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I think so. He's not super-short, he's shoving 10BB from UTG+1. You're behind his range here. You're most likely flipping against a PP, but with 10BB yourself you don't need to call off your stack as a coinflip dog. Remote possibilities are hands like AJ or KQs, but those are offset by the hands that have you crushed (AA/KK/QQ/AK). Plus you'll have prime stealing position for the next few hands.
Yeah I called while multitabling and then said "oh shit" but results were nice.[x] luckbox
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In response to your question, $1.10 DoN SNGs are going to be difficult to beat the rake in, as are $1.20s. I may go down to the $0.25 45 and 90 mans and play those, there's no rake to be paid and I would imagine them to be super soft. You'll probably be able to beat the DoNs enough to get started but the rake is just awful. If you can get to around $50, I'd say start going at the $3.25 6 max SNGs or $1.10 45 mans, and then if you drop back to $30 going back to DoNs until you're able to get back and have success in the 6 max/45 mans. My main suggestion would be the 45 mans but I don't know your play well enough to give you a definitive answer.
Those things are super high variance. The $1.10 45's are good roll-builders, though the variance can also get pretty frustrating in those. OP might be better off just starting with the basic STTs to build some momentum.
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Those things are super high variance. The $1.10 45's are good roll-builders, though the variance can also get pretty frustrating in those. OP might be better off just starting with the basic STTs to build some momentum.
The 1.10 90 mans are good roll builders as well from my experience. I prefer them to the 45-mans as the structure is slower and it pays better when you reach top 3.
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I am having struggles with how to deal with people limping in the later stages of the SNG. In the micro levels players like to limp monster hands that they should be raising with to catch others with strong hands who properly shove in a given situation. Is there any way to combat this or do you just have to shove and accept that you were trapped?

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been mostly playing MTT's recently but this might inspire me to get back into grinding sng's a little more.as for thisi can see a case for either. folding and not mixing it up with a big stack here is the safest/smartest way to a cash(obv). fold makes even more sense with a few other small stacks on the verge of going out. open shove from utg leads me to thinking fold also...but i've had more than the 15 second time bank to think about it, things look a little different in the moment. that said, i don't think a call is too bad. with a small stack calling there's a little added insurance of him getting busted and allowing me to squeak into a min-cash even if i lose. if i call and win the hand, i coast to the top 3 which is where the majority of the money is.
I would personally have folded A8 in this spot, knowing that people will incorrectly make hero calls with as little as KQs/44's. Against regs, you can sometimes be a bit looser with your shoves, since they will have very predictable call ranges.Nice thread.
The AK is a call. I mean, it's pretty much the nuts right, and maybe if sweetbiscuit had a stack we could argue a fold. But when shorty is calling off 2.5bb, it can be virtually anything so that really shouldn't weigh in the decision.And yes, the A8 should be discussed, I'm pretty sure you know that's horrible with a 20bb stack this far oop. (edit, is it the bubble? If so, not too bad, but still pretty wide range)
You said yourself you rarely raise at a FT. And you said this villian was not a reg so he is probably interpreting your shove as weak. I can see an argument for folding because he'll be in the money in a few hands with a very decent stack relative to the table, but my personal opinion is to play for the win.I like SNG's but I don't ahve the time to put a much volume in, just dabble every once in a while. I would definitely like to start playing more. Great idea for a thread.
Illegal to use SS while playing.Is my call as bad as I think it is?feral_cow_icon.gifFeral Cow Poker Hand ConverterPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em ($11+$1) t400/t800 ante t50 - 8 playersUTG: t9,422 UTG+1: t9,454 MP: t9,148 HJ: t7,815 CO: t3,126 Button: t5,263 SB: t8,209 (Hero)BB: t15,063 Preflop: (t1,600) Hero is SB with :club::ts (8 players)UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t9404 and is all-in, 4 folds, Hero calls t7759 and is all-in, BB foldsFlop: (t17,518) :jh:4h:3h (2 players)Turn: (t17,518) :qh (2 players)River: (t17,518) :5c (2 players)

UTG+1 showed As Jd, and lost with a pair of KingsHero showed Qs Ah, and won (17518) with a pair of KingsHero won t17518

I call also. I don't think it's bad.
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Wee, count me in. Just returned to SnGs after a vacation playing cash NLHE, followed by cash PLO. Tourney poker will always have my heart. These days I'm playing $3.40 turbo STTs with some $3.25 45's mixed in.
Try to get off the $3.40s pretty quick. As easy as they are, the rake is stupid. No reason they should be charging 13%.
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Yeah, It's pretty bad from an ICM standpoint. He's not likely crushing anybody's range and it's the bubble and there's 3 lesser stacks, 2 of them with 4bb.
Yeah it's absolutely terrible. I'm ashamed.
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I am having struggles with how to deal with people limping in the later stages of the SNG. In the micro levels players like to limp monster hands that they should be raising with to catch others with strong hands who properly shove in a given situation. Is there any way to combat this or do you just have to shove and accept that you were trapped?
Accept it. The thing about SnGs is that late-game play becomes very formulaic, and you will never have a solid enough read on a player that a high blind limp means AA/KK. Sometimes you will get caught but more often than not you'll steal yourself a nice pot by shoving over high-blind limpers. The only time you can be certain that a limp=AA is when someone limp-reraises in the early levels. That's a very common low stakes move with AA.
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Try to get off the $3.40s pretty quick. As easy as they are, the rake is stupid. No reason they should be charging 13%.
Eh, it's not terrible - not far off the next level rake of 10% at $5.50 and much better than the 20% at the $1.20 level. It's really not difficult to beat the rake in micro stakes SnGs.
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Eh, it's not terrible - not far off the next level rake of 10% at $5.50 and much better than the 20% at the $1.20 level. It's really not difficult to beat the rake in micro stakes SnGs.
If you are seriously grinding, 10% vs. 13% maqke4s a dif, seriously. Im drunk, but these things defintely affect your end roi. If your goal is liek 10% or 15% roi longh term, these4 extra percentage points make a big dif.
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What is ICM?Also, this sounds like a cool idea and I plan on posting hands in here since I'm about to start grinding sng's to buid a bankroll. I just cashed some freeroll's and have ~30 in my account now. Which sng's should I be playing? I thought about the $1.10 double or nothing's or the single table 9-man $1.20's. Anybody have any better ideas?
This isn't meant for a brag but I started with $5 in mid November and played solely $0.10 360 and $0.25 45 man SNG's until I hit $77. It was a long grind but now I'm playing $1.20's with a $88 bankroll. I'm a super nit bankroll wise and try to have 70 buy ins. GL.
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If you are seriously grinding, 10% vs. 13% maqke4s a dif, seriously. Im drunk, but these things defintely affect your end roi. If your goal is liek 10% or 15% roi longh term, these4 extra percentage points make a big dif.
This.If you end up grinding DoN's, the gap from $1 + $0.10s to $5 + $0.20 is massive.
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Mhe, I hate early play in those ¤!(=¤/!=/ments some times!How wide is your range during the 10/20-50/100 levels?
Ehhhh I'll PM this, it's a public forum and I don't want regs stumbling across my range listing.
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If you are seriously grinding, 10% vs. 13% maqke4s a dif, seriously. Im drunk, but these things defintely affect your end roi. If your goal is liek 10% or 15% roi longh term, these4 extra percentage points make a big dif.
Sure, but the games are so soft that you don't really feel it. It's not like trying to beat the rake at micro stakes cash O8.
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Yeesh, I stand corrected. I just looked at my stats since I returned to STTs a few weeks ago.ROI including rake: -3.07ROI excluding rake: +9.85[slaps forehead] Of course 13% is a big chunk taken out of profits!Next level of turbos is actually $6.50, which is 8.3%, followed by $15+1, which is 6.66666666% (on Stars). Kind of annoying how there are such big jumps between levels. Unless you want to play DoNs there are no turbo STTs between $6 and $15.

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Yay, I like this thread.Im focussing primarily on SNGs...working with a 50 Buy In rule. If I decide to play turbos, Ill switch to 100 Buy Ins (dont feel so confident at Turbos)Currently sitting at 370 bucks ish and playing 5.50 regular speed 9 mans. I also have a very low volume as I don't have the time to play much. I also use a HUD (HeM)..oh and if anyone has any issues with Hem, just holler, I'm pretty swept up on it - have helped a few FCP'ers get it up and running and stuff.Nice thread Lurbzzz, I'll be following with interest. :club:

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If you are seriously grinding, 10% vs. 13% maqke4s a dif, seriously. Im drunk, but these things defintely affect your end roi. If your goal is liek 10% or 15% roi longh term, these4 extra percentage points make a big dif.
:club:
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Had a go over the past 2 days of making the low orbit leaderboard grinding 1.20's. Fell a little short having got 392 points. Top 100 you need at least 432. Grrr! So close. Ahh well I'm in profit like $20.

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Currently sitting at 370 bucks ish and playing 5.50 regular speed 9 mans. I also have a very low volume as I don't have the time to play much.
Very similar to where I am, ~$330 but sticking with the $3.40 turbos for the time being. Also dabble in the $3.25, 45-turbos. I prefer regular speed STTs but since I play low volume I like the ability to play more in the time frame that turbos bring. I also have a bit of a psychological issue with the $5.50's - for some reason both times I've tried to move up I've gone on a big downswing.
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I suppose since everyone is posting this...I'm backed for $6.50 and $12 45 person SNGs on Stars, up to 21 tabling usually, and may be extending to $7.70 and $12 180s as well as $6.50 and $16 18s, possibly 90 man KOs on FTP soon, and may add $27 45s as well. January will decide a lot of this.

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Hopefully playing only $36 180s and $60 90s this year barring prop bets.What's the max acheivable ROI in various formats (I'm assuming turbo unless statedeg9 man 9 man super turbo18 man45 man180 man180 man non turboFor 180 non turbo you can get up towards 90% I believe, a decent grinder will manage 60%For 180 turbos, most decent grinders get somewhere between 15 and 30% and the really goood ones push up past 40%.It takes a huge sample size to realise your true ROI in these though.I've no idea about the others. I guess the answer is a function of the buy in too.

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Final table of a 1.10 90-man on Stars. There are two short stacks that are playing conservatively hoping just to move up in winnings. Should I be playing to win and try to steal the blinds with a marginal ace or should I be playing to knock out the short stacks, then try to manage a win? Payouts for top 6 are 25, 17, 13, 8.50, 6.30, 4.72 (early numbers rounded)PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 1.1 Tournament, 625/1250 Blinds 150 Ante (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB (t37680)BB (t6898)UTG (t5430)MP (t21917)Hero (CO) (t11590)Button (t51485)Hero's M: 4.18Preflop: Hero is CO with 6spade.gif, Adiamond.gif2 folds, Hero bets t11440 (All-In), Button raises to t22500, 2 foldsFlop: (t25655) 10club.gif, 6diamond.gif, 9heart.gif(2 players, 1 all-in)Turn: (t25655) 10spade.gif(2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t25655) 9club.gif(2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: t25655

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