem too, **** postgres fwiw...sixteen .exes runningI was looking more at board, because his fold to c/bet % gives it away, just 30%no significant sample for a turn
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I hope you realize this isn't isolated just to Rush poker... but if you have a post-flop edge on a player you should almost never be trying to get giant raises in preflop. The other thing with 3betting and 4betting smaller is that you can open your range more effectively... when you're mashing the pot button 4betting with AQ doesn't sound too hot
I understand nothing about poker, so any advice is welcomed.That had nothing to do with what I was saying, though.I was saying that in rush poker, people spaz out to smaller raises on a much larger scale than at just a normal ring game. I'd like to hear more about ranges and post-flop edge, though.
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Well then I definitely wouldn't be reading anything he writesAlso the argument for folding AK there, I would probably fold AK against like nobody. If you give him credit for being a good player you have to also give him credit for being able to 3b light in that spot for purely that reason. Similarly if you think somebody's a bad player they can 3bet all sorts of retarded hands like AQ or w/e. Like even against a range of AA/KK/QQ/AK, AK has 40% equity which makes it close. Meh it's prob fine but like, I just love how preflop has turned into the nit war in a lot of spots and ranges just get progressively tighter. Like OMG he only 3bets AA-QQ/AK I better only 4bet AA/KK, etc. Not saying that was your thought process there, but I think it is a big big leak of non-optimal thinking by a lot of ssnl players.

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I understand nothing about poker, so any advice is welcomed.That had nothing to do with what I was saying, though.I was saying that in rush poker, people spaz out to smaller raises on a much larger scale than at just a normal ring game. I'd like to hear more about ranges and post-flop edge, though.
I'm not biting on this level :-pbut seriously... in general people get lost when you 3 and 4 bet smaller... for instance:feral_cow_icon.gifbeware the feral cow packs. they hunger.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersButton: $25.00 SB: $25.60 BB: $62.97 UTG: $36.75 (Hero)CO: $77.61 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with Ks.gifAc.gif (5 players)Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, Button raises to $2.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $6.50, Button raises to $25, and is all in, Hero calls $18.50Flop: ($50.35) 4h.gif3s.gif4c.gif (2 players)Turn: ($50.35) 8h.gif (2 players)River: ($50.35) Kc.gif (2 players)Button showed 6s.gif9d.gif, and lost with a pair of FoursHero showed Ks.gifAc.gif, and won ($47.84) with two pair, Kings and FoursHero won $47.84(Rake: $2.51)
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This one was amusing as well...feral_cow_icon.gifConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersSB: $47.80 BB: $39.59 (Hero)UTG: $26.49 UTG+1: $25.12 CO: $28.04 Button: $25.00 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with Ah.gifKc.gif (6 players)2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, CO raises to $5, Hero raises to $7.75, CO calls $2.75Flop: ($15.85) 6h.gif9c.gif3s.gif (2 players)Hero bets $9, CO foldsHero won $14.82(Rake: $0.78)

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Well then I definitely wouldn't be reading anything he writes
:club: I are do bad pokerz?
Also the argument for folding AK there, I would probably fold AK against like nobody. If you give him credit for being a good player you have to also give him credit for being able to 3b light in that spot for purely that reason. Similarly if you think somebody's a bad player they can 3bet all sorts of retarded hands like AQ or w/e. Like even against a range of AA/KK/QQ/AK, AK has 40% equity which makes it close. Meh it's prob fine but like, I just love how preflop has turned into the nit war in a lot of spots and ranges just get progressively tighter. Like OMG he only 3bets AA-QQ/AK I better only 4bet AA/KK, etc. Not saying that was your thought process there, but I think it is a big big leak of non-optimal thinking by a lot of ssnl players.
I dunno... people are 4bb wide as fakkk bvb it seems... like... if you're sitting next to a regular and you're going to share blinds... prepare to has a penis war.But in other spots yeah it's nitting up like crazy... my mind is blown to the point where sometimes I want to fold KK to a three bet and other times it seems like shoving A9o is way +EV
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I was looking more at board, because his fold to c/bet % gives it away, just 30%no significant sample for a turn
Seems like he's a floataholic... I'd c-bet... then barrel a whiff on the turn, and c-r a hit... it's an exploitable adjustment but he's probably thinking something along the lines of... ZOMG I CAN FLOATS JOOO
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I'm not biting on this level :-pbut seriously... in general people get lost when you 3 and 4 bet smaller... for instance:feral_cow_icon.gifbeware the feral cow packs. they hunger.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 5 playersButton: $25.00 SB: $25.60 BB: $62.97 UTG: $36.75 (Hero)CO: $77.61 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with Ks.gifAc.gif (5 players)Hero raises to $0.75, CO folds, Button raises to $2.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $6.50, Button raises to $25, and is all in, Hero calls $18.50Flop: ($50.35) 4h.gif3s.gif4c.gif (2 players)Turn: ($50.35) 8h.gif (2 players)River: ($50.35) Kc.gif (2 players)Button showed 6s.gif9d.gif, and lost with a pair of FoursHero showed Ks.gifAc.gif, and won ($47.84) with two pair, Kings and FoursHero won $47.84(Rake: $2.51)
This 4bet is a fairly good size, I'd prob make it a tad smaller
This one was amusing as well...feral_cow_icon.gifConverted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersSB: $47.80 BB: $39.59 (Hero)UTG: $26.49 UTG+1: $25.12 CO: $28.04 Button: $25.00 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with Ah.gifKc.gif (6 players)2 folds, CO raises to $0.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, CO raises to $5, Hero raises to $7.75, CO calls $2.75Flop: ($15.85) 6h.gif9c.gif3s.gif (2 players)Hero bets $9, CO foldsHero won $14.82(Rake: $0.78)
However this 5bet is just ****ing retarded
:club: I are do bad pokerz?I dunno... people are 4bb wide as fakkk bvb it seems... like... if you're sitting next to a regular and you're going to share blinds... prepare to has a penis war.But in other spots yeah it's nitting up like crazy... my mind is blown to the point where sometimes I want to fold KK to a three bet and other times it seems like shoving A9o is way +EV
Yeah CO/BTN and BvB is normally a different story and a lot of retarded people are way too wide. But it's just funny that when you see two people get allin from every other position the worst hand you see is AK
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