QED 4 Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Oh, and if anybody ever wants to run their own Shady Poker Operation, we can discuss biznassss http://blackbeltprogramming.com Have you thought about running a site that does reviews of poker sites security? Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Have you thought about running a site that does reviews of poker sites security? I have now. The major issue is monetizing. I likely couldn't, since the reality is I'd probably be completely ripping apart the very people who would be paying me through affiliate links and advertising. Also, I'm not sure the average player even cares given the circumstances we have been playing under. Ninja, I have no official affiliation with the site. Just been running up a roll there and am interested in it getting more traffic. While your security points are going a bit over my head, I think they're likely valid. Any way that I can encourage you to get in touch with the guys that run the site? Oh, and here's their thread over at 2+2... http://forumserver.t...r-room-1248197/ If you're not affiliated I could care less tbh. It's nothing worth addressing for the size of their site. If its not for a friend or iFriend, they likely can't afford me, which is why they used the open source tool to begin with. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If you're not affiliated I could care less tbh. It's nothing worth addressing for the size of their site. If its not for a friend or iFriend, they likely can't afford me, which is why they used the open source tool to begin with. Asked them about this and got this reply... If Daniel can contribute by demonstrating a weakness that would be very helpful. We would even pay for that. However, it seems very unlikely that he can help since the software is not related to the Python Poker Network or even written in Python. We use Poker Mavens by Briggs Softworks. Seals Support I would appreciate it if you'd talk to them since I do want the site to succeed. =) Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Asked them about this and got this reply... If Daniel can contribute by demonstrating a weakness that would be very helpful. We would even pay for that. However, it seems very unlikely that he can help since the software is not related to the Python Poker Network or even written in Python. We use Poker Mavens by Briggs Softworks. Seals Support I would appreciate it if you'd talk to them since I do want the site to succeed. =) Yes, and lock poker wasn't exposing passwords in javascript code according to support until I finally posted about it a year later in NVG. It's just another shady fly by night operation that outsources everything, has no budget, works based on money laundering, and whose only sense of "security" is not knowing any better. But, maybe they've moved on since that was relevant, haven't been keeping tabs on them, but apparently others have: Fool me once... Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Oh, and somebody tell poker mavens to firewall off their MySQL server... ****ing morons in this business I swear Nmap scan report for pokermavens.net (205.234.110.136) Host is up (0.0079s latency). rDNS record for 205.234.110.136: centaur.dewahost.net Not shown: 955 filtered ports, 28 closed ports PORT STATE SERVICE 21/tcp open ftp 22/tcp open ssh 25/tcp open smtp 26/tcp open rsftp 53/tcp open domain 80/tcp open http 110/tcp open pop3 143/tcp open imap 443/tcp open https 465/tcp open smtps 587/tcp open submission 993/tcp open imaps 995/tcp open pop3s 3306/tcp open mysql 34571/tcp open unknown 34572/tcp open unknown 34573/tcp open unknown Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 4.19 seconds Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 You know what? Screw a DNS and Apache and all that fun jazz... let's just put Tomcat out into the wild and hope for the best http://69.64.77.244:8087/ PokerMaven... true professionals obviously Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Researching it a bit, the Poker Mavens revision lists this a while back... They're currently on 3.11. Seems like it has been implemented since that most recent discussion. I mean, seriously...the guy said he'd pay you to improve the security? It seems like you'd be quite capable of that and interested in the work, no? Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 They're currently on 3.11. Seems like it has been implemented since that most recent discussion. I mean, seriously...the guy said he'd pay you to improve the security? It seems like you'd be quite capable of that and interested in the work, no? Doesn't sound like he is all that interested in their employment. Saying you will get paid and getting paid are two different things. Considering the state of online poker at the moment I would take the exact same stand that NA's is taking in relation to this 'job offer'. Not like he can take an illegal online employer to court for unpaid wages. I can only assume from the posts that NA has made that there is an even better reasons based on his experience in this industry and the sites current structure to laugh at them and their offers. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Doesn't sound like he is all that interested in their employment. Saying you will get paid and getting paid are two different things. Considering the state of online poker at the moment I would take the exact same stand that NA's is taking in relation to this 'job offer'. Not like he can take an illegal online employer to court for unpaid wages. I can only assume from the posts that NA has made that there is an even better reasons based on his experience in this industry and the sites current structure to laugh at them and their offers. How are they illegal? And assuming they're not illegal, how would it be really any different than any other online security consulting job? From my dealings with them so far, they seem quite amiable and ready to listen. I dunno...NA seemed to suggest consulting availability. If he's got more work than he can handle or doesn't think it's worth his time, that's reasonable, but I think it might be worth it to at least discuss potential terms. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 How are they illegal? And assuming they're not illegal, how would it be really any different than any other online security consulting job? From my dealings with them so far, they seem quite amiable and ready to listen. I dunno...NA seemed to suggest consulting availability. If he's got more work than he can handle or doesn't think it's worth his time, that's reasonable, but I think it might be worth it to at least discuss potential terms. FWIW It's not always about money. I actually get way way more offers than I have the capacity to handle, and am learning other things like how to hire, how to train, how to manage etc. I use forums to blow off steam Link to post Share on other sites
QED 4 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I have now. The major issue is monetizing. I likely couldn't, since the reality is I'd probably be completely ripping apart the very people who would be paying me through affiliate links and advertising. Also, I'm not sure the average player even cares given the circumstances we have been playing under. Yeah monetizing wouldn't be easy, maybe more through affiliate sales of security stuff and advertising that sort of thing to players? Would have to be secondary stuff rather than getting cash from the sites themselves. If you could turn up a couple of decent scandals you could probably get some decent traffic. Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 How are they illegal? And assuming they're not illegal, how would it be really any different than any other online security consulting job? From my dealings with them so far, they seem quite amiable and ready to listen. I dunno...NA seemed to suggest consulting availability. If he's got more work than he can handle or doesn't think it's worth his time, that's reasonable, but I think it might be worth it to at least discuss potential terms. Do they provide online poker to americans? The DOJ has made it painfully clear that online poker is covered by the UIGEA. Yeah assuming the main premise of my argument is wrong, than I see no problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 how would it be really any different than any other online security consulting job? This is actually the problem in my current field. Truth be told I think me never reaching my EV was the best thing that ever happened. I'm not going to pretend to be the best of the best Navy Seals of IT, but I have a brain and use it. Apparently, when demand far exceeds supply, anything above mediocre allows you to be very very picky. To be precise, I currently only work with startups that I feel, for political reasons, make a positive impact on society. Also, they need to be working with tools I enjoy. Imagine poor Joe American trying to be so picky... he can't... but I'm a spoiled brat who got industry lucky so I'll reap the benefits Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Also, money laundering is money laundering. Bitcoin does not make it not money laundering. The fact that you believe strongly in how they do it, just means they have a fantastic laundering scheme. Now, I don't think the DOJ is going to chase them AT ALL. Even if Seals were to get popular at a wild fire pace, things would be regulated before it mattered to the DOJ... I mean... Bovada is still in business so... bigger fish to fry etc Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Yeah monetizing wouldn't be easy, maybe more through affiliate sales of security stuff and advertising that sort of thing to players? Would have to be secondary stuff rather than getting cash from the sites themselves. If you could turn up a couple of decent scandals you could probably get some decent traffic. All considering, it could potentially be profitable. However, I think if I could profit from such a venture it'd be selfish at best. I'd potentially assist in destroying the small flicker of hope that is left for the game I once devoted all my time to. Yes, there is some ugly stuff going on, and yes, I could potentially save a few individuals. However, I think a heightened awareness of how shady things can really be to the general public could further negatively impact a struggling industry which I'd prefer to watch thrive. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Do they provide online poker to americans? The DOJ has made it painfully clear that online poker is covered by the UIGEA. I'm not sure that's the case though. The UIGEA is targeted at processors. They went after FTP/Stars over processing issues...they were pretty fraudulent in how they handled that issue. In this case, there aren't processing lies. Well, you had the additional issue that FTP was being super mismanaged too. NA, can you elaborate on the idea that it's money laundering? I don't quite get your point on that. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 NA, can you elaborate on the idea that it's money laundering? I don't quite get your point on that. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=definition+of+money+laundering Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 http://lmgtfy.com/?q...oney laundering I'm aware of the concept of money laundering. I've seen Office Space. =P I'm asking why you think this is particularly a case of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I'm aware of the concept of money laundering. I've seen Office Space. =P I'm asking why you think this is particularly a case of it. Is this an extreme level? The U.S. government said our banks couldn't do business with offshore unliscensed gambling institutions. They put their foot down on black friday, and somehow you think a "decentralized anonymous currency" magically makes it better? No, it doesn't, you're just using an obfuscated 3rd party in the middle of the transaction. Laundering. Period. The people who are interested in bitcoins are primarily: people looking to wash money people doing illegal things with money greedy mother****ers We have enough problems as is with government backed currency, let alone completely anonymous people with no checks and balances, no matter how solid their cryptography is. Educate yourself on money a little bit: Debt = Money Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I remember when this thread was all about how bad KJ was at 3betting 2 Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 I remember when you moved to Colorado and never called me! Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Is this an extreme level? The U.S. government said our banks couldn't do business with offshore unliscensed gambling institutions. They put their foot down on black friday, and somehow you think a "decentralized anonymous currency" magically makes it better? No, it doesn't, you're just using an obfuscated 3rd party in the middle of the transaction. Laundering. Period. The people who are interested in bitcoins are primarily: people looking to wash money people doing illegal things with money greedy mother****ers We have enough problems as is with government backed currency, let alone completely anonymous people with no checks and balances, no matter how solid their cryptography is. Educate yourself on money a little bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mII9NZ8MMVM Debt = Money The Office Space mention was a joke. Do you agree or disagree that we should have freedom to use money for online poker? I guess I more understand your point that the origin/process is being obfuscated, but I guess when I think "laundering", it's more explicitly trying to make "dirty" money look "clean". Poker money isn't dirty money. Also, I watched that whole video. I thought the production value was pretty decent and entertaining. Jefferson and Jackson certainly are not my Presidential heroes though...and basically ushered in recession every time they tried to push their anti-federalist ideas through (oh, Civil War too). It's kind of weird that you showed me that though. One of the big points seemed to be that a centralized and government-backed currency faced lots of corruption, so a decentralized one that wasn't tied to government (though a French bank did just start guaranteeing bitcoin deposits) seems like it'd be right up their alley. I find the idea that money has to be tied to a precious metal to be antiquated. Gold is only really worth something because we agree that it is. "It looks pretty and is somewhat rare." It's not really that different from paper money...just an agreed upon means of facilitating trade. Same with bitcoins. Also, the video seems to find the idea of inflation abhorrent...bitcoins are inherently deflationary. Link to post Share on other sites
SuperJon 175 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I remember when you moved to Colorado and never called me! I'm still trying to get acclimated. You ever go to a place called Rack Em Billiards? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted December 20, 2012 Author Share Posted December 20, 2012 I'm still trying to get acclimated. You ever go to a place called Rack Em Billiards? No, but I don't shoot pool. I will be back in Denver Friday, for a few weeks. So we clearly should go to rack em billiards. Then after we play some poker with my friends. Then we see who sucks at 3betting Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja Ace 1 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Do you agree or disagree that we should have freedom to use money for online poker? I guess I more understand your point that the origin/process is being obfuscated, but I guess when I think "laundering", it's more explicitly trying to make "dirty" money look "clean". Poker money isn't dirty money. And right here lies the entire problem with why you don't understand why it's laundering. It doesn't matter if you don't think it's dirty money. It doesn't matter if I think we should have the freedom to do whatever with money. It doesn't matter if it's flat out morally right or wrong. What matters, and all that matters, when figuring out if something is legal, are the laws and definitions currently in place. Thinking anything else is a huge huge huge error in reasoning. What's right/wrong is not even close to equivalent to what's legal/illegal. It's a broken country, get used to it or join the pissed off masses contemplating revolution. And yes, the moment you change that bitcoin you got back from the poker room into real dollars into your bank account, you have laundered money since *you* tricked the bank into processing funds from an original source it is not allowed to process from. So, while playing on FT and PS was fine for the players since we were not the ones responsible for tricking the banks, this operation makes *you* assume the liability. Now, it certainly decreases the odds of you getting caught. However, be aware that you are indeed breaking the law once you spend those bit coins on United States goods or currency, and weigh the risk/reward. Link to post Share on other sites
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