Creation Question

[uncooper 1]

And then this---------Well, I have it on good Authority that we will all be leaving one day..so you guys have that to look forward too.I don't look forward to it! I don't want to get old and decrepid! I wish science would advance so that I could live to play baseball with my great, great, great, great grandchildren! But I will take what I can get and daily am constantly reminded just how fucking lucky I am to have even been here in the first place! I love the fact the I was lucky enough to have children, (who are lucky enough) to be here on this amazing and interesting planet. Some mornings when I am running and the sun is coming up, it's so breathtakingly beautiful I have to just stop and stare in awe and wonder and be thankful to be alive.

Heh. Pretty sure BG was referring to Rapture, when he will be leaving, but not us.

[brvheart 1,752]

Heh. Pretty sure BG was referring to Rapture, when he will be leaving, but not us.

Only if he is a pre-trib Christian.

[Spademan 94]

Well I do think that is on the cynical side.

I think it was Shaw who said, and I might be paraphrasing: "Cynicism is what good judgment is called by those who haven't got it." You may however be mistaking my misanthropy for the sort that cuts me off from everyone else socially. It isn't. I'm not some reclusive curmudgeon.I stay in the thick of things and play the game because despite it all people still have their qualities.

I'm very curious as to hear what your opinions are on the C.S. Lewis book, The Problem of Pain. Have you read it? Can you please and let me know?

I have not.It's been mentioned before when I've talked to people about "the problem of evil" but I've never picked it up. I fleshed out my understanding of suffering long ago with introspection and reading about, then spitting in the face of buddhist philosophy. Never one to exclude further understanding or, contrary to popular opinion, the foundations of other peoples understanding, I'll read it just for you.It may take some reminding though, I've got a bit of a book back log atm.

[brvheart 1,752]

I have not.It's been mentioned before when I've talked to people about "the problem of evil" but I've never picked it up. I fleshed out my understanding of suffering long ago with introspection and reading about, then spitting in the face of buddhist philosophy. Never one to exclude further understanding or, contrary to popular opinion, the foundations of other peoples understanding, I'll read it just for you.It may take some reminding though, I've got a bit of a book back log atm.

I only mention it because I think you'll really enjoy it. I mean, you'll totally disagree with it, but I think you'll enjoy it.

[Spademan 94]

I only mention it because I think you'll really enjoy it. I mean, you'll totally disagree with it, but I think you'll enjoy it.

That actually sounds fairly intriguing, I'll definitely check it out.

[SweetDee 0]

Well, it isn't just one myth.Nor is it all that astonishing when you take a step back and look at we higher-functioning primates as a whole."Higher-functioning" is extremely relative. When you actually listen to what people say and read what they write the frailty and fallibility of our kind is apparent.Human beings are afraid and alone, and conscious self-awareness is a difficult burden when not founded on solid reasonable faculties. We are born impressionable and helpless and are wont to "believe" any number of things that shield our fearful minds from the terrible thought of death or insignificance. Hitchens put it well when he said that we "remain a stupid, poorly evolved mammalian species... our problem is this: our pre-frontal lobes are too small, and our adrenalin glands are too big, and our thumb/finger opposition isn't all that it might be, and we're afraid of the dark and we're afraid to die and we believe in the truths of Holy books that are so stupid and so fabricated that a child can -- and all children do, as you can tell by their questions -- actually see through them."Humanity is the crowd at Walmart. And even the minority few who are educated well are tainted by all of their previous stupidity and socially ingrained ignorance and superstitions. A psychology doctorate here believing in alien abduction and astral travel, a physicists there thinking their particular sky elf made this law or that, a charismatic and intelligent leader of some peoples setting up an ego-driven ideology and propping himself up as some sort of god to the exclusion of all others in a violent and unreasonable push to power...Humans are animals, and it is not astonishing at all when we understand that we are such.

This reminds me of a current situation I am going through. It started a few weeks ago, when, against my better judgment I accepted an invitation for my wife and I to hang out with some close friends in a hot tub after a nice dinner out with them. This offer had been extended multiple times, and I always shoot it down, because my spidey sense tells me that things may happen that I am just not into. This time, I was in an F it mood, let's have some drinks and enjoy the night. So, we did. Polished off one of those big bottles of Captain Morgan type shit you get from Sams Club, and a bottle of some type of Schnapps bullshit that pretends its some other shot, like a Washington Apple. It was nice, just b.s.ing and messing around, talking in rather juvenile ways about various scenarios that could happen, normal stuff for a hot tub with friends. You talk about things, but you don't do them. Until you do. It started with my wife and I getting hot and heavy together, first oral enjoyment and then ****ing. It was a little surreal, I hadn't had sex in front of another couple since high school when we couldn't afford two hotel rooms to party in. No big deal, though, nobody's getting hurt, and my buddy and his wife are doing the same thing, the hot tub is splish splashing, everybody is taking periodic hits off the bottle, good times. Then, for whatever reason, my buddy is suddenly next to us with his wife, and now it's side by side action. A little weirder, but nothing to write home about. Then, the girls start kissing, a little bit. My wife is not all that into that, she has never done this sort of thing, but it's still hot. And, I want to join in, but I also don't want my buddy to freak out, so I push him in first. So, they are all kissing. Then, I am in the mix and he's watching. Then, people are ****ing again, and getting blown, and touching other peoples people, and the next thing I know, through the haze, my wife is on the other side of the hot tub ****ing my buddy, and I am ****ing his wife. This went on for like an hour, with no real results, and when I say no results I mean it's a 5 foor by 5 foot hot tub and I am hammered, it's been 4 hours and my muscles feel like jelly, I am not going to nut, it just ain't happening. I can stay hard all night but that's it. So, we pretty much just go at it until exhaustion, and then we go inside. My buddy and I have a quick conversation about "Are you o.k.? I'm o.k., I just want to make sure you are cool, dude", some bullshit like that, my wife passes out in the living room (she is easily more drunk than I have ever seen her), we go inside and watch some movie while I pound 5 bottles of water and piss twice to try and sober up for the 4 mile drive home. I get somewhere in the vicinity of sober enough to drive and we go home. The next day when we wake up we look at each other and basically sort of check in. "How do you feel about last night", etc. The only thing that I knew that morning was I wanted to make love to my wife, so I told her that, and that one feeling in that moment probably earned me more than any present or words ever have. We made love then, and over and over for days. Talked about everything, things we have never talked about, or at least not in such an open manner. Talked about the guilt angles- neither of us really felt guilty. Talked about the jealousy angles- I wasn't all the enthused about her ****ing my buddy, but I ****ed his wife, what can I do? Talked about what next?- basically we decided that we had let ourselves get into a rut, and maybe we needed to open up a bit and stop living in our space so much, go outside of our comfort zone. Not so much this type of thing- we decided we definitely did not want to start a whole new lifestyle, but if things happened, and we were comfortable, then go with it. Talked about the possibility that maybe she might enjoy another woman in the mix- she wasn't sure, but she did enjoy watching me have sex with someone else, and she can't really explain that except for maybe she liked the taboo angle. We talked about all our desires that we don't talk about, dark fantasys, nothing short of amazing. This whole thing brought us so much closer than I could ever believe possible from something like this. So, last night comes around... This time I am dead sober, and there is no hot tub, just our living room. The rest are relatively drunk, but not hammered, or even close to it. I am dead sober for a reason. I was very curious as to how I would react if alcohol was not involved. This time, what I wanted to do was pay attention to everything going on and really feel each emotion in the moment. Interestingly enough, part of me wanted to initiate a little something to appease my friend. He had the impression, and he was very correct, that we did not want to plan to make this happen again, and he felt kind of slighted. He's a good friend, I don't want him to feel that way, so I figured I would throw him a bone. (On a side note, my friend and his wife really dug it and cannot stop talking about it.) This time, it stops at just oral. It was interesting, the whole experience was fascinating. I was completely into my wife, and his wife was cool, but what I found was, I wasn't all that into her. I guess the best way to put it would be he was way more into my wife than I was into his, and where as I came twice (with my wife at the helm) he did not even once. My wife wouldn't take him all the way, and his wife couldn't take him all the way. He kept trying to get my wife more involved to help him along, but she was only going to go so far with him- with me was another story. we didn't really talk about it, it's just kind of how it played out. It was truly bizarre how different my mental reactions were sober- for one, I did NOT like watching my wife suck his ****. At all. Two, I kind of liked watching her mess around with his wife, but this time thoughts were creeping in "What if she likes his more than me", etc. None of this entered my mind drunk. Three, his wife is really physical and pinchy and bitey, and that shit hurts, man. Four, seriously, this guy is WAY more into my wife than I am into his. Honestly, I just drank it up, I wanted to feel every last emotion. The night comes to a close, my wife and I make some Pork chops and eggs and enjoy a quick meal. We talk about it a bit and she tells me how she likes all the attention but it's kind of overwhelming, but it's nice to feel that desirable. I tell her how much I hated watching what was going on, and it kind of surprised me, I did not think I would hate it that much, and this would be the last time, at least with them. She was perfectly okay with that, this is what she was thinking as well. She was getting he vibe that he was way more into her as well, and it made her a little uncomfortable. She did as me "What about Rebecca?" (Rebecca is a close friend who has always wanted to have some fun with us.) I told her "Oh, Rebecca is still on like Donkey Kong." The whole point of this story is to give the backstory to some of my thoughts recently. Like, it's fascinating to me what I thought a limit would be for me and it really wasn't. Like, you say to yourself "If my wife ever did X, I could never get that image out of my head, she would always be tainted" and I just don't believe that is the case anymore. I mean, in the grand scheme of things what do those two nights amount to? Basically, it was like game night, we could have just as easily been playing Trivial Pursuit. Our marriage has been solid for years, in terms of our commitment to staying together, and she is my best friend- has that changed in any way, just because she sucked a dudes **** in front of me? Not at all. I would have told you a month ago that there were rules, and you just don't break them, because those doors being opened could only end in misery, and who knows, maybe it will turn out that my wife is really actually into women, but that fear cannot dictate to me what I allow or don't allow in our relationship. At the end of the day, how in control am I really? I am in control of nothing, except for me and my reactions to things, and this was the best part- I actually am in control. I don't have to feel jealous, unless I want to. (And I am a jealous guy.) I don't have to be fearful, unless I want to. I don't have to let myself succumb to any emotion unless I choose, and that is, for lack of better words, super empowering. At the same time, underneath the rationality and the control is this stew of all kinds of insecurities and fears and weaknesses, and in my mind that's humanity. We are all a mess, the question is, what will you or I do with that mess? Let it rule you or make choices on your own. Anyway, maybe this story should have been told as a brag post but what Spademan said about the frailty of humans made me think of my current situation. To Spademan in particular, I have read some of your posts and I enjoy how your mind works, very interesting perspectives, although I do not always agree. I am curious to see your reaction to my lines of thinking. And, dude, are you married? Because my wife is good to go, bro, for real.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I thought you were a girl.Nice story though.

[SweetDee 0]

I thought you were a girl.Nice story though.

No, I just really like It's always Sunny in Philadelphia.

[Randy Reed 0]

I think it was Shaw who said, and I might be paraphrasing: "Cynicism is what good judgment is called by those who haven't got it." You may however be mistaking my misanthropy for the sort that cuts me off from everyone else socially. It isn't. I'm not some reclusive curmudgeon.I stay in the thick of things and play the game because despite it all people still have their qualities.

Ha, I think calling you cynic is letting you off nicely. It always annoys me when others say I am "mean" in thisforum for worrying about people that think their sandle is the creator of the universe and their silly "fatwahs".Make no bones about it, it is those people that would rather see an unbeliever dead or at least burning in everlasting hell, so excuse me if I come off a little annoyed. I mean kudos to vb, crow and others for always trying to keep the conversation rational and acting as if the religous right actually cared when it is clear they do not.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Make no bones about it, it is those people that would rather see an unbeliever dead or at least burning in everlasting hell, so excuse me if I come off a little annoyed.

Wait, what?

[Randy Reed 0]

Wait, what?

Yep, my New Years plans are ruined so I'm pissy, hahaha.

[Randy Reed 0]

This reminds me of a current situation I am going through. It started a few weeks ago, when, against my better judgment I accepted an invitation for my wife and I to hang out with some close friends in a hot tub after a nice dinner out with them. This offer had been extended multiple times, and I always shoot it down, because my spidey sense tells me that things may happen that I am just not into. This time, I was in an F it mood, let's have some drinks and enjoy the night. So, we did. Polished off one of those big bottles of Captain Morgan type shit you get from Sams Club, and a bottle of some type of Schnapps bullshit that pretends its some other shot, like a Washington Apple. It was nice, just b.s.ing and messing around, talking in rather juvenile ways about various scenarios that could happen, normal stuff for a hot tub with friends. You talk about things, but you don't do them. Until you do. It started with my wife and I getting hot and heavy together, first oral enjoyment and then ****ing. It was a little surreal, I hadn't had sex in front of another couple since high school when we couldn't afford two hotel rooms to party in. No big deal, though, nobody's getting hurt, and my buddy and his wife are doing the same thing, the hot tub is splish splashing, everybody is taking periodic hits off the bottle, good times. Then, for whatever reason, my buddy is suddenly next to us with his wife, and now it's side by side action. A little weirder, but nothing to write home about. Then, the girls start kissing, a little bit. My wife is not all that into that, she has never done this sort of thing, but it's still hot. And, I want to join in, but I also don't want my buddy to freak out, so I push him in first. So, they are all kissing. Then, I am in the mix and he's watching. Then, people are ****ing again, and getting blown, and touching other peoples people, and the next thing I know, through the haze, my wife is on the other side of the hot tub ****ing my buddy, and I am ****ing his wife. This went on for like an hour, with no real results, and when I say no results I mean it's a 5 foor by 5 foot hot tub and I am hammered, it's been 4 hours and my muscles feel like jelly, I am not going to nut, it just ain't happening. I can stay hard all night but that's it. So, we pretty much just go at it until exhaustion, and then we go inside. My buddy and I have a quick conversation about "Are you o.k.? I'm o.k., I just want to make sure you are cool, dude", some bullshit like that, my wife passes out in the living room (she is easily more drunk than I have ever seen her), we go inside and watch some movie while I pound 5 bottles of water and piss twice to try and sober up for the 4 mile drive home. I get somewhere in the vicinity of sober enough to drive and we go home. The next day when we wake up we look at each other and basically sort of check in. "How do you feel about last night", etc. The only thing that I knew that morning was I wanted to make love to my wife, so I told her that, and that one feeling in that moment probably earned me more than any present or words ever have. We made love then, and over and over for days. Talked about everything, things we have never talked about, or at least not in such an open manner. Talked about the guilt angles- neither of us really felt guilty. Talked about the jealousy angles- I wasn't all the enthused about her ****ing my buddy, but I ****ed his wife, what can I do? Talked about what next?- basically we decided that we had let ourselves get into a rut, and maybe we needed to open up a bit and stop living in our space so much, go outside of our comfort zone. Not so much this type of thing- we decided we definitely did not want to start a whole new lifestyle, but if things happened, and we were comfortable, then go with it. Talked about the possibility that maybe she might enjoy another woman in the mix- she wasn't sure, but she did enjoy watching me have sex with someone else, and she can't really explain that except for maybe she liked the taboo angle. We talked about all our desires that we don't talk about, dark fantasys, nothing short of amazing. This whole thing brought us so much closer than I could ever believe possible from something like this. So, last night comes around... This time I am dead sober, and there is no hot tub, just our living room. The rest are relatively drunk, but not hammered, or even close to it. I am dead sober for a reason. I was very curious as to how I would react if alcohol was not involved. This time, what I wanted to do was pay attention to everything going on and really feel each emotion in the moment. Interestingly enough, part of me wanted to initiate a little something to appease my friend. He had the impression, and he was very correct, that we did not want to plan to make this happen again, and he felt kind of slighted. He's a good friend, I don't want him to feel that way, so I figured I would throw him a bone. (On a side note, my friend and his wife really dug it and cannot stop talking about it.) This time, it stops at just oral. It was interesting, the whole experience was fascinating. I was completely into my wife, and his wife was cool, but what I found was, I wasn't all that into her. I guess the best way to put it would be he was way more into my wife than I was into his, and where as I came twice (with my wife at the helm) he did not even once. My wife wouldn't take him all the way, and his wife couldn't take him all the way. He kept trying to get my wife more involved to help him along, but she was only going to go so far with him- with me was another story. we didn't really talk about it, it's just kind of how it played out. It was truly bizarre how different my mental reactions were sober- for one, I did NOT like watching my wife suck his ****. At all. Two, I kind of liked watching her mess around with his wife, but this time thoughts were creeping in "What if she likes his more than me", etc. None of this entered my mind drunk. Three, his wife is really physical and pinchy and bitey, and that shit hurts, man. Four, seriously, this guy is WAY more into my wife than I am into his. Honestly, I just drank it up, I wanted to feel every last emotion. The night comes to a close, my wife and I make some Pork chops and eggs and enjoy a quick meal. We talk about it a bit and she tells me how she likes all the attention but it's kind of overwhelming, but it's nice to feel that desirable. I tell her how much I hated watching what was going on, and it kind of surprised me, I did not think I would hate it that much, and this would be the last time, at least with them. She was perfectly okay with that, this is what she was thinking as well. She was getting he vibe that he was way more into her as well, and it made her a little uncomfortable. She did as me "What about Rebecca?" (Rebecca is a close friend who has always wanted to have some fun with us.) I told her "Oh, Rebecca is still on like Donkey Kong." The whole point of this story is to give the backstory to some of my thoughts recently. Like, it's fascinating to me what I thought a limit would be for me and it really wasn't. Like, you say to yourself "If my wife ever did X, I could never get that image out of my head, she would always be tainted" and I just don't believe that is the case anymore. I mean, in the grand scheme of things what do those two nights amount to? Basically, it was like game night, we could have just as easily been playing Trivial Pursuit. Our marriage has been solid for years, in terms of our commitment to staying together, and she is my best friend- has that changed in any way, just because she sucked a dudes **** in front of me? Not at all. I would have told you a month ago that there were rules, and you just don't break them, because those doors being opened could only end in misery, and who knows, maybe it will turn out that my wife is really actually into women, but that fear cannot dictate to me what I allow or don't allow in our relationship. At the end of the day, how in control am I really? I am in control of nothing, except for me and my reactions to things, and this was the best part- I actually am in control. I don't have to feel jealous, unless I want to. (And I am a jealous guy.) I don't have to be fearful, unless I want to. I don't have to let myself succumb to any emotion unless I choose, and that is, for lack of better words, super empowering. At the same time, underneath the rationality and the control is this stew of all kinds of insecurities and fears and weaknesses, and in my mind that's humanity. We are all a mess, the question is, what will you or I do with that mess? Let it rule you or make choices on your own. Anyway, maybe this story should have been told as a brag post but what Spademan said about the frailty of humans made me think of my current situation. To Spademan in particular, I have read some of your posts and I enjoy how your mind works, very interesting perspectives, although I do not always agree. I am curious to see your reaction to my lines of thinking. And, dude, are you married? Because my wife is good to go, bro, for real.

Ahem, Go on....

[SweetDee 0]

Ahem, Go on....

I re-read it, except for the occasional typo that's pretty much all I have to say at this point. Oh, this is on the juvenile side but we did do a side by side measurement of the dongs and I crushed his, and when I say crushed I mean crushed. That's always satisfying for some reason, just once I would like to lose that fight. This ****ing thing is the bane/bain? of my existence. (This is probably not what you were looking for when you said Go on) Oh, and last night I could not find a way to gracefully end the whole thing so I started talking to my wife about some financial situation I was going to deal with today, and everything involved and how I had it handled. A total Waah-Waah-Waah moment but it worked, the other couple left a few minutes after and probably did what they usually do on the way home, which is park behind the car dealership and ****. Good people.

[Randy Reed 0]

I re-read it, except for the occasional typo that's pretty much all I have to say at this point. Oh, this is on the juvenile side but we did do a side by side measurement of the dongs and I crushed his, and when I say crushed I mean crushed. That's always satisfying for some reason, just once I would like to lose that fight. This ****ing thing is the bane/bain? of my existence. (This is probably not what you were looking for when you said Go on) Oh, and last night I could not find a way to gracefully end the whole thing so I started talking to my wife about some financial situation I was going to deal with today, and everything involved and how I had it handled. A total Waah-Waah-Waah moment but it worked, the other couple left a few minutes after and probably did what they usually do on the way home, which is park behind the car dealership and ****. Good people.

Okay then, pics?

[crowTrobot 2]

I re-read it, except for the occasional typo that's pretty much all I have to say at this point. Oh, this is on the juvenile side but we did do a side by side measurement of the dongs and I crushed his

i wondered if you might be omitting the guy on guy part from your story

[SweetDee 0]

i wondered if you might be omitting the guy on guy part from your story

If there had been I would have said it. No shame in my game.

[SweetDee 0]

Okay then, pics?

Didn't take any.

[Spademan 94]

Didn't take any.

Take some. If she is an 8 or above we may have some things to discuss.