Creationist Corner

[Balloon guy 158]

The way you can prove it false is to show that scientists do in fact accept unfalsifiable theories.

They do?Like what?besides evolution obv.

[crowTrobot 2]

How would you prove that Benjamin Button was actually old and not that he just looked old?

both your Adam and BBT analogies sell the evidence short. the earth doesn't just "look" old. it (and the surrounding universe) contain mountains of intricate evidence of a continuous history of countless specific interconnected geologic/cosmic events spanning billions of years, and nothing at all that would give the slightest indication that the earth/universe are young. to say god could have faked all that is no less unscientific and silly than postulating undectable pulling elves instead of gravity.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

both your Adam and BBT analogies sell the evidence short. the earth doesn't just "look" old. it (and the surrounding universe) contain mountains of intricate evidence of a continuous history of countless specific interconnected geologic/cosmic events spanning billions of years, and nothing at all that would give the slightest indication that the earth/universe are young. to say god could have faked all that is no less unscientific and silly than postulating undectable pulling elves instead of gravity.

I apologize for trying to simplify the argument. When I say "looks old" I mean all the evidence points to it being old.

[crowTrobot 2]

The whole argument that something cannot be true unless it can be proven false

nobody said that. what is being said is something cannot be a scientific theory unless it is testable.we tend to accept (as possible) or reject untestable assertions based on whether we think they fit known patterns of explanation or not.

[crowTrobot 2]

I apologize for trying to simplify the argument. When I say "looks old" I mean all the evidence points to it being old.

i was just trying to demonstrate that the notion is unreasonable (as well as untestable).

[Balloon guy 158]

nobody said that. what is being said is something cannot be a scientific theory unless it is testable.we tend to accept (as possible) or reject untestable assertions based on whether we think they fit known patterns of explanation or not.

So some theories can still be accepted even though they are not testable?Like evolution?

[crowTrobot 2]

So some theories can still be accepted even though they are not testable?

accepted as reasonably possible, not as true. string "theory" is a good example. many scientists consider it untestable, but not unreasonable because it has explanatory power.

Like evolution?

no not like evolution : )

[Randy Reed 0]

Well BG, like a great politician you told me I asked a good question but failed to actually answer the question. Again. I will bite and address your post though. Let's break it down.

Throughout the Bible God tells us to use our minds, and Christians have a very good track record of building schools and universities around the globe.

So if the bible tells us to us our minds, and we have all these Christian schools, why then would he say to ignore astronomy, biology, physics, geology, chemistry and archeology regording the planet? Why would you even want to learn it if it wasn't real or actually happened?

but I do believe that it is an accurate history of our existance and our Maker, and so I consider it my final authority.

So i've asked you what that history is but you didn't answer. What is the history of our existence? Did we come from a common gene pool and evolve with the planet or did God at some point place us here with a fictitious past? The bible does deal with creation so you should be able to explain it since it is the final authority.

But unlike every single other religion in the world, The Bible tells us that God made a way for us to overcome this problem with sin, by paying the price for us. And then He offers it to all men freely, without any restriction but to ask.

And that idea has made it a very popular religon compared to the millions of other ones I'll grant you that. If I wanted to raise money for a religon that I started I wouldn't want to exclude anyone wanting in either, thus assuring it's continuance. Ask forgiveness, give some money and all's well. And I don't even want to get into why sending his son to earth only to die really doesn't make any sense but that's another topic.

I asked, I received, it changed my life. I knew me before, I know me now, it changed my life.I've seen other lives changed. I've seen miracles.As such I trust in Him.

Ahh, the crux of the matter. You can't make any logical sense of any of it so you want to wish real hard that it's true, click your heels 3 times and it must be. Since you decided to live a more moral life it got better, imagine that! Coincidence? I think not! Hell, now you can even see things that aren't there, it must be a miracle! Who needs logic anymore! Hallelujiah!

So when presented with the theory of evolution, I do not see an answer to the question of life, I see a dodge to the question of life.

No, you see a problem with what YOU believe since it poses a huge contradiction.

With one hand you guys claim that evolution has no purpose, no motives, no soul behind it. With the other you try to say it brought us beauty, it brought us compassion, it brought us love.I think the notion of evolution is offensive to common sense. We all know we are more than a bunch of randomly grouped molecules that happen to move together, and we all know that life must have more meaning than.....none.

And finally what you really want to say. You know that the whole idea of the bible and basis for Christianity is ridiculous at best but you think we are better off for it, then being an athiest right or wrong. This would be alot easier to debate and save alot of time if you would just admit it.And I will debate it endlessy since I think that religon is an outdated scourge and humanities only hope is through reason. The endless killing that goes on to this day should warrant everyone to come to their senses. Just on the West Bank where unspeakable cruelty exists daily in an arguement over whether it was Issac or Ismael that was offered up as a sacrifice to God thus giving the Jews and Muslims claim to the land. I wish they knew who they were really descended from.Furthermore there is grandeur in this view of life. If you can't see the wonderful, glorious complexity of it all I feel sad for you. Life doesn't have to have a meaning other being what it is, that is amazing enough. Isn't looking at your kids and all the wonder, frailty, complexity enough and to be satisfied at the extreme luck and fortune to be here? Can't you see the awesomeness in that?And yeah, the fossil thing is a tough one!

[Randy Reed 0]

So some theories can still be accepted even though they are not testable?Like evolution?

Critical thinking means identifying the problem, looking at different possible causes of that problem, seeing possible solutions, examining and testing evidence "for" and "against" those solutions, and , while trying to eliminate all bias, picking the solution and applying it objectively. This is harder to do than most people think, because we all have unrecognized biases and unquestioned assumptions.I started this thread to try to give a basis for critical thinking in regard to evolution and allow everyone to examine their biases. A person's religon is often brought about through an entire lifetime and involves a collective history involving their families, friends and lifestyle. Given that to question it is taught to be inherantly bad, and that people believing in other religons are considered wrong it is no wonder many religons not only have lasted and prospered, but lead to a mass euthanasia of critical thinking in regard to the topic. It lends itself to dividing people and fanaticism as well. I do believe that the world is changing in this regard as science and education tend to win over the youth, but the world is a vast place and throughout much of it is uneducated and subject to the fanatics who desire power. Hopefully computers will make the world "smaller" and communication and education more accessible. Religons that deprave women, exude bias and abhor critical thinking will have to go by the wayside if the world is to be a better place, free of war.

[Balloon guy 158]

Well BG, like a great politician you told me I asked a good question but failed to actually answer the question. Again. I will bite and address your post though. Let's break it down.So if the bible tells us to us our minds, and we have all these Christian schools, why then would he say to ignore astronomy, biology, physics, geology, chemistry and archeology regording the planet? Why would you even want to learn it if it wasn't real or actually happened?So i've asked you what that history is but you didn't answer. What is the history of our existence? Did we come from a common gene pool and evolve with the planet or did God at some point place us here with a fictitious past? The bible does deal with creation so you should be able to explain it since it is the final authority.And that idea has made it a very popular religon compared to the millions of other ones I'll grant you that. If I wanted to raise money for a religon that I started I wouldn't want to exclude anyone wanting in either, thus assuring it's continuance. Ask forgiveness, give some money and all's well. And I don't even want to get into why sending his son to earth only to die really doesn't make any sense but that's another topic.Ahh, the crux of the matter. You can't make any logical sense of any of it so you want to wish real hard that it's true, click your heels 3 times and it must be. Since you decided to live a more moral life it got better, imagine that! Coincidence? I think not! Hell, now you can even see things that aren't there, it must be a miracle! Who needs logic anymore! Hallelujiah!No, you see a problem with what YOU believe since it poses a huge contradiction.And finally what you really want to say. You know that the whole idea of the bible and basis for Christianity is ridiculous at best but you think we are better off for it, then being an athiest right or wrong. This would be alot easier to debate and save alot of time if you would just admit it.And I will debate it endlessy since I think that religon is an outdated scourge and humanities only hope is through reason. The endless killing that goes on to this day should warrant everyone to come to their senses. Just on the West Bank where unspeakable cruelty exists daily in an arguement over whether it was Issac or Ismael that was offered up as a sacrifice to God thus giving the Jews and Muslims claim to the land. I wish they knew who they were really descended from.Furthermore there is grandeur in this view of life. If you can't see the wonderful, glorious complexity of it all I feel sad for you. Life doesn't have to have a meaning other being what it is, that is amazing enough. Isn't looking at your kids and all the wonder, frailty, complexity enough and to be satisfied at the extreme luck and fortune to be here? Can't you see the awesomeness in that?And yeah, the fossil thing is a tough one!

I was going to avoid this whole thread for the above reasons.You either have your head too far in the sand to be able to think logically, or are trying to bait me like I bait others.Neither one makes this much fun for me.But should you in the future figure out that you are stealing from a Christian based world view in order to place values on life, then using that same value system to denigrate Christianity, that will be a thread I will be willing to discuss this with you.Until then just know that most universities in this country, Christians founded them. So all this knowledge you pretend we fear, we own. And Values..that's ours as well.You guys got eugenics and harvesting of babies for medical research.Oh and communism

[vbnautilus 48]

that most universities in this country, Christians You guys got eugenics and harvesting of babies for medical research.

and, medical research.

[Randy Reed 0]

And well, maybe with Eugenics we can breed humans to live more healthy until we're about 150 and be able to go roller skating with our great, great, great, great grandkids. That'd be kinda cool.

[Randy Reed 0]

I was going to avoid this whole thread for the above reasons.You either have your head too far in the sand to be able to think logically, or are trying to bait me like I bait others.Neither one makes this much fun for me.But should you in the future figure out that you are stealing from a Christian based world view in order to place values on life, then using that same value system to denigrate Christianity, that will be a thread I will be willing to discuss this with you.Until then just know that most universities in this country, Christians founded them. So all this knowledge you pretend we fear, we own. And Values..that's ours as well.You guys got eugenics and harvesting of babies for medical research.Oh and communism

Given all the time and effort that went into my original post I'm surprised you showed up as well given that I knew you wouldn't answer the questions. As you say, it's only fun when you can denigrate others opinions while not having to back your own up. I'm sorry that you are stumped and left only to look stupid by persisting, it wasn't my intention but it is what it is. Take your ball and go home. I only responded to what you posted.

But should you in the future figure out that you are stealing from a Christian based world view in order to place values on life, then using that same value system to denigrate Christianity, that will be a thread I will be willing to discuss this with you.

I don't even know what that means.

Until then just know that most universities in this country, Christians founded them. So all this knowledge you pretend we fear, we own. And Values..that's ours as well.

That's fabulous. You know i'm all about schools and education and I think it's awesome. But what's this about Christians owning knowledge and values? I hope they aren't teaching that. That's scary you'd even type it.

[vbnautilus 48]

I will help Randy, I ran some of his text through Google Translate. Here is what I got:

I was going to avoid this whole thread for the above reasons.

I was going to avoid this whole thread for the above reasons.

You either have your head too far in the sand to be able to think logically, or are trying to bait me like I bait others.

You're taking me too seriously and not playing my game, so

Neither one makes this much fun for me.

this is not fun for me.

But should you in the future figure out that you are stealing from a Christian based world view in order to place values on life, then using that same value system to denigrate Christianity, that will be a thread I will be willing to discuss this with you.

God created morals, so if you actually are moral, you must have absorbed morality from us Christians, or you're just expressing the values that God built into you.

Until then just know that most universities in this country, Christians founded them. So all this knowledge you pretend we fear, we own. And Values..that's ours as well.

Yes, we are very afraid of actual knowledge, but can point to the fact that we founded some universities in a futile attempt to counter this, and ignore the embarrassing fact that our entire worldview has been undermined by the knowledge those universities generated.

You guys got eugenics and harvesting of babies for medical research.

I can associate your point of view with evil things.

Oh and communism

including communism, because everyone hates that. Hope this helps.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

That is awesome.

[Piddle Duck 0]

I guess I ate my popcorn too soon.

[Balloon guy 158]

That is awesome.

My wife could use that...And vb is too good sometimes...he scares me

[Balloon guy 158]

Given all the time and effort that went into my original post I'm surprised you showed up as well given that I knew you wouldn't answer the questions. As you say, it's only fun when you can denigrate others opinions while not having to back your own up. I'm sorry that you are stumped and left only to look stupid by persisting, it wasn't my intention but it is what it is. Take your ball and go home. I only responded to what you posted.

lol, Yea, your efforts in that OP were transparent, so I was ignoring it.Because , and this might be an eye opening revelation..but I don't speak for all creationist.See, unlike you guys, who not only speak for all Christian groups, all astrologers, and all 'thinking people' ...I am stuck facing the reality that I only speak for myself.You want to debate what all creationist think..then you will need a recently converted atheist, only they are arrogant enough to pretend that they 'know' what everyone thinks.

I don't even know what that means.

this really should be your first clue

That's fabulous. You know i'm all about schools and education and I think it's awesome. But what's this about Christians owning knowledge and values? I hope they aren't teaching that. That's scary you'd even type it.

I know you're about something? Why? Because you mention schools?I was bringing up the reality that atheist and evolutionist are parasites on societies, it had nothing to do with you.Other than pointing out that you are a parasite on society I mean.

[Spademan 94]

I will help Randy, I ran some of his text through Google Translate.

I chuckled.

[Randy Reed 0]

Other than pointing out that you are a parasite on society I mean.

Yeah, educating the children, empowering women, caring about the future of the planet, and eliminating war doesn't fit in well with your morality I suppose.Look, I don't want anything to denigrate into a name calling pissing match anymore than you do. I hope. I was trying to make a thread that shows that evolution is factual for all intents and purposes and that it's not contested by anyone reasonable. I've stated my points numerous times about the complete ignorance of the American public to this fact.I furthermore know what it means to be an athiest and all the discrimination that goes with it. The way you just acted towards me is totally inline with the majority of the people in this country which is ridiculous for treating me (or anyone) that way for having a more factual belief than they do, let alone a better understanding. It boggles my mind that within an hour of where I live there is a government funded museum denying science as we know it.