Sng Grinder Thread

[supfreak26 0]

My advice:1) Bankroll management2) Pick a game and stick with it. Bouncing around and trying different things to work on your game is something to save for a bit later when you have a decent roll. Right now your priority should be finding your most profitable game and grinding that.

1. I get this. I was only playing under-rolled because I figured at these lower levels I could deposit another $25 whenever I need to. I could just deposit $75 and be rolled for the $1.10's. I might just do that if I get bored with the $.10 tourneys. The main reason I moved to the $1.10 turbos was due to time. I can play a complete 45 man tourney in about an hour. A 360 man tourney takes about 2.5 hours. My time is limited so I want to get in as many games as possible. 2. I actually thought about that this morning. I was 3-tabling last night with 2 cash tables and 1 tourney and it gets a little confusing jumping from one game to the other. Especially for a noob like myself. I think I'll stick to the turbos for now because I enjoy them more and I don't really have a roll for 2NL anyways. I'll concentrate on mastering these turbos and then branch out once I build a roll and feel more comfortable. I will continue to play the occasional $1 MTT when I can but that's maybe 1 a week or so. My biggest problem is patience. I really need to settle down.

[outsider13 0]

1. I get this. I was only playing under-rolled because I figured at these lower levels I could deposit another $25 whenever I need to. I could just deposit $75 and be rolled for the $1.10's. I might just do that if I get bored with the $.10 tourneys. The main reason I moved to the $1.10 turbos was due to time. I can play a complete 45 man tourney in about an hour. A 360 man tourney takes about 2.5 hours. My time is limited so I want to get in as many games as possible. 2. I actually thought about that this morning. I was 3-tabling last night with 2 cash tables and 1 tourney and it gets a little confusing jumping from one game to the other. Especially for a noob like myself. I think I'll stick to the turbos for now because I enjoy them more and I don't really have a roll for 2NL anyways. I'll concentrate on mastering these turbos and then branch out once I build a roll and feel more comfortable. I will continue to play the occasional $1 MTT when I can but that's maybe 1 a week or so. My biggest problem is patience. I really need to settle down.

When I first started sng's, all I played were non turbos. It basically allows you to nit up and take advantage of players that have no clue what they are doing. You can just sit back and let the bad players beat themselves up and you have far more time to pick your spots. Turbos are great if you have a good understanding of ICM, but the high variance can be tough, especially if you are only playing a few tables at a time. Even though the rake is higher, if you aren't putting in a ton of volume it may make more sense to play those.

[SGFULTON83 0]

1. I get this. I was only playing under-rolled because I figured at these lower levels I could deposit another $25 whenever I need to. I could just deposit $75 and be rolled for the $1.10's. I might just do that if I get bored with the $.10 tourneys. The main reason I moved to the $1.10 turbos was due to time. I can play a complete 45 man tourney in about an hour. A 360 man tourney takes about 2.5 hours. My time is limited so I want to get in as many games as possible. 2. I actually thought about that this morning. I was 3-tabling last night with 2 cash tables and 1 tourney and it gets a little confusing jumping from one game to the other. Especially for a noob like myself. I think I'll stick to the turbos for now because I enjoy them more and I don't really have a roll for 2NL anyways. I'll concentrate on mastering these turbos and then branch out once I build a roll and feel more comfortable. I will continue to play the occasional $1 MTT when I can but that's maybe 1 a week or so. My biggest problem is patience. I really need to settle down.

Try the 90-man .25 sng's NON-TURBO. They are soft(obv.) and actually have a decent structure so there is post-flop play where you can really take advantage.

[ezzo88 0]

Is there any rewards from the Sit n Go leaderboard points on stars...I realized im 76th in the Mercury slot is there any benefit from this?

[HighwayStar 8]

Is there any rewards from the Sit n Go leaderboard points on stars...I realized im 76th in the Mercury slot is there any benefit from this?

Freerolls and prizes.http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/promotions/battle/

[jmbreslin 0]

When I first started sng's, all I played were non turbos. It basically allows you to nit up and take advantage of players that have no clue what they are doing. You can just sit back and let the bad players beat themselves up and you have far more time to pick your spots. Turbos are great if you have a good understanding of ICM, but the high variance can be tough, especially if you are only playing a few tables at a time. Even though the rake is higher, if you aren't putting in a ton of volume it may make more sense to play those.

Same here, I grinded (ground?) the $1.20 STTs on Stars for a while. Even with the 20% rake those games are so soft and easy to beat. Problem was, once I got a taste of turbos I had a very hard time going back to regular speed STTs. I only play for a short time in the evenings so playing regular speed STTs means I can only play a couple of them in a session. Talk about grinding.

[jmbreslin 0]

I was 3-tabling last night with 2 cash tables and 1 tourney and it gets a little confusing jumping from one game to the other.

Mixing cash and tourney poker in the same session is the most confusing thing to do because the two types of poker are so different. Even mixing STTs and MTTs I find a bit confusing. I think it's just better for your development as a new player to focus on learning one game and becoming successful at that game before trying something else.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Mixing cash and tourney poker in the same session is the most confusing thing to do because the two types of poker are so different. Even mixing STTs and MTTs I find a bit confusing. I think it's just better for your development as a new player to focus on learning one game and becoming successful at that game before trying something else.

This is the correct way to handle this, but at a minimum if you insist on having tourney and cash games up make the game types different (if you play more than holdem). That way it will be easier for you to remember which is the tourney. You can also change your window sizes (larger one for tourney with small cash game windows on the side, etc.)

[Virtuoso80 0]

<delete>

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Hopefully you guys won't mind some PLO here. PLO is my worst game so I could use the help. I need your thoughts on the flop, am I supposed to go broke here?Milked from the teat of a feral cowPokerStars Pot Limit Omaha ($1.00+$0.20) $30/$60 - 4 playersBB mobbarly: $1,828.00 UTG Hero: $2,207.00 Button warden04: $3,483.00 SB Altre22: $1,482.00 Preflop: ($90.00) Hero is UTG with (4 players)Hero calls $60, warden04 calls $60, Altre22 calls $30, mobbarly checksFlop: ($240.00) (4 players)Altre22 checks, mobbarly checks, Hero bets $180, 2 folds, mobbarly raises to $780, Hero ???????

[jmbreslin 0]

I don't play shorthanded PLO but your hand is very marginal in this spot with two small pairs and no suitedness. If you flop a set you could still run into a bigger set (much more common in PLO than in NLHE) and you have no flush redraws to back it up. Even if you flop a straight draw you could be getting freerolled by a bigger straight. That said, it might be worth a look at the flop if you can see it for the minimum and play very carefully postflop.As played this is a bit of a sticky situation but with no straight draws possible your hand is in pretty decent shape. The only hand that has you in bad shape is top set, while you're well ahead of lots of other combos (bottom set+FD, TP+FD, FD+backdoor straight draw). Unless you can put him on exactly KKxx, this is a good spot to get it in.

[jmbreslin 0]

Just realized it's Feb 1 today, time for my Feb goal:1) Play as many $1.10 45's as possible and make money2) Throw in some $1.10 90's and make money3) Put in some half-decent Rush Poker volume and, you guessed it, make money

[Chet Chetterson 0]

My goals will be a lot simpler than jmb's.1. Make money.

[lurbz 2]

February Goals: Don't suck like January.I feel like 3k is more than possible, switching to DoNs, easiest game ever. Making sure I have optimal play before I MMT, figure I can smash these between $5 and $20 level for 5k+ a month @ my volume capabilities. I think I'm gunning for $1k before Friday, but that may be a little lofty.

[ezzo88 0]

Feburary Goals:1. Continue to beat the 1.75 and 3.4 18 player (One of the easiest games I think)2. Top 10 Battle of the Planets for 1-3 dollar range3. Top 100 for the 3-5 dollar range4. Bankroll for 6.50 18 playersGood luck!!

[trystero 0]

So I've tried grinding these for a few days, and they're................loltiltingFavorite hand out of the 20 sngs I've played so far was 3handed, 250/500, 5k stack I shove A9o into the 5500 bb who snaps with 89o and I lose

[ezzo88 0]

Yeah some of the calls/shoves at these levels i don't understand one bit, but it can be pretty easy to take advantage of

[jmbreslin 0]

So I've tried grinding these for a few days, and they're................loltiltingFavorite hand out of the 20 sngs I've played so far was 3handed, 250/500, 5k stack I shove A9o into the 5500 bb who snaps with 89o and I lose

Which ones are you grinding?

[trystero 0]

$2s and $5s 9-man. I've tried some 45/90-man sngs, but they just take way too long to complete, especially the 90s. I don't bother with turbos. If only Full Tilt weren't rigged then I'd be cleaning up. I've never run well at SNGs and that trend hasn't changed. Either that or basic probabilities are all wrong, and AK is NOT a 3-1 favorite over AT.The level of play has indeed been remarkable:Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG (t1470)UTG+1 (t1050)Hero (MP1) (t2305)MP2 (t1005)CO (t2912)Button (t1535)SB (t2235)BB (t988)Hero's M: 30.73Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6, 94 folds, CO bets t150, 1 fold, SB calls t125, 1 foldFlop: (t350) 5, J, 6(2 players)SB checks, CO bets t100, SB calls t100Turn: (t550) K(2 players)SB checks, CO bets t550, SB calls t550River: (t1650) J(2 players)SB checks, CO checksTotal pot: t1650Results:SB had 6, Q (two pair, Jacks and sixes).CO had 5, 5 (full house, fives over Jacks).Outcome: CO won t1650

[trystero 0]

I haven't done EV calcs in forever so could someone check my math?In this example I didn't shove during the game. The blinds were 60/120 and action folded to me in the SB with K8o. Villain had been playing tight and we were 2540 effective.Against 12% of a calling range (which seems reasonable against a tightish player) we have 31% equity, so the EV of a call is2720*.31 - 2540*.69 = -910So the EV of a shove would be180*.88 - 910*.12 = +49....so it's +EV to shove K8o. Is that math right or am I missing something? I literally haven't done one of these for 2 years, so I'm rusty.

[outsider13 0]

What type of sng? cEV and $EV are two different beasts, so if it's a stt, risking that much $EV for such little possible return seems like a very bad play. In general even, I'm not too fond of shoving that much for such little return. If he's nitty, the same can be accomplished with a raise, then you have an exit strategy at least.

[trystero 0]

It was a 9-handed SNG with 7 players remaining. I'm not looking to shove there; I was just wondering if I had done my math correctly because I had doubted the profitability of shoving.

[outsider13 0]

You'd need to calculate ICM here and not just cEV. 180 chips are nice, but they won't win you cash with 7 people left, however losing this hand loses all of your money. Basically, no need to risk all your money for a very little $equity return with such a marginal hand.edit, I know you were talking a hypothetical situation, I'm just saying that you have to think sngs (especially stts) as money made and lost with each move, not chips. That's why ICM is so much better here than just chip equity.

[trystero 0]

Yea I was really just inquiring into the way I had setup my formula. With that said I downloaded SNG Wizard to test it out, and I imported that hand, and Wiz estimates that the difference between pushing and folding is -.22 in favor of folding. But I have to question some of the Wizard's results. E.g. in this hand it recommends that I fold AK? I have to adjust villain's opening range to 20% for a call to be even marginally profitable. Perhaps I'm just interpreting the program incorrectly as I have no experience using it. I did set the operating model to ICM as opposed to Chip Model, with the latter saying to call and it wasn't even close. If I should fold here then boy I have a lot to learn about SNGs.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 120/240 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) (t2370)BB (t2255)UTG (t3160)Button (t5715)Hero's M: 6.58Preflop: Hero is SB with A , K UTG bets t3160 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls t2250 (All-In), 1 fold

[outsider13 0]

Yea I was really just inquiring into the way I had setup my formula. With that said I downloaded SNG Wizard to test it out, and I imported that hand, and Wiz estimates that the difference between pushing and folding is -.22 in favor of folding. But I have to question some of the Wizard's results. E.g. in this hand it recommends that I fold AK? I have to adjust villain's opening range to 20% for a call to be even marginally profitable. Perhaps I'm just interpreting the program incorrectly as I have no experience using it. I did set the operating model to ICM as opposed to Chip Model, with the latter saying to call and it wasn't even close. If I should fold here then boy I have a lot to learn about SNGs.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.25 Tournament, 120/240 Blinds (4 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero (SB) (t2370)BB (t2255)UTG (t3160)Button (t5715)Hero's M: 6.58Preflop: Hero is SB with A , K UTG bets t3160 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls t2250 (All-In), 1 fold

Yeah, bubble play can certainly be tricky. That is definitely a tough spot. The one thing to consider here is how deep you are. You are in absolutely no danger at all to bust this tournament if you fold, therefore you still have a lot of equity left on the fold. Should you call, well you are probably a flip vs. shovers 5-8% range here. So you have a lot more to lose than you do to gain. I still have a very hard time finding a fold here though, I do admit.But once you start playing around with Wiz, you'll notice that it's far more profitable to be shoving your chips than it is to call off your chips. Especially on the bubble.