Creation Question

[SBriand 4]

Well, since you insist I'll seque into where I was heading. Since we know evolution is a fact then I think it should be illegal to brainswash children in schools by teaching creationism. It can go in with the myths and fairy tale sections. The most important thing facing our children in the future is education and we should start by at least telling the truth to them about our planet. Maybe one day we one of them will grow up into a leader with enough balls and following to replace the idiots we now have.

See, why we both generally have the same "ideas" about life and religion, why are you so angry about it. You know that is my job here at FCP to be the angry guy.Listen, I believe in a God. But I really don't believe in religion if that makes any sense. In my opinion, right or wrong, I really could care less, my problem and not anyone else's, that many religious people are mistaken for how they believe we should worship God. I am right? Probably not. Are they? Probably not. No one knows. Many pretend to know, but they don't. My feeling is that if say, sorry I will use BG because he is the one here, BG feels happier and is leading a life that he believes is good and worthwhile and his belief system in God or whatever helps him do that, who cares? People ask him questions and he posts what he believes in his heart, right or wrong. Who are we to judge? We can disagree, we can debate it, we can offer up our views, but why judge? Same goes for him, why judge us if we do not feel the need to dedicate our lives to God? What is it to him? I know I am going somewhere with this...I don't believe it is wrong for children to hear both sides. Our plan, Liz and I, is to adopt and then when the child gets older he/she can decide if church is something that interests them. If they want to learn more then so be it. It should be their choice. I don't have a problem with them learning about God and about Darwin because for me personally, I believe they can both co-exist. I actually believe they do. Trouble is both sides seem unwilling to budge and realize that it might be possible. I just think many here argue for the sake of judging and trying to put the other side down and it is kind of amusing to watch because it happens in most topics. Now JUDGE ME!

[SBriand 4]

I don't get what you are saying. Do you have something against circle jerks?

This one time I got some in my eye and well...I just can't deal with them anymore.

[vbnautilus 48]

Well, since you insist I'll seque into where I was heading. Since we know evolution is a fact then I think it should be illegal to brainswash children in schools by teaching creationism. It can go in with the myths and fairy tale sections. The most important thing facing our children in the future is education and we should start by at least telling the truth to them about our planet. Maybe one day we one of them will grow up into a leader with enough balls and following to replace the idiots we now have.

They should be taught science in science class, that is for sure. But, that is pretty much how it is now, excluding a few temporary outbreaks of insanity in parts of the country that don't matter anyways. If parents want to teach them anything else on their own time, we should not interfere.

[Randy Reed 0]

See, why we both generally have the same "ideas" about life and religion, why are you so angry about it. You know that is my job here at FCP to be the angry guy.Listen, I believe in a God. But I really don't believe in religion if that makes any sense. In my opinion, right or wrong, I really could care less, my problem and not anyone else's, that many religious people are mistaken for how they believe we should worship God. I am right? Probably not. Are they? Probably not. No one knows. Many pretend to know, but they don't. My feeling is that if say, sorry I will use BG because he is the one here, BG feels happier and is leading a life that he believes is good and worthwhile and his belief system in God or whatever helps him do that, who cares? People ask him questions and he posts what he believes in his heart, right or wrong. Who are we to judge? We can disagree, we can debate it, we can offer up our views, but why judge? Same goes for him, why judge us if we do not feel the need to dedicate our lives to God? What is it to him? I know I am going somewhere with this...I don't believe it is wrong for children to hear both sides. Our plan, Liz and I, is to adopt and then when the child gets older he/she can decide if church is something that interests them. If they want to learn more then so be it. It should be their choice. I don't have a problem with them learning about God and about Darwin because for me personally, I believe they can both co-exist. I actually believe they do. Trouble is both sides seem unwilling to budge and realize that it might be possible. I just think many here argue for the sake of judging and trying to put the other side down and it is kind of amusing to watch because it happens in most topics. Now JUDGE ME!

Look, just because it makes you "feel" good doesn't make it right. Are you never going going to tell your future child that Santa Claus isn't real because you don't want to see him sad? If anything, I would want to eliminate religon to keep my son (or daughter) from going to a religous war when he gets older. Maybe one day we'll have a convo about why leading your life as an athiest is better.

[Randy Reed 0]

They should be taught science in science class, that is for sure. But, that is pretty much how it is now, excluding a few temporary outbreaks of insanity in parts of the country that don't matter anyways. If parents want to teach them anything else on their own time, we should not interfere.

Well, what they are teaching and not interfering clearly isn't doing the job since over 40% of Americans think people and animals were put on this planet as-is less than 10,000 years ago.

[SBriand 4]

Look, just because it makes you "feel" good doesn't make it right. Are you never going going to tell your future child that Santa Claus isn't real because you don't want to see him sad? If anything, I would want to eliminate religon to keep my son (or daughter) from going to a religous war when he gets older. Maybe one day we'll have a convo about why leading your life as an athiest is better.

Why doesn't it make it right? What harm does BG believing in God cause to you or him? I would say nothing. But if I am missing something please tell me. I don't get the Santa bit. I don't think it is possible to eliminate religion. I am pretty confident it can never happen. Either way, wars will always go on, it's man's nature. Sometimes religion plays a part and other times it doesn't. You won't have to convince me that living my life as an atheist is better because I think ultimately I would rather live my life that way if forced between having to be religious or not. But I have a hard time believing personally that there isn't some type of higher power at work that can easily co-exist with evolution. That makes me happy as I live life, thus it is right for me and me alone and doesn't hurt anyone else.I agree with vb, I don't think there is much issue with school. Religion and creationism wasn't taught when I went to school and there are still religious wars going on...

[Randy Reed 0]

Why doesn't it make it right? What harm does BG believing in God cause to you or him? I would say nothing. But if I am missing something please tell me. I don't get the Santa bit. I don't think it is possible to eliminate religion. I am pretty confident it can never happen. Either way, wars will always go on, it's man's nature. Sometimes religion plays a part and other times it doesn't. You won't have to convince me that living my life as an atheist is better because I think ultimately I would rather live my life that way if forced between having to be religious or not. But I have a hard time believing personally that there isn't some type of higher power at work that can easily co-exist with evolution. That makes me happy as I live life, thus it is right for me and me alone and doesn't hurt anyone else.I agree with vb, I don't think there is much issue with school. Religion and creationism wasn't taught when I went to school and there are still religious wars going on...

Okay, sorry I was at work and didn't have time to make myself clear. It was infered that I was being mean for saying that I thought it was wrong to tell BG or anyone else that they shouldn't believe in God. I made a similar comparison that it is mean to tell a kid there is no Santa Claus, yet we do it knowing that they are likely to be sad, shocked, embarressed etc., because ultimately we realize that it's better for people to know the truth and accept it.Okay, then you asked what harm it is to let BG go on believing what he wants, no harm no foul. Well, it's not just BG i'm worried about. The good ol' US is currently spending billions of dollars a year to fight wars propogated by religon. Let's just start in Afghanistan. While we are dropping million dollar bombs on the taliban we could be spending the money on schools and education in that country which they desparately need. You can build a school for $10,000. Teachers are 2 bucks a day, pencils are a penny. Unfortunately we can't because if we aren't dropping the bombs on the taliban they are spending millions building "madrassas" schools to train terrorists under the guise of the muslim religon. It's hard to defend the accusation that we are just spending money there in order to spread our own brand of religon. So when does the viscious circle end? Unfortunately moderate religons breed extemist religons. It only takes an honest look at the societies on this planet to realize how ****ed up it is. Wouldn't we be better off not having wars and spending the money on health and education? So what's the harm in letting BG individually believe what he wants, not much until he bands together with all the other religous zealots and votes terrible politicians into office to keep this endless insanity going.As for creationism not being taught in school I would tend to agree, but let one teacher stand up and say, "so class, what I am saying is that your parents and priests and ministers are not telling you the truth about how we came we came to be on this planet" and watch the hellstorm that ensues.An finally, I do believe that with education we can eventually end wars. That's another story but I have one other thing I'd like to add. How are we ever going to be able to breed humans (like we have with dogs and roses) into all kinds of cool Xmen type people if the Christians keep hanging around trying to stop us?

[Balloon guy 158]

I believe Crow just answered but I will as well. I am not so arrogant as to pretend there is a God in the first place, let alone what he was thinking. Their is no logical reason that we can come up with and you admit you don't have a clue what he was thinking so why are doing all the guessing? If you don't know what he was thinking why claim that he has a higher moral purpose for humankind?

I guess I am at a loss as to how it is arrogant to believe in a God, unless you mean believing that God cares directly about me. but I believe that God cares equally for all people, so saying I am loved by God is like bragging to an American that I live in a free country.You have clearly mistaken my saying I don't know what motivations God had for doing things to mean I don't know anything about God. I know tons of stuff about God, a whole book that He wrote about Himself worth of stuff.And that Book clearly spells out the place we hold in God's heart. John 3:16 "For God so loved us that He sent His only begotten Son, so that who ever believes in Him will have eternal life"So for me to say that I think God loves us but I don't know why isn't the same thing as saying I don't know whether or not God loves us.You have made an arbitrary condition for God's existence to be somehow based on what we know about God. This places the burden on you to show why your conditions must be met in order to create the certainty that God does or doesn't exist.In the Bible in Matthew it says that when we die, we go to heaven "...a place made for us". So it clearly says that heaven will be made specifically human-centrist.If it's being done by God in the future, why is it impossible to think it was done for us in the past? Would it really matter if the entire universe was made for us and only us? Although I remember seeing a cool skit years ago at church where a space alien came to earth, to preach to us about Jesus. So we all started telling this alien that Jesus had already come to this planet. The alien started saying that we must have had a great celebration to welcome Him. We told him "No, we crucified Him". So even some Christians entertain the option for other life forms in the universe. In fact one pastor I had at a Calvary Chapel used to preach from the podium that he believed God created many worlds with life, because He's a creative God. It was his personal belief. This pastor married me so I think the world of him but I suspect he is wrong, the entire universe was probably created for me in fact...of this I am mildly certain.

[Balloon guy 158]

Okay, sorry I was at work and didn't have time to make myself clear. It was infered that I was being mean for saying that I thought it was wrong to tell BG or anyone else that they shouldn't believe in God. I made a similar comparison that it is mean to tell a kid there is no Santa Claus, yet we do it knowing that they are likely to be sad, shocked, embarressed etc., because ultimately we realize that it's better for people to know the truth and accept it.Okay, then you asked what harm it is to let BG go on believing what he wants, no harm no foul. Well, it's not just BG i'm worried about. The good ol' US is currently spending billions of dollars a year to fight wars propogated by religon. Let's just start in Afghanistan. While we are dropping million dollar bombs on the taliban we could be spending the money on schools and education in that country which they desparately need. You can build a school for $10,000. Teachers are 2 bucks a day, pencils are a penny. Unfortunately we can't because if we aren't dropping the bombs on the taliban they are spending millions building "madrassas" schools to train terrorists under the guise of the muslim religon. It's hard to defend the accusation that we are just spending money there in order to spread our own brand of religon. So when does the viscious circle end? Unfortunately moderate religons breed extemist religons. It only takes an honest look at the societies on this planet to realize how ****ed up it is. Wouldn't we be better off not having wars and spending the money on health and education? So what's the harm in letting BG individually believe what he wants, not much until he bands together with all the other religous zealots and votes terrible politicians into office to keep this endless insanity going.

Curios how you would react if I said the following:We need to stop teaching evolutionist atheism in schools. the idea that our lives have no meanings and there are no consequences for our actions has brought about Columbine and other such atrocities, and the last hundred years of history has shown us two plagues of thought that have done more damage to mankind than any other school of thought in the history of the world. I'm talking of course about the Nazi's foundational belief in evolution, superior and inferior races and eugenics. And of course the other one is the god-less communism that preaches Darwinian evolution in school, and abolished all churches.Would you feel I was telling the truth?

As for creationism not being taught in school I would tend to agree, but let one teacher stand up and say, "so class, what I am saying is that your parents and priests and ministers are not telling you the truth about how we came we came to be on this planet" and watch the hellstorm that ensues.An finally, I do believe that with education we can eventually end wars. That's another story but I have one other thing I'd like to add. How are we ever going to be able to breed humans (like we have with dogs and roses) into all kinds of cool Xmen type people if the Christians keep hanging around trying to stop us?

Well, I have it on good Authority that we will all be leaving one day..so you guys have that to look forward too.

[Balloon guy 158]

you were avoiding a question. obviously the question being asked was not why does god seem not to care, it was why should anyone think a caring god exists in the first place.statements like "we can't know the mind of god" are just excuses for belief used by every religion and cult. they are in no way a reason for belief.

You are wrong here, I was asked a question, I answered it with the traditional answer the church has had for this for eons, "We don't presume to speak for God"You have pretended that somehow this phrase is deficient, for no other reason than you can't stand that it's true.So you are trying to frame the argument, and your bias makes you unable to understand why this is wrong.

[vbnautilus 48]

Well, what they are teaching and not interfering clearly isn't doing the job since over 40% of Americans think people and animals were put on this planet as-is less than 10,000 years ago.

Yep, I agree with you 100% on the problem. I just think we also have to avoid legislating what people can teach or learn, as that really can't turn out well. It's totally legitimate to challenge religious beliefs. This is one of the points I credit Sam Harris for making really well; we need to get beyond the point where it is a faux pas to criticize religion. There are huge consequences to what people believe.

[Mills 0]

Curios how you would react if I said the following:We need to stop teaching evolutionist atheism in schools. the idea that our lives have no meanings and there are no consequences for our actions has brought about Columbine and other such atrocities, and the last hundred years of history has shown us two plagues of thought that have done more damage to mankind than any other school of thought in the history of the world. I'm talking of course about the Nazi's foundational belief in evolution, superior and inferior races and eugenics. And of course the other one is the god-less communism that preaches Darwinian evolution in school, and abolished all churches.Would you feel I was telling the truth?

Rediculous false analogies are your Forte...

[brvheart 1,752]

Rediculous false analogies are your Forte...

Horrendis speeling might be yourz.

[Mills 0]

Horrendis speeling might be yourz.

perhaps, but I fail to see how that invalidates anything ... keep going with the ad hominem attacks though, they are probably your only shot.

[Randy Reed 0]

I guess I am at a loss as to how it is arrogant to believe in a God, unless you mean believing that God cares directly about me. but I believe that God cares equally for all people, so saying I am loved by God is like bragging to an American that I live in a free country.You have clearly mistaken my saying I don't know what motivations God had for doing things to mean I don't know anything about God. I know tons of stuff about God, a whole book that He wrote about Himself worth of stuff.And that Book clearly spells out the place we hold in God's heart. John 3:16 "For God so loved us that He sent His only begotten Son, so that who ever believes in Him will have eternal life"So for me to say that I think God loves us but I don't know why isn't the same thing as saying I don't know whether or not God loves us.You have made an arbitrary condition for God's existence to be somehow based on what we know about God. This places the burden on you to show why your conditions must be met in order to create the certainty that God does or doesn't exist.In the Bible in Matthew it says that when we die, we go to heaven "...a place made for us". So it clearly says that heaven will be made specifically human-centrist.If it's being done by God in the future, why is it impossible to think it was done for us in the past? Would it really matter if the entire universe was made for us and only us? Although I remember seeing a cool skit years ago at church where a space alien came to earth, to preach to us about Jesus. So we all started telling this alien that Jesus had already come to this planet. The alien started saying that we must have had a great celebration to welcome Him. We told him "No, we crucified Him". So even some Christians entertain the option for other life forms in the universe. In fact one pastor I had at a Calvary Chapel used to preach from the podium that he believed God created many worlds with life, because He's a creative God. It was his personal belief. This pastor married me so I think the world of him but I suspect he is wrong, the entire universe was probably created for me in fact...of this I am mildly certain.

OH Jebus, how so many people are fooled by a particular myth from some Bronze Age desert tribemen is, to say the least, astonishing. You actually just said that, depending on the church, they might or might not believe in aliens and that no one can really agree on what to be believe since you really don't know. He was a "creative God?" Well, I would hope so! My lord, how can you throw about little quips like that and maintain any modecum of a straight face?

[Randy Reed 0]

Curios how you would react if I said the following:We need to stop teaching evolutionist atheism in schools. the idea that our lives have no meanings and there are no consequences for our actions has brought about Columbine and other such atrocities, and the last hundred years of history has shown us two plagues of thought that have done more damage to mankind than any other school of thought in the history of the world. I'm talking of course about the Nazi's foundational belief in evolution, superior and inferior races and eugenics. And of course the other one is the god-less communism that preaches Darwinian evolution in school, and abolished all churches.Would you feel I was telling the truth?Well, I have it on good Authority that we will all be leaving one day..so you guys have that to look forward too.

No since you are talking about a political system vs a religous one. Because that political system didn't work and has nothing to do with what I am talking about. But yet you do bring up a point about superior and inferior races. Any Christian I know believes that they are better than Muslims, Hindu, Taoist, etc., and given the chance to wave to their flag have no problem murdering them and never had. Would you feel I was telling the truth?And then this---------Well, I have it on good Authority that we will all be leaving one day..so you guys have that to look forward too.I don't look forward to it! I don't want to get old and decrepid! I wish science would advance so that I could live to play baseball with my great, great, great, great grandchildren! But I will take what I can get and daily am constantly reminded just how fucking lucky I am to have even been here in the first place! I love the fact the I was lucky enough to have children, (who are lucky enough) to be here on this amazing and interesting planet. Some mornings when I am running and the sun is coming up, it's so breathtakingly beautiful I have to just stop and stare in awe and wonder and be thankful to be alive.

[Randy Reed 0]

Yep, I agree with you 100% on the problem. I just think we also have to avoid legislating what people can teach or learn, as that really can't turn out well. It's totally legitimate to challenge religious beliefs. This is one of the points I credit Sam Harris for making really well; we need to get beyond the point where it is a faux pas to criticize religion. There are huge consequences to what people believe.

Sorry, but ask any 5th grade teacher and they will tell you they have room what so ever to vary from the text despite how horrendous most of it is. We do mandate math and reading and history already. I just think in biology that evolution should be given a re-vamp to make it more clear what it is given alot of the advances over the years.I also think we should add a morality class.Hey, I realize that I am not changing BG's mind, my parents or any of this generation, it's the future I'm worried about. It's like history repeating itself endlessly. It's like BG's alien coming back 2000 years later, looking around and then saying, "Wow, you really didn't get it did you!?"

[Spademan 94]

OH Jebus, how so many people are fooled by a particular myth from some Bronze Age desert tribemen is, to say the least, astonishing.

Well, it isn't just one myth.Nor is it all that astonishing when you take a step back and look at we higher-functioning primates as a whole."Higher-functioning" is extremely relative. When you actually listen to what people say and read what they write the frailty and fallibility of our kind is apparent.Human beings are afraid and alone, and conscious self-awareness is a difficult burden when not founded on solid reasonable faculties. We are born impressionable and helpless and are wont to "believe" any number of things that shield our fearful minds from the terrible thought of death or insignificance. Hitchens put it well when he said that we "remain a stupid, poorly evolved mammalian species... our problem is this: our pre-frontal lobes are too small, and our adrenalin glands are too big, and our thumb/finger opposition isn't all that it might be, and we're afraid of the dark and we're afraid to die and we believe in the truths of Holy books that are so stupid and so fabricated that a child can -- and all children do, as you can tell by their questions -- actually see through them."Humanity is the crowd at Walmart. And even the minority few who are educated well are tainted by all of their previous stupidity and socially ingrained ignorance and superstitions. A psychology doctorate here believing in alien abduction and astral travel, a physicists there thinking their particular sky elf made this law or that, a charismatic and intelligent leader of some peoples setting up an ego-driven ideology and propping himself up as some sort of god to the exclusion of all others in a violent and unreasonable push to power...Humans are animals, and it is not astonishing at all when we understand that we are such.

[Randy Reed 0]

Well, it isn't just one myth.Nor is it all that astonishing when you take a step back and look at we higher-functioning primates as a whole."Higher-functioning" is extremely relative. When you actually listen to what people say and read what they write the frailty and fallibility of our kind is apparent.Human beings are afraid and alone, and conscious self-awareness is a difficult burden when not founded on solid reasonable faculties. We are born impressionable and helpless and are wont to "believe" any number of things that shield our fearful minds from the terrible thought of death or insignificance. Hitchens put it well when he said that we "remain a stupid, poorly evolved mammalian species... our problem is this: our pre-frontal lobes are too small, and our adrenalin glands are too big, and our thumb/finger opposition isn't all that it might be, and we're afraid of the dark and we're afraid to die and we believe in the truths of Holy books that are so stupid and so fabricated that a child can -- and all children do, as you can tell by their questions -- actually see through them."Humanity is the crowd at Walmart. And even the minority few who are educated well are tainted by all of their previous stupidity and socially ingrained ignorance and superstitions. A psychology doctorate here believing in alien abduction and astral travel, a physicists there thinking there particular sky elf made this law or that, a charismatic and intelligent leader of some peoples setting up an ego-driven ideology and propping himself up as some sort of god to the exclusion of all others in a violent and unreasonable push to power...Humans are animals, and it is not astonishing at all when we understand that we are such.

Well I do think that is on the cynical side. Despite our shortcomings we are pretty amazing all in all. I also feel that when you realize that we are what we are then most will have alot more compassion for the "humanity" crowd at Walmart. In any case realizing that we might just be the fly heading towards the windshield is better than ending up burning in everlasting hell. And back to vb's statement "we need to get beyond the point where it is a faux pas to criticize religion. There are huge consequences to what people believe." It is still very taboo to state that you are an athiest and could have dire consequences regarding your job, relationships etc. It might be the most "racist" and missunderstood thing left facing the American public despite the fact that it is the more rational, logical statement that one could make. People associate all kinds of weird things with it to this day like, "communist, nazi, ungodly, heathen, etc." which couldn't be further from the truth. Again, we can't change the status quo's minds, but we can start with the next generation. I mean, how many lost generations, wastelands and wars are we willing to witness before we change?I like to imagine (Lennon reference not intended) an America that was admired for our leadership and charity without pushing the Christian agenda.Oh and to answer my original question in this thread regarding the "purpose" of the universe. Why does there have to be one? Why do the religious think that being created as the playthings of a superbeing is more meaningful than being a product of natural processes?

[brvheart 1,752]

Well, it isn't just one myth.Nor is it all that astonishing when you take a step back and look at we higher-functioning primates as a whole."Higher-functioning" is extremely relative. When you actually listen to what people say and read what they write the frailty and fallibility of our kind is apparent.Human beings are afraid and alone, and conscious self-awareness is a difficult burden when not founded on solid reasonable faculties. We are born impressionable and helpless and are wont to "believe" any number of things that shield our fearful minds from the terrible thought of death or insignificance. Hitchens put it well when he said that we "remain a stupid, poorly evolved mammalian species... our problem is this: our pre-frontal lobes are too small, and our adrenalin glands are too big, and our thumb/finger opposition isn't all that it might be, and we're afraid of the dark and we're afraid to die and we believe in the truths of Holy books that are so stupid and so fabricated that a child can -- and all children do, as you can tell by their questions -- actually see through them."Humanity is the crowd at Walmart. And even the minority few who are educated well are tainted by all of their previous stupidity and socially ingrained ignorance and superstitions. A psychology doctorate here believing in alien abduction and astral travel, a physicists there thinking there particular sky elf made this law or that, a charismatic and intelligent leader of some peoples setting up an ego-driven ideology and propping himself up as some sort of god to the exclusion of all others in a violent and unreasonable push to power...Humans are animals, and it is not astonishing at all when we understand that we are such.

I'm very curious as to hear what your opinions are on the C.S. Lewis book, The Problem of Pain. Have you read it? Can you please and let me know?

[Randy Reed 0]

Humans are animals, and it is not astonishing at all when we understand that we are such.

It took me awhile to find this quote but I think it offers a less pessimistic view than yours.We are beings that are capable of eliciting meaning for our own lives, and the world around us, without outside interference. Erecting an imaginary source of outside interference is nothing more than a gargantuan Little Orphan Annie complex, a wish to remain a child with a nice Daddy figure to run the world around us so that we don't have to get off our arses and expend the effort. This is such an utterly lame stance to adopt. It's indolent, naive, simplistic and dumb. Surely there is far more majesty in knowing that the universe, quixotic and capricious though it may seem to be at first sight, is comprehensible by diligent intellectual human effort, and that exercising that effort not only leads to a breathtaking vista of understanding that adds to the majesty, but gives us the power to work toward a better destiny for us all in a manner that produces real, substantive results?

[speedz99 145]

Are you guys really arguing about whether or not it makes sense that, if there is a god, he made the universe for us? I mean, you're really arguing against an idea that monumentally arrogant and idiotic? This is even more pointless than usual.

So you agree with Copernicus then?

His work was incredibly important as a base for other scientists to build on. It doesn't matter if he was correct about everything...as always, scientists use previous errors to come to the correct final conclusions, whereas religious nuts will fight to the death even when they are proven incorrect about any given minute detail of their beliefs. If you lived in his era you would have been railing against his theories as bad, and evil, science. Which is fine. In a few hundred years there will be other mindless religious followers that accept evolution as fact (like you now accept the sun, not the earth, being the center of our solar system), but they'll have found a new area of science to disbelieve because of their closed-minded following of an old book that someone told them was written by people who knew god. And that's the way you want it, so more power to you.

[Randy Reed 0]

Are you guys really arguing about whether or not it makes sense that, if there is a god, he made the universe for us? I mean, you're really arguing against an idea that monumentally arrogant and idiotic? This is even more pointless than usual.

Sorry, it's a slow week and I'm bored. I mean even TV is all repeats.

[Balloon guy 158]

His work was incredibly important as a base for other scientists to build on. It doesn't matter if he was correct about everything...as always, scientists use previous errors to come to the correct final conclusions, whereas religious nuts will fight to the death even when they are proven incorrect about any given minute detail of their beliefs. If you lived in his era you would have been railing against his theories as bad, and evil, science. Which is fine. In a few hundred years there will be other mindless religious followers that accept evolution as fact (like you now accept the sun, not the earth, being the center of our solar system), but they'll have found a new area of science to disbelieve because of their closed-minded following of an old book that someone told them was written by people who knew god. And that's the way you want it, so more power to you.

I was talking about the other Copernicus..but I can see why you got the two mixed up.What exactly do Christians nuts want to fight to the death over even though they were proven wrong? far as history shows, the scientist have been the ones propagating beliefs that the church has agreed with like flat earth, sun rotating around earth. Copernicus, the Christian and other Christian scientist challenged the secular science and proved them wrong...our track record is better than yours.

[crowTrobot 2]

Are you guys really arguing about whether or not it makes sense that, if there is a god, he made the universe for us? I mean, you're really arguing against an idea that monumentally arrogant and idiotic? This is even more pointless than usual.

given that millions of people believe exactly that it's not pointless to dispute it.