Sng Grinder Thread

[Acekob 0]

So are you two saying that the OP's shove was a bad idea? Even if I'm wrong in guessing the villian's range, I still think he has to shove with the 55. He only has 2bb left and the blinds are going to hit him next hand.

No, OPs shove is correct 100% of the time, he is merely saying that re-shoving there is very +EV with just about any cards, just because OPs range is ridiculously wide, while they also a very good price on their money if the blinds fold. These pot odds are also there for the initial shover, whom also is getting at least 3-1 on his money if another person decides to play the pot.

[jmbreslin 0]

Did I say I love these super turbos? Cause they're going to make me cry. Thought things were turning around but then went right back into the shit. AQ<A8, JJ<KJ, AK<AJs. Twice built up a big stack and then watched it get decimated running into big hands and losing key flips.Sorry for turning this thread into my bitch session but this is the most frustrating run of poker I've ever encountered. I'm sacrificing everything I can find to the poker gods.*Edit: Add AQs<A8 and KK splitting a pot with KJ.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

Did I say I love these super turbos? Cause they're going to make me cry. Thought things were turning around but then went right back into the shit. AQ<A8, JJ<KJ, AK<AJs. Twice built up a big stack and then watched it get decimated running into big hands and losing key flips.Sorry for turning this thread into my bitch session but this is the most frustrating run of poker I've ever encountered. I'm sacrificing everything I can find to the poker gods.*Edit: Add AQs<A8 and KK splitting a pot with KJ.

If the bad runs are going to get you that upset may I suggest you stop playing them? As long as you played the hand correctly that's what you should be focusing on, the results will show up from there.

[jmbreslin 0]

I know, I know, it just gets to me because I'm a recreational player and can't play the high volume that helps a poker player deal with the variance in the short term. When you play high volume a bad run can last a few hours or a few days; when you play low volume, a bad run can last weeks or months. At least with these super turbos I can play a higher volume so I can see my performance over a larger sample. I've been playing for 3 years (I think that long), have tried many different games over that stretch, and I'm only marginally profitable. Just can't seem to get any steady uptrend on my chart. Group hug?I've also deliberately stopped updating my results in my sig for now because the results do tend to affect my play.

[Eba12 0]

I feel u jmbreslinMy 55 shove I posted earlier went up against A3s he turned a 3 and rivered another one....

[Eba12 0]

PokerStars Game #38492636338: Tournament #234476060, $0.10+$0.00 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2010/01/21 13:14:04 CET [2010/01/21 7:14:04 ET]Table '234476060 18' 9-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: xameleon33 (2480 in chips) Seat 2: M0JI0T (4385 in chips) Seat 3: Sklejkov (925 in chips) Seat 4: Tszen TI (3698 in chips) Seat 5: greeno53 (1750 in chips) Seat 6: Eba12 (2100 in chips) Seat 7: ELIBETA (2125 in chips) Seat 8: lauwman (15520 in chips) Seat 9: Jalisc0 (5570 in chips) M0JI0T: posts small blind 100Sklejkov: posts big blind 200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Eba12 [9s 9h]Tszen TI: folds greeno53: calls 200Eba12: raises 1900 to 2100 and is all-inELIBETA: raises 25 to 2125 and is all-inlauwman: calls 2125Jalisc0: folds xameleon33: folds M0JI0T: folds Sklejkov: calls 725 and is all-ingreeno53: calls 1550 and is all-in*** FLOP *** [3c 9c Jd]*** TURN *** [3c 9c Jd] [4c]*** RIVER *** [3c 9c Jd 4c] [Ac]*** SHOW DOWN ***ELIBETA: shows [Kc Th] (a flush, Ace high)lauwman: shows [Jh Ks] (a pair of Jacks)ELIBETA collected 50 from side pot-3 Eba12: shows [9s 9h] (three of a kind, Nines)ELIBETA collected 1050 from side pot-2 greeno53: shows [3d Td] (a pair of Threes)greeno53 is sitting outELIBETA collected 3300 from side pot-1 Sklejkov: shows [Tc Qh] (a flush, Ace high - lower cards)ELIBETA collected 4725 from main pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 9125 Main pot 4725. Side pot-1 3300. Side pot-2 1050. Side pot-3 50. | Rake 0 Board [3c 9c Jd 4c Ac]Seat 1: xameleon33 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: M0JI0T (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: Sklejkov (big blind) showed [Tc Qh] and lost with a flush, Ace highSeat 4: Tszen TI folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: greeno53 showed [3d Td] and lost with a pair of ThreesSeat 6: Eba12 showed [9s 9h] and lost with three of a kind, NinesSeat 7: ELIBETA showed [Kc Th] and won (9125) with a flush, Ace highSeat 8: lauwman showed [Jh Ks] and lost with a pair of JacksSeat 9: Jalisc0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)wtf man lol I feared some Aces or Kings but I didnt expect this

[lurbz 2]

Full Tilt Poker Game #17776106325: $11 + $1 Matrix 4x Sit & Go (134231115), Match 4 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:25:31 ET - 2010/01/21Seat 1: MrZigster (1,485)Seat 2: FHWiesbaden (1,155)Seat 3: mwald10924 (1,470)Seat 4: oreore (1,980)Seat 5: blocka666 (1,500)Seat 6: Bay View Bandit (1,500)Seat 7: surrounding (1,500)Seat 8: necka (1,410)Seat 9: DaemonReich (1,500)mwald10924 posts the small blind of 15oreore posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to DaemonReich [9c 9h]blocka666 foldsBay View Bandit calls 30surrounding foldsnecka calls 30DaemonReich ?????????Weird spot here for me. I don't like limping 99. Thoughts?

[Eba12 0]

yeah limp...

[outsider13 0]

yeah limp...

[supfreak26 0]

PokerStars Game #38492636338: Tournament #234476060, $0.10+$0.00 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2010/01/21 13:14:04 CET [2010/01/21 7:14:04 ET]Table '234476060 18' 9-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: xameleon33 (2480 in chips) Seat 2: M0JI0T (4385 in chips) Seat 3: Sklejkov (925 in chips) Seat 4: Tszen TI (3698 in chips) Seat 5: greeno53 (1750 in chips) Seat 6: Eba12 (2100 in chips) Seat 7: ELIBETA (2125 in chips) Seat 8: lauwman (15520 in chips) Seat 9: Jalisc0 (5570 in chips) M0JI0T: posts small blind 100Sklejkov: posts big blind 200*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Eba12 [9s 9h]Tszen TI: folds greeno53: calls 200Eba12: raises 1900 to 2100 and is all-inELIBETA: raises 25 to 2125 and is all-inlauwman: calls 2125Jalisc0: folds xameleon33: folds M0JI0T: folds Sklejkov: calls 725 and is all-ingreeno53: calls 1550 and is all-in*** FLOP *** [3c 9c Jd]*** TURN *** [3c 9c Jd] [4c]*** RIVER *** [3c 9c Jd 4c] [Ac]*** SHOW DOWN ***ELIBETA: shows [Kc Th] (a flush, Ace high)lauwman: shows [Jh Ks] (a pair of Jacks)ELIBETA collected 50 from side pot-3 Eba12: shows [9s 9h] (three of a kind, Nines)ELIBETA collected 1050 from side pot-2 greeno53: shows [3d Td] (a pair of Threes)greeno53 is sitting outELIBETA collected 3300 from side pot-1 Sklejkov: shows [Tc Qh] (a flush, Ace high - lower cards)ELIBETA collected 4725 from main pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 9125 Main pot 4725. Side pot-1 3300. Side pot-2 1050. Side pot-3 50. | Rake 0 Board [3c 9c Jd 4c Ac]Seat 1: xameleon33 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: M0JI0T (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 3: Sklejkov (big blind) showed [Tc Qh] and lost with a flush, Ace highSeat 4: Tszen TI folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: greeno53 showed [3d Td] and lost with a pair of ThreesSeat 6: Eba12 showed [9s 9h] and lost with three of a kind, NinesSeat 7: ELIBETA showed [Kc Th] and won (9125) with a flush, Ace highSeat 8: lauwman showed [Jh Ks] and lost with a pair of JacksSeat 9: Jalisc0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)wtf man lol I feared some Aces or Kings but I didnt expect this

That's rough but it happens. I've been playing 99 very cautiously lately after losing with them so much. With a little over 10bb left and in early position, I probably would've limped in. In late position, I'm shoving. Considering the flop, I would've shoved then anyways so unless someone shoved PF, I'd be broke as well after this hand.

Full Tilt Poker Game #17776106325: $11 + $1 Matrix 4x Sit & Go (134231115), Match 4 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:25:31 ET - 2010/01/21Seat 1: MrZigster (1,485)Seat 2: FHWiesbaden (1,155)Seat 3: mwald10924 (1,470)Seat 4: oreore (1,980)Seat 5: blocka666 (1,500)Seat 6: Bay View Bandit (1,500)Seat 7: surrounding (1,500)Seat 8: necka (1,410)Seat 9: DaemonReich (1,500)mwald10924 posts the small blind of 15oreore posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to DaemonReich [9c 9h]blocka666 foldsBay View Bandit calls 30surrounding foldsnecka calls 30DaemonReich ?????????Weird spot here for me. I don't like limping 99. Thoughts?

Limp this early in the tourney.

[Acekob 0]

That's rough but it happens. I've been playing 99 very cautiously lately after losing with them so much. With a little over 10bb left and in early position, I probably would've limped in. In late position, I'm shoving. Considering the flop, I would've shoved then anyways so unless someone shoved PF, I'd be broke as well after this hand.

And what do you do if someone raises you, fold?Def a shove spot with 9s there.

[outsider13 0]

Yeah, no other way to play 99 there with 10bb. Tough luck I guess.

[lurbz 2]

yeah limp...

Blergh. I like 5xing that way I can rep any A/K/Qxx flops with a cbet, but I'm a lot more aggro than most in 9 man turbos. Anyway, I 5xed and got folds.

[outsider13 0]

Blergh. I like 5xing that way I can rep any A/K/Qxx flops with a cbet, but I'm a lot more aggro than most in 9 man turbos. Anyway, I 5xed and got folds.

No real need to play super aggressive in the early stages though. And and any of those AKQ flops can be in their calling range too. You are basically willing to risk roughly 325 chips (150+175ish cbet) on perhaps a semibluff when you miss the flop?

[HighwayStar 8]

Both raising 99 and limping 99 are going to be profitable plays. I'm not sure which is more profitable. Limping is definitely going to the be the easier way to play the hand, but not neccessarily the best. I think in general I'd raise.

[supfreak26 0]

And what do you do if someone raises you, fold?Def a shove spot with 9s there.

I hate the 9s. and the 10s for that matter. I hate to fold if I'm raised but I don't like shoving either. Can I check? :)In real-time, I'd probably alternate depending on the table. If the others are limping in all the time, then a limp is a decent move here, IMO. Other times I shove. I swear I lose more with 99 and 1010 than any other hand.

[lurbz 2]

Solid Start. $12 Matrix is probably the easiest thing I've ever played.

[HighwayStar 8]

I hate the 9s. and the 10s for that matter. I hate to fold if I'm raised but I don't like shoving either. Can I check? :)In real-time, I'd probably alternate depending on the table. If the others are limping in all the time, then a limp is a decent move here, IMO. Other times I shove. I swear I lose more with 99 and 1010 than any other hand.

You should never limp here. Ever.You should definitely be winning with 99 and TT. If you're losing, it's probably because you limp in spots like this.

[supfreak26 0]

You should never limp here. Ever.You should definitely be winning with 99 and TT. If you're losing, it's probably because you limp in spots like this.

I disagree about the "definitely be winning" part. If it were folded to you and you are sitting in the CU or on the button, then a shove is a no-brainer. But in this spot, the OP has a little over 10bb, is 3rd to act on full ring where 1 has already limped in, and has one of the smaller stacks at the table. 99 and TT is a good hand but not a solid winning hand. I'm only shoving if I'm desperate at this position. Can someone run the numbers of your odds when someone calls with 1 or 2 overcards? I'm thinking it's 60/40 at best. That's a winning hand, sure, but that's not much better than a coinflip. Then again, this could be a major leak in my game. :)ETA: I just noticed it's a $.10 game. I'd probably play a lot looser in this case so a shove would probably be my move. Those tourneys are crazy. People calling with 76 and stuff. Worth a shot for a dime. If I'm playing with more cash, then I'm probably playing a bit tighter. Possibly another leak in my game. I'm still learning here.

[HighwayStar 8]

I'd say you're gonna be a decent favourite over a limp/calling range. By decent favourite I mean 60%+ - which is a huge edge for a 10 BB stack to take.Against 2 overs youre going to be around 55% depending on suits.

[supfreak26 0]

Status report:Moved into the $1.10 45-man turbos last week and I'm doing pretty well. It was quite an adjustment from the $.10 360-mans so I took a big hit to begin with but I'm starting to make profit daily over the last few days. It's not like the level of play is that much better. It's just the pacing of the tourney is different. My biggest challenge now is to stop getting knocked out in 6th and 7th place all the time. Over 50 games I have the following finishes:1st - 02nd - 23rd - 04th - 05th - 26th - 37th - 4I'm in the money 22% of the time but it's not enough to be profitable overall. ROI is -18% ATM. I'm getting to the bubble most times but struggle from there. I'm going to try and play for the win more instead of playing for the money. I need some more 3rd and 4th place finishes to get in the black. Current BR is at $38 after my last $25 deposit. I know I'm seriously underrolled for these tourneys but I really don't mind depositing $25 every 2 weeks or so if I need it until I can build it up a little. I'd rather be a little more aggressive now and I'll tighten the BR after I get past $100. Once I get past $100, I'm going to mix in some $2.20 180-mans but my main focus will be to grind turbos to $165 where I can start playing $3.25 45-mans. I'm also going to mix in a few big MTT's for fun. My ultimate goal is to get very good at those big tourneys so any practice I can get is good.

[supfreak26 0]

I'd say you're gonna be a decent favourite over a limp/calling range. By decent favourite I mean 60%+ - which is a huge edge for a 10 BB stack to take.Against 2 overs youre going to be around 55% depending on suits.

That's what I figured. I can see how limping could be a bad move here now. The more you have in the pot, the less advantage you have. Shoving may be close to a coinflip but maybe you can isolate and improve your odds. I didn't think about the extra players in the hand. Thanks for helping me plug a leak! I'll have to start shoving with confidence now. Just for giggles, is there any situation here where you would fold 99? For example, if a bigger stack shoves into you? if 2 or more bigger stacks shove into you? Let's assume you have 10 BB as in the case above.

[outsider13 0]

Just for giggles, is there any situation here where you would fold 99? For example, if a bigger stack shoves into you? if 2 or more bigger stacks shove into you? Let's assume you have 10 BB as in the case above.

Yeah, for sure. You can definitely fold 99 if that were the case. Say you are in the BB and somebody limps, one guy iso shoves and another guy shoves. 99 would definitely be a dog here. If the guy who limped here shoved, I'm probably still getting it in with 99 though. You have a pretty decent pair and 10bb. If it's the bubble though, you have to put that into consideration.

[jmbreslin 0]

I'm in the money 22% of the time but it's not enough to be profitable overall. ROI is -18% ATM. I'm getting to the bubble most times but struggle from there. I'm going to try and play for the win more instead of playing for the money.

This is key. One of the biggest adjustments I made when moving from STTs to 45-turbos was that you can't just sneak into the money. You won't make any money that way because you'll often be so shortstacked that you'll usually end up busting out on the bubble or just after it (which looks like it is happening with you). The best way to make the adjustment is to focus on turning on the aggression once the tournament gets just past the halfway point (i.e., <20 people left). That's when you need to be opening up your game, especially with resteals, semi-bluff pushes, and so on. You will bust out in the teens more often, but you'll also put yourself in a better position to go deep more often. You absolutely want to avoid going into the final 10 or so as a shortstack because it is very difficult to dig yourself out of that hole.

[jmbreslin 0]

That's what I figured. I can see how limping could be a bad move here now. The more you have in the pot, the less advantage you have. Shoving may be close to a coinflip but maybe you can isolate and improve your odds. I didn't think about the extra players in the hand. Thanks for helping me plug a leak! I'll have to start shoving with confidence now.

Don't forget fold equity, you have to factor that in to your overall equity with the push. If there is a 33% chance villain will fold when you push (as an example), giving you the money in the pot, that makes pushing even more +ev. I would push 99 in that hand with very little hesitation.