Patrice Cormier - Sickening Elbow On Mikael Tam

[digitalmonkey 929]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...the equipment the players wear needs to change. I would never even think about sticking my elbow up into the helmet area of an onrushing player with the elbow pads I used to wear.

[PhilBluff 0]

interesting you bring up Bertuzzi..Because I think this is probably worse than the Bertuzzi incident.

I agree with you on this just because of what happened to the kid. Probably won't play again. But if he doesn't receive a harsh punishment, you are only going to see retaliatory reaction against him.

[Orcasgt22 0]

Cormier should be charged with assault, thats how dirty that elbow is. If he isn't banned for life I'd be surprisedSportsnet.ca article about the hit.

Remparts spokesman Nicole Bouchard said Tam underwent a brain scan after the game and that a second scan on Monday morning showed no deterioration in his condition. He is to remain in hospital for a second night for observation and is expected to be released Tuesday morning.

As scary as what happened to Tam on the ice was, it seems he will be ok, all things considered.

[serge 904]

I just ran into this..Apparently Liambas still didnt learn his lesson and even though he left junior hockey, he was suspended 5 games in the IHL for a hit from behind.If this jackass Cormier isnt banned for good, he will likely do it again ..http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_dadd...?urn=nhl,212277

[Whiter Sr 0]

My prediction is the rest of the year and you will see Cormier in the AHL next year.Do I think it is right? No but that is my guess on the suspension to be handed down.

[serge 904]

My prediction is the rest of the year and you will see Cormier in the AHL next year.Do I think it is right? No but that is my guess on the suspension to be handed down.

I agree with you..BTW what good is a year suspension or even a lifetime ban from Junior hockey since this kid probably wont be playing Junior anyways..

[Dubey 1,035]

If I was the Commissioner of the QMJHL, I would issue Cormier a 3-year suspension from the QMJHL. I would then get on the phone with Gary Bettman and plead with him to honor the suspension in the AHL/NHL.the rest of the season (20 games) + playoffs is simply not enough of a suspension. This kid shouldn't get a 'free pass' from further suspension just because this is his final year of junior.

[gruven 530]

In the NHL, back in the 40's and 50's, it was considered a (penalized) part of the game to have a 'stick fight': that is, squaring off with your hockey sticks like clubs and trying to beat the other guy's head in. Finally, the league decided to institute prohibitive penalties for doing this. Guess what? It stopped. So saying stiff penalties doesn't curb the behaviour is bullshit. Sure, there may be the one guy that still does it, but it sure as hell will stop almost everyone else.

[mrdannyg 274]

In the NHL, back in the 40's and 50's, it was considered a (penalized) part of the game to have a 'stick fight': that is, squaring off with your hockey sticks like clubs and trying to beat the other guy's head in. Finally, the league decided to institute prohibitive penalties for doing this. Guess what? It stopped. So saying stiff penalties doesn't curb the behaviour is bullshit. Sure, there may be the one guy that still does it, but it sure as hell will stop almost everyone else.

Wow, that is completely different. In your example, guys are squaring off. Premeditated. If the NHL announced fighting meant a 2-year ban, fighting would stop too.This was a momentary decision where a guy decided to stick his elbow up. I defend my comparison to crimes because violent crimes are usually those of passion, and I believe this was the same. If it turns out he was proud of it, or planned it, then my comparison goes out the window. More severe punishment will still likely have little effect, though I do like the idea of having all the major leagues (and the Q) support eachother's bans.Really though, this kid needs counselling. He is a violent person. I'd fully support requiring clearance from a psychologist before letting him back on the ice for instances involving repeat offenders or extraordinarily violent acts. I hate how only situations of severe injury seem to get attention, and more severe punishments are called for, but in this instance the intent to injure seems very apparent. In my opinion, intent to injure is a different playing field, and requires non-hockey solutions.

[00Lenny 0]

Redemption and rehabilitation are great objectives and primary ones of our Canadian justice system. But we aren't handing out crazy wild punishments here simply because we want to deter others. We also need to hand them out appropriate for the crime. Are we seriously going to say "Well he is just whacked in the head, lets fix him then turn him loose again"? You can't tell me that Cormier wasn't FULLY aware of what vicious elbows do, after probably playing hockey since he was a toddler. I was taught from day one: Sticks, knees and elbows aren't for hitting other players. Shoulder only. Cormier made a conscious choice while fully aware of the consequences and sinned against hockey like no tomorrow (again).The worst part, is that he was most likely sternly informed by the WJC coaching staff how stupid this kind of stuff is after that crap he pulled there. If he wasn't, that's nothing short of horrendous coaching, but nevermind that. IMO Cormier forfeited the PRIVILEGE to play hockey for profit by doing what we've all been told to never do from the time we put on skates, multiple times.I don't think any psychologist can convince me that he is just an angry/violent person who commits these acts after losing control. Nor could the convince me of their ability to "cure" these moronic impulses. Take Chris Simon for example, who is another looney tune who should've had his career ended a lot sooner. Same garbage over and over. Just not worth the danger they insist on presenting to other players.

[mrdannyg 274]

Good points, well made. The main difference between him and Simon is that he is 18. I think we can all look back to that age and look at stupid shit we did. I completely agree that a severe punishment is warranted. Rest of the year, another year, I don't know.I'm also quite sure this hit is not more severe than other incidents over the years. I'm all for a lifetime ban in extreme cases with multiple incidents, but that is far too severe in this instance. The other hits were bad, but not at the level of a Simon or Pronger.

[digitalmonkey 929]

If I'm commish I let him continue to play...but he can't wear elbow pads.

[mrdannyg 274]

If I'm commish I let him continue to play...but he can't wear elbow pads.

You just might be on to something.

[mase_gotsem 0]

just seen this today absolutley disgusting i feel sorry for the people especially family that had to see tam go into a convultion as anyone knows thats one of the freakiest things to see in real life and close up.the hockey industry really needs to go back to the soft elbow pads and shoulderpads imo these new ones are wayyyy to hard nowadays mix that with the speed and size of these kids and its only a matter of time before some one dies .

[gruven 530]

Wow, that is completely different. In your example, guys are squaring off. Premeditated. If the NHL announced fighting meant a 2-year ban, fighting would stop too.This was a momentary decision where a guy decided to stick his elbow up. I defend my comparison to crimes because violent crimes are usually those of passion, and I believe this was the same. If it turns out he was proud of it, or planned it, then my comparison goes out the window. More severe punishment will still likely have little effect, though I do like the idea of having all the major leagues (and the Q) support eachother's bans.Really though, this kid needs counselling. He is a violent person. I'd fully support requiring clearance from a psychologist before letting him back on the ice for instances involving repeat offenders or extraordinarily violent acts. I hate how only situations of severe injury seem to get attention, and more severe punishments are called for, but in this instance the intent to injure seems very apparent. In my opinion, intent to injure is a different playing field, and requires non-hockey solutions.

Sorry, I took it to the extreme. But the reality is, guys 40 years ago who felt they had been fouled didn't think twice about taking their stick and clubbing another guy. The NHL is full of incidents like that in their history. FInally, the league said no more, and started handing out serious punishment. And it stopped. The same needs to be done here: would Cormier have come off the bench and deliberately headhunted with that elbow if he KNEW it would be the last play of his hockey career.... EVER. I seriously doubt it. And while I agree that 18 year olds are idiots sometimes, they are smart enough to sign multi-million dollar deals and play in the NHL... they should be smart enough to accept a code of conduct that goes with that ability...

[digitalmonkey 929]

Sorry, I took it to the extreme. But the reality is, guys 40 years ago who felt they had been fouled didn't think twice about taking their stick and clubbing another guy. The NHL is full of incidents like that in their history. FInally, the league said no more, and started handing out serious punishment. And it stopped. The same needs to be done here: would Cormier have come off the bench and deliberately headhunted with that elbow if he KNEW it would be the last play of his hockey career.... EVER. I seriously doubt it. And while I agree that 18 year olds are idiots sometimes, they are smart enough to sign multi-million dollar deals and play in the NHL... they should be smart enough to accept a code of conduct that goes with that ability...

I would argue that education changes behaviour more effectively than punishment. I don't know if anyone here is old enough but I remember sitting on my father's lap while he drove. I wouldn't even consider doing that with my children...not because of any possible fine but because I now realize how dangerous it is.I don't think there is one simple solution to this problem. I think there needs to be stiffer penalties, education starting at an early age and I think the equipment definitely needs to change. Players can hurl themselves into each other with little fear of injuring themseld nowadays

[mrdannyg 274]

Sorry, I took it to the extreme. But the reality is, guys 40 years ago who felt they had been fouled didn't think twice about taking their stick and clubbing another guy. The NHL is full of incidents like that in their history. FInally, the league said no more, and started handing out serious punishment. And it stopped. The same needs to be done here: would Cormier have come off the bench and deliberately headhunted with that elbow if he KNEW it would be the last play of his hockey career.... EVER. I seriously doubt it. And while I agree that 18 year olds are idiots sometimes, they are smart enough to sign multi-million dollar deals and play in the NHL... they should be smart enough to accept a code of conduct that goes with that ability...

I wish the NHL would finally get off its ass about doing away with head shots, as opposed to vague rules and a weird methodology for suspensions.In general, I'm more for changing the rules, not just making an example of someone. Someone still has to be the first, but if the rule is changed, and done so with publicity, then that first person cannot whine about unfair treatment.

[Whiter Sr 0]

Decision on suspension is supposed to be made on Monday

[gruven 530]

I wish the NHL would finally get off its ass about doing away with head shots, as opposed to vague rules and a weird methodology for suspensions.In general, I'm more for changing the rules, not just making an example of someone. Someone still has to be the first, but if the rule is changed, and done so with publicity, then that first person cannot whine about unfair treatment.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

[mrdannyg 274]

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

I know there are a few GMs who are posing opposition to changes. Any inside info? Does some/most of the blame lie with the NHLPA?

[gruven 530]

I know there are a few GMs who are posing opposition to changes. Any inside info? Does some/most of the blame lie with the NHLPA?

I just think in general there is a resistance to change. And on the GM'S part, a bit of it is selfish: Suppose you have a star(ish) player like Dion Phaneuf: he drops an elbow on someone and gets suspended for a season. Disaster. But if someone elbows Phaneuf... he might not get hurt, he might only miss a couple of games, he might put out for the season but then you get cap relief and dont have to pay him, blah blah blah.... so they dont want stiff penalties from a selfish POV... From the NHLPA perspective, it's a bit perverse. They have always taken the route of protecting the one player from punishment instead of protecting all the players from injury, DESPITE the player reps having pushed for some movement on head shots..

[SBriand 4]

Not that this would have changed the situation with Cormier but does the NHL have some sort of rookie orientation program like the NFL does and I believe the NBA does?I know the NFL one takes all these kids that get drafted and sits them down and educates them on how to behave like professionals and adults. From listening to rookie Lions players talk about it, some of it sounds like common sense but the overall message is that you are a professional, you will be getting paid big money, and this isn't the playground. You respect the team, the management, the staff, your teammates, and your opponents. And a whole bunch of other things like drugs and gun play in strip clubs but you get my point. Does the NHL have any such program?

[serge 904]

Not that this would have changed the situation with Cormier but does the NHL have some sort of rookie orientation program like the NFL does and I believe the NBA does?I know the NFL one takes all these kids that get drafted and sits them down and educates them on how to behave like professionals and adults. From listening to rookie Lions players talk about it, some of it sounds like common sense but the overall message is that you are a professional, you will be getting paid big money, and this isn't the playground. You respect the team, the management, the staff, your teammates, and your opponents. And a whole bunch of other things like drugs and gun play in strip clubs but you get my point. Does the NHL have any such program?

I know Chris probably has better insight, but I am positive they do..They sit them down and also teach them how to act in public and in front of the media.

[gruven 530]

I know Chris probably has better insight, but I am positive they do..They sit them down and also teach them how to act in public and in front of the media.

Yup, serge is right. In fact, they have one of the best: They do media orientation, money management, crime and punishment in the NHL, they get talked to by NHL security on protecting themselves and their families, the whole nine yards...

[Zach6668 513]

He got the rest of the regular season (20 games), plus the entirety of the OHL playoffs (max of 28 games). Because of a clause in the CHL's suspension policies, he's eligible to apply to be reinstated if his team makes the Memorial Cup, but the feeling I get is that he would be denied in that case.