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This deserves to get seen by a few more people. From our resident Stupidhead...v1.27Feral Cow Poker Hand ConverterHEM/Poker Stars NL Hold'em $1.00/$2.00 - 6 playersButton: $237.98SB: $200.00BB: $60.00

I remember when this thread was all about how bad KJ was at 3betting

He's probably not flatting KJ's raise otf if he had a2. Besides, A2 is such a small portion of his range here, we are never ever ever ever ever ever ever folding the turn. People are stupid, they do

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I received money from all but stupidhead NCPerrota and Babs I will ship the money i got to babs and if Mike and NC could ship to Phil whenever you get a chance that would be awesome. Congrats Phil on luck boxing, sending on FTP
whats the aussies ftp name?
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First, Congrats James on MOTM!! (Don't know if I've told you that yet or not. If so, I'll say it again!)Glad I did not 4-bet this guy. WTF was he thinking???feral_cow_icon.gifA pack of feral cows chewed their cuds for .0043 seconds to convert this handFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 9 playersMP2 xiawu73: $16.08 HJ SkyHighBG: $8.75 CO roundup77: $24.65 Button Lzardo: $12.50 SB nostradamos79: $57.81 BB Klerdune: $43.05 UTG AMerced: $25.35 UTG+1 Hero: $25.00 MP knacki65: $16.40 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG+1 with :qh:4h (9 players)AMerced folds, Hero raises to $0.75, knacki65 folds, xiawu73 raises to $1.25, 5 folds, Hero calls $0.50Flop: ($2.85) :D :D :D (2 players)Hero checks, xiawu73 bets $2.85, Hero calls $2.85Turn: ($8.55) :ts (2 players)Hero checks, xiawu73 bets $11.98, and is all in, Hero calls $11.98River: ($32.51) :club: (2 players)xiawu73 showed :D:3h, and lost with two pair, Fours and TwosHero showed :jh:5c, and won ($30.89) with two pair, Kings and TwosHero won $30.89(Rake: $1.62)

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I'm more curious as to why you didn't 4 bet the guy.
Because lately everytime I 4-bet people, they fold. I know I should have, but he was short so I was hoping he would catch something other than an A and maybe drag him out to get some more chips. I was planning on stacking off here no matter what, so I either get $1.50 PF, or $16 at the end of the hand. This is probably horrible thought process, b/c you take the chance of them drawing out on you. I am horrible at tournies, but even worse at cash games. I'm the guy you beg to come play at your table. Just posted this hand for fun, not really wanting to start an in-depth strat discussion, but I'm always up for learning though if anybody is willing to teach.
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Because lately everytime I 4-bet people, they fold. I know I should have, but he was short so I was hoping he would catch something other than an A and maybe drag him out to get some more chips. I was planning on stacking off here no matter what, so I either get $1.50 PF, or $16 at the end of the hand. This is probably horrible thought process, b/c you take the chance of them drawing out on you. I am horrible at tournies, but even worse at cash games. I'm the guy you beg to come play at your table. Just posted this hand for fun, not really wanting to start an in-depth strat discussion, but I'm always up for learning though if anybody is willing to teach.
I understand that you're still learning, but you need to get out of this mindset "I'm horrible and I know what I'm doing is completely wrong..... but here is my justification for it". You're not horrible, you're thought process is not totally wrong. Criticizing yourself any chance you get isn't going to make you feel better, or make yourself a better player. You post that a lot in your strategy hands when I'm not sure why. I don't think there is a poker player that doesn't do horrible things from time to time.But, you don't 4 bet someone because it limits the possibility of them drawing out on you. You 4-bet people either for value, or as a bluff. Obviously, in this circumstance, you would be 4betting for value. Now, the guy min-raised and he's short stacked; these two are pretty good indicators that guy isn't very good. I guess it's just a default of mine to always 4-bet people like this with my strong hands, because most of them hate folding to 4-bets. You could even 4-bet on the smaller on the side to keep him priced in. There's certainly merit to flatting 4-bets against certain people. I know there's a lot of players who like to min 3-bet, then hit the pot button on every street no matter their holding (much like this opponent). If you knew the guy was like that prior to this hand then there's certainly some merit to flatting here. Of course, under the assumption that you're rarely folding.
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I understand that you're still learning, but you need to get out of this mindset "I'm horrible and I know what I'm doing is completely wrong..... but here is my justification for it". You're not horrible, you're thought process is not totally wrong. Criticizing yourself any chance you get isn't going to make you feel better, or make yourself a better player. You post that a lot in your strategy hands when I'm not sure why. I don't think there is a poker player that doesn't do horrible things from time to time.But, you don't 4 bet someone because it limits the possibility of them drawing out on you. You 4-bet people either for value, or as a bluff. Obviously, in this circumstance, you would be 4betting for value. Now, the guy min-raised and he's short stacked; these two are pretty good indicators that guy isn't very good. I guess it's just a default of mine to always 4-bet people like this with my strong hands, because most of them hate folding to 4-bets. You could even 4-bet on the smaller on the side to keep him priced in. There's certainly merit to flatting 4-bets against certain people. I know there's a lot of players who like to min 3-bet, then hit the pot button on every street no matter their holding (much like this opponent). If you knew the guy was like that prior to this hand then there's certainly some merit to flatting here. Of course, under the assumption that you're rarely folding.
This post made me hot! Really great advice!and +1 Chris, you aren't terrible and you are improving, so keep working on the thought process and keep the self talk positive!
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Meh, I tend to call 3bets with strong hands also when I play live (for similar reasons). People play pretty passively and get scared of 4bets, but once they hit something, they become calling stations. I don't really do it online because the dynamics are different and i don't really play ring games, but I don't think it's horrible. It's all about table dynamics, I guess.

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logged a small session, only semi-interesting handwhat do we make about bet sizes. pretty weird turn bet I think, mayb eshould shove villain's taggish, 2+2er I think. Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB ($32.58)UTG ($45.91)MP ($31.04)CO ($25)Hero (Button) ($28.21)SB ($26.99)Preflop: Hero is Button with A :club:, K :tsUTG bets $0.85, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.90, 2 folds, UTG calls $2.05Flop: ($6.15) A :5c, 2 :3h, 3 :qh(2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $3.20, UTG raises to $7.25, Hero calls $4.05Turn: ($20.65) 3 :4h(2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $9.75

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floating / bluffing gone wrongonce we float otf against a std HUDBOT I think we have to fire this river; maybe not in 2010 thoughFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB ($25)UTG ($33.51)MP ($38.35)CO ($75.58)Hero (Button) ($30.94)Preflop: Hero is Button with Q :3h, K :qh2 folds, CO bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 1 foldFlop: ($1.75) 6 :4h, 3 :club:, 10 :ts(2 players)CO bets $1, Hero calls $1Turn: ($3.75) 4 :D(2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50River: ($8.75) A :jh(2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $6.25, CO calls $5.25Results:Hero had Q :D, K :D (high card, Ace).CO had 10 :5c, Q :D (one pair, tens).

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floating / bluffing gone wrongonce we float otf against a std HUDBOT I think we have to fire this river; maybe not in 2010 thoughFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB ($25)UTG ($33.51)MP ($38.35)CO ($75.58)Hero (Button) ($30.94)Preflop: Hero is Button with Q :3h, K :qh2 folds, CO bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 1 foldFlop: ($1.75) 6 :4h, 3 :club:, 10 :ts(2 players)CO bets $1, Hero calls $1Turn: ($3.75) 4 :D(2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $2.50, CO calls $2.50River: ($8.75) A :jh(2 players)CO checks, Hero bets $6.25, CO calls $5.25Results:Hero had Q :D, K :D (high card, Ace).CO had 10 :5c, Q :D (one pair, tens).
Maybe you have a bet sizing tell or line tell. This board has a flush draw on it and you are BTN vs CO. If you 3bet QQ pre and raise 1 over + flush draws, sets and JJ on flop then the only hands you have on the turn he doesn't beat are AT, KT and you might fold ATo KTo pre. If you float any two overs on flop QJs,KQ,AQ,AJ,KJs and weak flush draws then Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 25 games 0.001 secs 25,000 games/secBoard: Tc 3c 6s 4d AhDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 24.000% 24.00% 00.00% 6 0.00 { AdQd, AhQh, AsQs, AdJd, AhJh, AsJs, ATs, KdQd, KhQh, KsQs, KdJd, KhJh, KsJs, KdTd, KhTh, KsTs, QdJd, QhJh, QsJs, Jc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, KQo }Hand 1: 76.000% 76.00% 00.00% 19 0.00 { QdTs }If this is the case I would float less or play more value hands passively or Check the turn with more of your floats to take it away on the river. 2.5 on a really nothing turn seems small, It might be your standard but it could very easily look like a cheap steal after a float.
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it's basically my standard bet-size on the turn. I doubt he has any tells on me since this was like the 3rd hand we had played together postflop.in position against a semi-predictable regular I'm probably never folding two overs and a BD straight in position. I'm always firing that turn because I can apply a lot of pressure on different rivers. I got a mediocre river...I kind of have to fire the ace, because wtf am I doing floating/bluffing if I chicken out, and I can have Ax FDs. Not like he knows it, but I'd insta-value bet the Ax FD on this river. I'm not crazy about bluffing here though. Ad is much sexier.villain knows little about me, but I'm not a given to raise 12 outers on the flop. I play more multi-street poker in position, calling more than when I'm OOP. I'm also never folding AT/KT against this guy pf. I play a lot in position against HUDBOTs / predictable or passive regs. Another hand, against the same villain:I have AJo otb. Villain opens from the CO, I call and the BB calls.Flop comes A56 two hearts. BB checks, villain bets, I call.Turn is a 7d. Villain checks and I bet $4 (which is about 2/3). He calls. River is the 4d. Villain checks. I have about a PSB left. I figure this nit for Aq/AK having c/bet multiway otf and then c/cing the turn. So the question is, can I get him to fold his TPTK with a PSB, and the answer is probably not, so I opt to check instead of turning my hand into a bluff, and I ofc lose to AK. Felt wrong because I had a bluffer's image, and I felt like I should've gotten paid from it, but given the action and the board I see no way that he'll pay me off with worse. 4h would probably have cost me the full BI.

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it's basically my standard bet-size on the turn. I doubt he has any tells on me since this was like the 3rd hand we had played together postflop.in position against a semi-predictable regular I'm probably never folding two overs and a BD straight in position. I'm always firing that turn because I can apply a lot of pressure on different rivers. I got a mediocre river...I kind of have to fire the ace, because wtf am I doing floating/bluffing if I chicken out, and I can have Ax FDs. Not like he knows it, but I'd insta-value bet the Ax FD on this river. I'm not crazy about bluffing here though. Ad is much sexier.villain knows little about me, but I'm not a given to raise 12 outers on the flop. I play more multi-street poker in position, calling more than when I'm OOP. I'm also never folding AT/KT against this guy pf. I play a lot in position against HUDBOTs / predictable or passive regs. Another hand, against the same villain:I have AJo otb. Villain opens from the CO, I call and the BB calls.Flop comes A56 two hearts. BB checks, villain bets, I call.Turn is a 7d. Villain checks and I bet $4 (which is about 2/3). He calls. River is the 4d. Villain checks. I have about a PSB left. I figure this nit for Aq/AK having c/bet multiway otf and then c/cing the turn. So the question is, can I get him to fold his TPTK with a PSB, and the answer is probably not, so I opt to check instead of turning my hand into a bluff, and I ofc lose to AK. Felt wrong because I had a bluffer's image, and I felt like I should've gotten paid from it, but given the action and the board I see no way that he'll pay me off with worse. 4h would probably have cost me the full BI.
What hands call the turn that you beat ? The way you describe the villain, I don't know if there is value in a turn bet beyond setting up a river bluff.
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Villain is relatively unknown taggist stats of first 25 hands.I never know what to do on the turn/river... zeeeeeeboooooferal_cow_icon.gifonce a cow has a taste for violence, it reverts. it becomes feral.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersBB rshofbldtothehd: $25.91 UTG RaphanusSativus: $31.80 UTG+1 chcwins: $25.35 CO WorldClasse: $33.90 Button Hero: $25.47 SB SeanyJ24: $25.10 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is Button with Jc.gif9c.gif (6 players)RaphanusSativus folds, chcwins raises to $0.75, WorldClasse folds, Hero raises to $2.25, 2 folds, chcwins calls $1.50Flop: ($4.85) Js.gifAh.gifJh.gif (2 players)chcwins checks, Hero bets $2.25, chcwins calls $2.25Turn: ($9.35) Ad.gif (2 players)chcwins checks, Hero checksRiver: ($9.35) 9h.gif (2 players)chcwins bets $5, Hero calls $5

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Villain is relatively unknown taggist stats of first 25 hands.I never know what to do on the turn/river... zeeeeeeboooooferal_cow_icon.gifonce a cow has a taste for violence, it reverts. it becomes feral.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersBB rshofbldtothehd: $25.91 UTG RaphanusSativus: $31.80 UTG+1 chcwins: $25.35 CO WorldClasse: $33.90 Button Hero: $25.47 SB SeanyJ24: $25.10 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is Button with Jc.gif9c.gif (6 players)RaphanusSativus folds, chcwins raises to $0.75, WorldClasse folds, Hero raises to $2.25, 2 folds, chcwins calls $1.50Flop: ($4.85) Js.gifAh.gifJh.gif (2 players)chcwins checks, Hero bets $2.25, chcwins calls $2.25Turn: ($9.35) Ad.gif (2 players)chcwins checks, Hero checksRiver: ($9.35) 9h.gif (2 players)chcwins bets $5, Hero calls $5
Unless he was floating oop with the intention of bluffing river, He has value hands here 100%. Considering there is only 1 jack left and people don't often defend with Jx hands, especially when compared to Ax hands. I would fold. Run worse though, sick.
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feral_cow_icon.gifA pack of feral cows chewed their cuds for .0043 seconds to convert this handFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.05/$0.10 - 9 playersButton: $7.27 SB: $10.15 BB: $10.84 UTG: $13.19 UTG+1: $4.39 MP: $10.35 MP2: $10.72 HJ: $14.22 CO: $10.85 (Hero)Preflop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with :4h:5c (9 players)UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, HJ calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.55, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.45, HJ calls $0.45Flop: ($1.80) :club::qh:3h (3 players)UTG checks, HJ checks, Hero checksTurn: ($1.80) :ts (3 players)UTG bets $1.60, HJ calls $1.60, Hero raises to I am so bad with bet sizing, What to make it here ?
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FR... foldUm.... I'd prob go with $4.40 or shove weird SPR imo... so I'm serious about shoving I thinkalso kinda serio about folding
btw This is rush. Forget the converter doesn't mention it. PSR is like $8 so shove is a legit optionI doubt any UTG player is L/C with KJs or J8s. While the HJ might it is still a very loose play on his part and him only calling the bet on turn makes it less likely. I do think they are with TT,99,77 though. Besides Even if they do 100% call KJs or J8s there are 7 combos of them and 9 of sets.
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