Blind Vs Blind Vbet 3 Streets Then Wow, Huge River Shove,.. .02-.05

[rrumsey 0]

this is a semi line check, semi in general in the micros when can i hero call, and semi from villains point of view kind of post:ok been playing with villain for about 93 hands, don't have hud on my mac, but haven't seen a single showdown from villain, nothing beyond raise and takes at all, literally. At the time seemed very TAG. He was on 4 tables during happy hour so i assumed him to be a semi standard microstakes reg.my image, i had been on a bit of a hot streak so far, i have raised pre a decent amount and hit on some nice hands and shown down a fell, so im not sure if my image was a TAG running really well or a LAG who happened to show up with hands. Full Tilt Poker $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 450865The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBTN: $4.37Hero (SB): $6.54BB: $5.33UTG: $1.50CO: $5.00Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero is SB with K J 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.15, BB calls $0.10Flop: ($0.30) 5 8 K (2 players)Hero bets $0.15, BB calls $0.15Turn: ($0.60) 2 (2 players)Hero bets $0.45, BB calls $0.45River: ($1.50) 6 (2 players)Hero bets $1, BB raises to $4.58 all in, Hero requests TIME, Hero ,..........I'll hide the results for a second, but i'll give a hit, very suprising,...

[KingJames 11]

I generally raise 4x from the sb in BvB.As played bet more on the flop. He can call with worse kings, spade draws, 8x etc.I'm pretty nitty, but as Played I c/c river. It's hard to get 3 streets of value from top pair J kicker.As played, I fold the river. He is never value raising worse and I don't think villain bluff raise the river like ever.

[rrumsey 0]

I generally raise 4x from the sb in BvB.As played bet more on the flop. He can call with worse kings, spade draws, 8x etc.I'm pretty nitty, but as Played I c/c river. It's hard to get 3 streets of value from top pair J kicker.As played, I fold the river. He is never value raising worse and I don't think villain bluff raise the river like ever.

i have been doing 4x recently, and yah it is so much better than 3x imo, but i didn't know if i should still do that in sb when folded so i guess ill do thati totally agree i was about to throw that up there i as played think the cbet should be for .20 on the flop, it is just tourny habit for me i guess to just do 1/2 pot i didn't realize at the time it would be the same as the preflop which misses some valueI like check call to be honest, the 3rd barrel doesn't get "in theory" any value out of his air on the river. I guess i was focusing on K10 to try and get max value, it is about break even imo on if we chop or i win/lose based on the first 2 streets if he has KX.The river felt very suspect to me, i kind of don't ever expect a set here. My range on him was, busted flush draw, K10, KJ, KQ, AK, random luckboxed 2 pair happy to not see a flush out there, Air, but i had no reads to go on so i threw out all the air, which ended up being a total mistake.Im worried about what my hand looks like though, as you know im trying to avoid my FPS but if i had to read myself in villains shoes, i put myself on a decent K, so i guess i can't throw air out at all due to the fact that my line is pretty transparent,... check call if he overshoves??

[KingJames 11]

i have been doing 4x recently, and yah it is so much better than 3x imo, but i didn't know if i should still do that in sb when folded so i guess ill do thati totally agree i was about to throw that up there i as played think the cbet should be for .20 on the flop, it is just tourny habit for me i guess to just do 1/2 pot i didn't realize at the time it would be the same as the preflop which misses some valueI like check call to be honest, the 3rd barrel doesn't get "in theory" any value out of his air on the river. I guess i was focusing on K10 to try and get max value, it is about break even imo on if we chop or i win/lose based on the first 2 streets if he has KX.The river felt very suspect to me, i kind of don't ever expect a set here. My range on him was, busted flush draw, K10, KJ, KQ, AK, random luckboxed 2 pair happy to not see a flush out there, Air, but i had no reads to go on so i threw out all the air, which ended up being a total mistake.Im worried about what my hand looks like though, as you know im trying to avoid my FPS but if i had to read myself in villains shoes, i put myself on a decent K, so i guess i can't throw air out at all due to the fact that my line is pretty transparent,... check call if he overshoves??

Yes, 4x in BvB is better. 3x gives the BB 2-1 direct and he'll have position on you, so he can play a lot of hands profitably.The flop c-bet is strictly for value. we have the best hand here a lot. So let's get as much value as possible, especially with the draw heavy board.Checking the river is good. If he checks back, we win the pot against a hand that generally won't call a river bet. And we get to see what he defended in the BB in BvB which is good.Bolded- I agree that I don't think we should see a set here very often as I imagine he'd raise the turn for sure if not the flop to protect against the flush draw and for value.Italic- I was told that at the micros we don't really need to think about what our hand looks like to the villian as they aren't paying much attn. I like that you're thinking about it, but basically at the micros it's just make those hands, value bet and look for easy spots imo.

[Tarvold 0]

Kinda looks to me that maybe he hit two pair, either a K8 or whatever and felt safe after the flush never showed up to raise. I'm not sure though, as its a little hard to gauge what some people will defend with.

[KingJames 11]

Kinda looks to me that maybe he hit two pair, either a K8 or whatever and felt safe after the flush never showed up to raise. I'm not sure though, as its a little hard to gauge what some people will defend with.

Meh, K8 should raise the turn if not the flop. If hero has shown strength (pf raise, flop bet, turn bet), he has to imagine that hero has a K and will call a raise.

[Mills 0]

I think this is a fold... villians at this level do raise with busted draws on the end, but they generally don't stack off with them... it's possible... but I really don't think so. You're betting the whole way... so doing this with air is pretty silly as he should be expecting a call... this looks like a hand to me.

[rrumsey 0]

ok so i love the advice so far on this, but now i want you guys to put this in your pipe, smoke it and see what comes out:I folded, like i knew i should have done and told myself " nah don't worry about what my hand looked like" and what do you know, he showed his hand,....... ready for it,...... AQ off. blow my brains out! sick sick move! more sick is he showed it, I am somewhat trying to figure out if due to my play looking transparent he looked to float me knowing IP he could move me off a lot of hands,..... I still feel in the longrun the fold was right, but that was a square kick in the nuts! That is why im asking about what my line looks like,...also, here is the kicker, say i checked, he bets huge (lets say overshoves like he did,..) could i hero call based on him sometimes having a busted flush draw or just going sick with k10? knowing it would be thin of course

[KingJames 11]

Which is why he c/c so he can try to bloooof us<3 tho I think it's a great fold

[rrumsey 0]

Which is why he c/c so he can try to bloooof us<3 tho I think it's a great fold

so big bet you call expecting a busted flush right,... at least some of the time

[Mills 0]

yea, i dont mean to oversimplify, but i would probably say this is the exception and not the rule... no big deal... just go on to the next one

[KingJames 11]

so big bet you call expecting a busted flush right,... at least some of the time

Yeah, it's obv villain dependent. But as a generalization, people are terrible at value-betting, so if he has a set here he's going to bet like 1/2 pot I'd say, same as two-pair. So I think bigger bets are bluffs a lot (zomg fold equity), and over-bets are the nuts so yeah... if he bets .75 we're calling cause the price is right. I'm only folding if he over-bets because it's like the nutz always, and if he's bluffing we'll get him later.Also, I dunno how true it is, but maybe something about BvB makes people spaz out. And they get married to nice hands like AQo

[rrumsey 0]

Yeah, it's obv villain dependent. But as a generalization, people are terrible at value-betting, so if he has a set here he's going to bet like 1/2 pot I'd say, same as two-pair. So I think bigger bets are bluffs a lot (zomg fold equity), and over-bets are the nuts so yeah... if he bets .75 we're calling cause the price is right. I'm only folding if he over-bets because it's like the nutz always, and if he's bluffing we'll get him later.Also, I dunno how true it is, but maybe something about BvB makes people spaz out. And they get married to nice hands like AQo

it almost felt like a cardrunners float float shove kind of hand, but yah im probably way overthinking this for this limit, just wondering. thanks a lot guys!

[Jariso13 1]

Being that you havent seen any crazyness out of him I like the fold. I think he has 2 pair more times than he is bluffing here.

[Lucoo_ 0]

I generally raise 4x from the sb in BvB.As played bet more on the flop. He can call with worse kings, spade draws, 8x etc.I'm pretty nitty, but as Played I c/c river. It's hard to get 3 streets of value from top pair J kicker.As played, I fold the river. He is never value raising worse and I don't think villain bluff raise the river like ever.

[Stupidhead 2]

I generally raise 4x from the sb in BvB.As played bet more on the flop. He can call with worse kings, spade draws, 8x etc.I'm pretty nitty, but as Played I c/c river. It's hard to get 3 streets of value from top pair J kicker.As played, I fold the river. He is never value raising worse and I don't think villain bluff raise the river like ever.

I agree with everything accept the last part. Villain is repping absolutely nothing by shoving. On a draw heavy board all made hands raise the flop or turn. If he's TAG he's not playing K6, and 66 never makes it to the river. With so many busted draws on that board I really prefer hero calling in this spot.

[KingJames 11]

I agree with everything accept the last part. Villain is repping absolutely nothing by shoving. On a draw heavy board all made hands raise the flop or turn. If he's TAG he's not playing K6, and 66 never makes it to the river. With so many busted draws on that board I really prefer hero calling in this spot.

yeah, I'm a nit<3

[Biff Goods 0]

Which is why he c/c so he can try to bloooof us<3 tho I think it's a great fold

This pretty much sums up this hand...