Wondering If Getting Away From This Hand Is Possible

[Tarvold 0]

At my local 1/2 game, sitting with about 200ish, started with 100. I'm in the BB with J/9 and have 3-4 limpers. The table is pretty LAG, chasing straights/flushes etc. Not a whole lot of solid play going on. Guys just throwing money in and generally having a good time. Flop comes 10-8-Q, with 2 spades. Pot is about 10. I lead for 12 trying to price out the draws and get looked up by KQ, QJ etc. Was this wrong? Did I **** myself by overbetting? I get called by 2 guys in MP.The turn brings the K of spades completing the flush draw, and making my straight second best to AJ. I check, first guy goes all in for his last 30 bucks, the other calls with his remaining 20. Leaving me to call 30 into a pot of about 96 bucks. Can I get away from this? No real reads on the other two fellas except that they play pretty loose and might stack off with TP or top two.

[mtdesmoines 3]

At my local 1/2 game, sitting with about 200ish, started with 100. I'm in the BB with J/9 and have 3-4 limpers. The table is pretty LAG, chasing straights/flushes etc. Not a whole lot of solid play going on. Guys just throwing money in and generally having a good time. Flop comes 10-8-Q, with 2 spades. Pot is about 10. I lead for 12 trying to price out the draws and get looked up by KQ, QJ etc. Was this wrong? Did I **** myself by overbetting? I get called by 2 guys in MP.The turn brings the K of spades completing the flush draw, and making my straight second best to AJ. I check, first guy goes all in for his last 30 bucks, the other calls with his remaining 20. Leaving me to call 30 into a pot of about 96 bucks. Can I get away from this? No real reads on the other two fellas except that they play pretty loose and might stack off with TP or top two.

For the price and no action behind, you have to call this every time unless they show you the flush first.

[Tarvold 0]

For the price and no action behind, you have to call this every time unless they show you the flush first.

Should I have bet more/less on the flop? I felt like if these guys were going to chase, they'd chase no matter what I bet. Even if I put them all in.

[hartman72 0]

Should I have bet more/less on the flop? I felt like if these guys were going to chase, they'd chase no matter what I bet. Even if I put them all in.

Why would you ask if you should bet more/less on the flop with the nuts if you're sure they'd call you no matter what? Of course you should bet whatever they are willing to call. If that means betting their stacks, bet their stacks.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Should I have bet more/less on the flop? I felt like if these guys were going to chase, they'd chase no matter what I bet. Even if I put them all in.

If they call you with draws and they call an all-in with your made hand then you've done exactly what you need to do. The rest is out of your controlYou should bet at least pot to try and chase away draws, which you did. So your bet is fine, nothing you can do.

[SwolyswoND 1]

So on the flop the effective stacks are like 40 bucks? I think I like a c/rAI for value in this spot. You're first to act, the flop is unlikely to get checked around, and they will likely call you anyway, so this way we get max value.

[rrumsey 0]

So on the flop the effective stacks are like 40 bucks? I think I like a c/rAI for value in this spot. You're first to act, the flop is unlikely to get checked around, and they will likely call you anyway, so this way we get max value.

this, short enough any raise so just be all in!

[Naismith 0]

For the record, you're never trying to bet out draws. You're trying to make draws make improper calls.

[KingJames 11]

For the record, you're never trying to bet out draws. You're trying to make draws make improper calls.

Best member title and sigs everAnd yes... about the draws thing, too

[Andynice20 0]

Why would you ask if you should bet more/less on the flop with the nuts if you're sure they'd call you no matter what? Of course you should bet whatever they are willing to call. If that means betting their stacks, bet their stacks.

+1You're not pricing out any flush or OES draws in 1/2 live... just something to deal with and be happy getting it in every time knowing that they only hit it 1 time in 3.Anyways there is no chance I'm folding getting the price that's being laid and there's no other action coming...

[dingas 0]

For the record, you're never trying to bet out draws. You're trying to make draws make improper calls.

This is wrong. Protecting your hand against draws is an important reason for betting in many situations. Getting value for your hand and provoking opponents to make incorrect calls are other reasons. But okay, I agree with your general point, in NLHE most of your value does come from getting people to make incorrect calls (this is not necessarily true in other forms of poker though).BTW: OP you played the hand fine.

[Zach6668 513]

This is wrong. Protecting your hand against draws is an important reason for betting in many situations. Getting value for your hand and provoking opponents to make incorrect calls are other reasons.

Prove this to me using math.

[Naismith 0]

This is wrong. Protecting your hand against draws is an important reason for betting in many situations.

With all due respect, I think you're just saying this here without truly understanding what it means. "Protecting your hand against draws" does not mean getting your opponents to fold a draw. You're *not* trying to get an opponent to fold. The only time you want an opponent to fold a draw is in the rare instance where you're ahead and your bet gives them profitable odds to call, be it through poor bet-sizing or remaining stack size. For instance:If you get to the flop with 100 dollars in the pot and shove for your last 20 with a set of sixes on a 649dd flop, you'd rather just have AKdd fold their 25% equity than call getting the proper odds.Otherwise, your goal is NOT to fold out draws. Protecting your hand against draws means you charge them the incorrect price to draw. It means you constantly take value away from your opponents by getting them to put their money in with the worst of it. You're going to lose to draws sometimes. You can't blame yourself for not getting them to fold. You can only blame yourself for losing too much money after they get there or for pricing them in with poor bet-sizing. You can also blame yourself for costing yourself value with your made hands by being so afraid of draws that you're always pushing them out of hands.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

For the record, you're never trying to bet out draws. You're trying to make draws make improper calls.

With all due respect, I think you're just saying this here without truly understanding what it means. "Protecting your hand against draws" does not mean getting your opponents to fold a draw. You're *not* trying to get an opponent to fold. The only time you want an opponent to fold a draw is in the rare instance where you're ahead and your bet gives them profitable odds to call, be it through poor bet-sizing or remaining stack size. For instance:If you get to the flop with 100 dollars in the pot and shove for your last 20 with a set of sixes on a 649dd flop, you'd rather just have AKdd fold their 25% equity than call getting the proper odds.Otherwise, your goal is NOT to fold out draws. Protecting your hand against draws means you charge them the incorrect price to draw. It means you constantly take value away from your opponents by getting them to put their money in with the worst of it. You're going to lose to draws sometimes. You can't blame yourself for not getting them to fold. You can only blame yourself for losing too much money after they get there or for pricing them in with poor bet-sizing. You can also blame yourself for costing yourself value with your made hands by being so afraid of draws that you're always pushing them out of hands.

Thank you. I am amazed at how often people just don't get this. You want people to call you when Pot Odds < Actual Odds. The trick is in not paying off their Implied Odds when they make their stinking hand. Everything else is just a bad beat story.

[Tarvold 0]

If my opponents had more money, I would have folded. But because they only had so little left over, I figured I couldn't fold for that little to have them show me 2 pair or a set.