Sng Grinder Thread

[Ben_G 0]

Off the top of my head I'd say this is a snap fold, but I'll run numbers just to confirm.Thorr looks fairly strong considering his raise size to stack size. The shorty shove can't be all too wide either. Running some numbers in stove (with fairly wide ranges), you'd need just under 3-1 to make this call. Assuming that all of thorrrr's chips are going in (which about 98.75% of the time they are), you are only getting about 2-1.

equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	41.310%	  40.22% 	01.09% 	   89412147072 	2431163726.00   { 55+, A9s+, ATo+ }Hand 1: 	32.434%	  31.29% 	01.15% 	   69561180588 	2548570598.00   { 44+, A5s+, KJs+, A5o+, KTo+ }Hand 2: 	26.255%	  26.07% 	00.19% 	   57954338604 	417932180.00   { 44 }

Ya i folded both but just needed to be sure.

[supfreak26 0]

I've been playing with the $.10 360-man turbos today after watching that 45-man video posted in this thread earlier. Spent all day playing and I think I'm $.40 up. Pretty good learning experience as I hadn't played turbos much before. Have to admit they are a blast!

[Chet Chetterson 0]

DoN turbos will not help your overall game, play non turbo sng's if anything to improve overall skill. DoN's will help with short stack play more however, as you the entire table is in that situation for longer in the DoN.

Apologies in advance if this gets a bit rambling, but would appreciate some advice here.I've switched from MTTs to SNGs recently and have pretty much been grinding two types - $6.50 45 turbos and $10.40 double or nothing turbos. I'm comfortable 12 tabling the former and 20-25 tabling the later (sometimes more depending on mood) but never at the same time.It's struck me that these are a bit polarised in playing style and it makes me wonder if it's limiting my improvement and if I should focus more on one than the other. In general, I think mixing it up helps me at times, because I can use the DONs to somewhat act as a steam blocker if I go on a really bad downswing at the 45s. I can get back to a steady build instead, without risking further and further obvious downswings. I know in the longterm these downswings will be irrelevant anyway, but the change seems to help me short term.But, everything I've seen online seems to suggest I could get a better return on the 45 mans if I really got the hang of them.At the moment I am only just scraping a positive ROI in 45 mans, but over the last 500 or so, this has been more like 10% and I feel I'm getting to grips with them. Was dreadful at first!I'm a more solid DON player I think - 6% ROI in over 2,000, with a high hourly volume.Should I throw my attention towards one only? It sometimes feels like the restraint required in DONs makes me play the opposite in 45s and I get a little too attacking. Just enjoy the opportunity to open up!Thanks in advance for any advice.

[outsider13 0]

First hand of a $27 stt. No reads at all. Scoped on the fly and the guy is a break even player. Curious as to what you guys do.Poker Stars $25+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 9 players - View hand 473413The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History ConverterBTN: t1500 M = 50SB: t1500 M = 50BB: t1500 M = 50Hero (UTG): t1500 M = 50UTG+1: t1500 M = 50UTG+2: t1500 M = 50MP1: t1500 M = 50MP2: t1500 M = 50CO: t1500 M = 50Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is UTG with Q QHero raises to t60, UTG+1 calls t60, UTG+2 calls t60, MP1 raises to t300, folds to me, hero??

[jmbreslin 0]

If he's a break-even player at this level, he's probably not 3-betting lightly here given that it's the first hand and he's facing a raise from UTG with a couple of callers. It's a great spot to set-mine with hands like TT/JJ, and you can probably exclude AJ and even AQ from his range. That pretty much leaves AA/KK/AK as a realistic range.Looks like a shove or fold, depending on how likely you think it is that he'll call with the AK part of his range.I probably raise a bit bigger to start since 60 chips doesn't look like much and will likely get callers. I go to at least 80, possibly even 100.

[outsider13 0]

If he's a break-even player at this level, he's probably not 3-betting lightly here given that it's the first hand and he's facing a raise from UTG with a couple of callers. It's a great spot to set-mine with hands like TT/JJ, and you can probably exclude AJ and even AQ from his range. That pretty much leaves AA/KK/AK as a realistic range.Looks like a shove or fold, depending on how likely you think it is that he'll call with the AK part of his range.I probably raise a bit bigger to start since 60 chips doesn't look like much and will likely get callers. I go to at least 80, possibly even 100.

60 is my standard always in this level. I know what you mean and I know it's commonly done there, but like I said, it's just my standard. I prefer smaller pots early if possible, and I'm not too shabby at post flop play for a sng guy.

[jmbreslin 0]

60 is my standard always in this level. I know what you mean and I know it's commonly done there, but like I said, it's just my standard. I prefer smaller pots early if possible, and I'm not too shabby at post flop play for a sng guy.

Sure, but if the smaller raise brings an extra caller or two, your small pot is out the window and now you're playing QQ against several villains OOP.

[outsider13 0]

Sure, but if the smaller raise brings an extra caller or two, your small pot is out the window and now you're playing QQ against several villains OOP.

People actually play a lot nittier in the early levels in the $27s so far. This doesn't happen too often.

[Darth Maple 0]

Is my thinking floored....Taken from my 'drafts' in my blog. Quite interesting...I really feels that every time I have a good solid 10-12 table session of $1.10 45 man turbos it can go either way. I could make $10-$15 easy but then the next session I could lose $10-$15 easy and I was seemingly getting nowhere. I started crunching some numbers and it may be that what I'm doing has some significant flaws. Allow me to explain:Level Rake R.O.I Total Profit (per game)$1.10 10% 10% $0.11$1.20 20% 15% $0.18$0.25 0% 75% $0.19Interesting huh? It appears that I should dip back down to the $0.25 limits as there is no rake and my ROI is much much higher therefore meaning I earn more per game down at that level than I do above.

[supfreak26 0]

What BR would you recommend for playing $1.10 45-man turbos? Would 50 BI be too small? My goal is to deposit once and grow from there, moving up stakes as I go. Also, what is a good ROI for these 45-man turbos? Are there any known players that make their bread and butter off these kind of tourneys?

[supfreak26 0]

Is my thinking floored....Taken from my 'drafts' in my blog. Quite interesting...I really feels that every time I have a good solid 10-12 table session of $1.10 45 man turbos it can go either way. I could make $10-$15 easy but then the next session I could lose $10-$15 easy and I was seemingly getting nowhere. I started crunching some numbers and it may be that what I'm doing has some significant flaws. Allow me to explain:Level Rake R.O.I Total Profit (per game)$1.10 10% 10% $0.11$1.20 20% 15% $0.18$0.25 0% 75% $0.19Interesting huh? It appears that I should dip back down to the $0.25 limits as there is no rake and my ROI is much much higher therefore meaning I earn more per game down at that level than I do above.

Why is your ROI so different between $1.10 and $1.20? Is it because the $1.20's aren't turbos?

[outsider13 0]

What BR would you recommend for playing $1.10 45-man turbos? Would 50 BI be too small? My goal is to deposit once and grow from there, moving up stakes as I go. Also, what is a good ROI for these 45-man turbos? Are there any known players that make their bread and butter off these kind of tourneys?

Yeah, I would think that it's a bit small, especially if you plan on multi tabling.. 50 is about right for stts ( prefer more), but 45 mans you go on much longer lows.As for roi, not sure. Probably lurbz can answer that. I would say 10-15% is about right though long term.

[outsider13 0]

Is my thinking floored....Taken from my 'drafts' in my blog. Quite interesting...I really feels that every time I have a good solid 10-12 table session of $1.10 45 man turbos it can go either way. I could make $10-$15 easy but then the next session I could lose $10-$15 easy and I was seemingly getting nowhere. I started crunching some numbers and it may be that what I'm doing has some significant flaws. Allow me to explain:Level Rake R.O.I Total Profit (per game)$1.10 10% 10% $0.11$1.20 20% 15% $0.18$0.25 0% 75% $0.19Interesting huh? It appears that I should dip back down to the $0.25 limits as there is no rake and my ROI is much much higher therefore meaning I earn more per game down at that level than I do above.

Swings in sngs are 1000% normal. You can never measure success from session to session. It's measured over long term. Getting 10-15% is totally acceptable imho. 75% is a great roi and trying to achieve something like that in 45 mans is just not going to happen. Try to start measuring your success weekly or monthly rather than daily or hourly. You will end up soul crushed far too often if you think that not cashing in 10 or 15 45 man sngs is not normal. It usually gets made up by the session where you dominate and cash 5/7.I would stick to the turbos fwiw. If it allows you to get an extra 4-6 games in a day, it ends up being more money in your pocket. Plus the rake is lower.

[Darth Maple 0]

Why is your ROI so different between $1.10 and $1.20? Is it because the $1.20's aren't turbos?

Yep.

[Darth Maple 0]

What BR would you recommend for playing $1.10 45-man turbos? Would 50 BI be too small? My goal is to deposit once and grow from there, moving up stakes as I go. Also, what is a good ROI for these 45-man turbos? Are there any known players that make their bread and butter off these kind of tourneys?

1.) I use 70 buy ins2.) 10-15%3.) Look up Macros909 on www.officialpokerrankings.com, he lives in Argentina where the cost of living is low and I'm fairly sure he makes a living off playing $3.25 45 man SNG's. If not, its a sick volume.

[Darth Maple 0]

Swings in sngs are 1000% normal. You can never measure success from session to session. It's measured over long term. Getting 10-15% is totally acceptable imho. 75% is a great roi and trying to achieve something like that in 45 mans is just not going to happen. Try to start measuring your success weekly or monthly rather than daily or hourly. You will end up soul crushed far too often if you think that not cashing in 10 or 15 45 man sngs is not normal. It usually gets made up by the session where you dominate and cash 5/7.I would stick to the turbos fwiw. If it allows you to get an extra 4-6 games in a day, it ends up being more money in your pocket. Plus the rake is lower.

Thanks for your input.

[Eba12 0]

that macros909 is at mine and 30 other tables atm :oat a 45 3.25 at 50/100 blinds UTG with 1300 stack AK suited shove/3xbet?i 3x bet but after thinking of i tend to lean to shoving now

[outsider13 0]

that macros909 is at mine and 30 other tables atm :oat a 45 3.25 at 50/100 blinds UTG with 1300 stack AK suited shove/3xbet?i 3x bet but after thinking of i tend to lean to shoving now

Ya, I'd shove.

[supfreak26 0]

1.) I use 70 buy ins2.) 10-15%3.) Look up Macros909 on www.officialpokerrankings.com, he lives in Argentina where the cost of living is low and I'm fairly sure he makes a living off playing $3.25 45 man SNG's. If not, its a sick volume.

1) I think I could swing that.2) That sounds about right. 3) Macros909 plays a lot of volume but is not a profitable player. He played 15K tourneys in 2009 and only profited $1360? Most months he was in the hole. He had one big month of $1600 that got him out of the red. Ouch. Check out Frenzuh. He did similar volume and profited $22K last year. Of course his average BI is $12 but that's more along the lines of the model I'd like to follow. All he does is turbos AFAIK. Any other examples like this?I doubt I could do that kind of volume but I think if I had that kind of BR, I'd be trying some MTT donkaments along the way. I'd be a regular at the Sunday Millions for sure. All it takes is one good finish in that tourney.

[supfreak26 0]

Ya, I'd shove.

Me too.

[jmbreslin 0]

People actually play a lot nittier in the early levels in the $27s so far. This doesn't happen too often.

Valid point, I forgot we weren't talking about a micro donkfest.

[Ben_G 0]

1) I think I could swing that.2) That sounds about right. 3) Macros909 plays a lot of volume but is not a profitable player. He played 15K tourneys in 2009 and only profited $1360? Most months he was in the hole. He had one big month of $1600 that got him out of the red. Ouch. Check out Frenzuh. He did similar volume and profited $22K last year. Of course his average BI is $12 but that's more along the lines of the model I'd like to follow. All he does is turbos AFAIK. Any other examples like this?I doubt I could do that kind of volume but I think if I had that kind of BR, I'd be trying some MTT donkaments along the way. I'd be a regular at the Sunday Millions for sure. All it takes is one good finish in that tourney.

frenzuh for sure and check out vgreen22 he plays higher stakes but he is wild to watch. There is a good video from frenzuh that is very benificial for starting out in these 45mans that lurbz posted earlier in this thread.

[lurbz 2]

frenzuh for sure and check out vgreen22 he plays higher stakes but he is wild to watch. There is a good video from frenzuh that is very benificial for starting out in these 45mans that lurbz posted earlier in this thread.

msusyr24 > frenzuhthey have a prop bet for 2010, somewhere on PTPanyway...my FTP account got reopened today, so I swapped $10 to screw around...DaemonReich 2 $30 $5 853% $60 - 78 FullTiltsick ROI imo. <3 $7.50 super turbo matrixes and $3.30 KO 90 mans. I may grind these since I suck at 45 mans now (Not updating OP anymore, it's that bad.)

[Ben_G 0]

msusyr24 > frenzuhthey have a prop bet for 2010, somewhere on PTPanyway...my FTP account got reopened today, so I swapped $10 to screw around...DaemonReich 2 $30 $5 853% $60 - 78 FullTiltsick ROI imo. <3 $7.50 super turbo matrixes and $3.30 KO 90 mans. I may grind these since I suck at 45 mans now (Not updating OP anymore, it's that bad.)

Just the word FTP makes me want to lob off an arm.....cant believe people still play there

[potatoman 0]

I play at FT ATM, but once I actually make my first deposit and clear the bonus, I'm back to PS.