slink 1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Full Tilt Poker Game #16389347521: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (121206175), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:15:30 ET - 2009/11/29Seat 1: apoelistas88 (1,485)Seat 2: MisterSoul 1974 (1,425)Seat 3: molaboy (1,980)Seat 4: rustnut (2,760)Seat 5: taiwanwu (1,335)Seat 7: slinkbug01 (1,455)Seat 8: donkeybuddha (1,515)Seat 9: miaaurora (1,545)donkeybuddha posts the small blind of 15miaaurora posts the big blind of 30The button is in seat #7*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to slinkbug01 [Q A ]apoelistas88 calls 30MisterSoul 1974 foldsmolaboy foldsrustnut raises to 90taiwanwu calls 90slinkbug01 calls 90donkeybuddha calls 75miaaurora foldsapoelistas88 calls 60($480)*** FLOP *** [2 4 T ]donkeybuddha checksapoelistas88 checksrustnut checkstaiwanwu checksslinkbug01 checks($480)*** TURN *** [2 4 T ] [T ]donkeybuddha checksapoelistas88 checksrustnut checkstaiwanwu checksslinkbug01 bets 220donkeybuddha foldsapoelistas88 calls 220rustnut foldstaiwanwu folds($920)*** RIVER *** [2 4 T ] [T ] [5 ]What's my move here? Link to post Share on other sites
SGFULTON83 0 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Check/Fold Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 3bet pre.As played to the river, I agree with c/f. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 The flat is fine...c/f river Link to post Share on other sites
MaxStPolish 4 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Fold. It's the beginning of a 5 buck SnG so you will get looked up with a very wide range here. Five dollar, five dollar, five dollar hero callllllllllllllls. They happen with ease at the beginning of these. Nothing worse ever calls you, and you could be pleasantly surprised to see a better kicker as this guy bricked a FD/floating the turn with worse overs like AJ/KJ, etc. etc. Show it down.Oh, this infers that he's checking to you on the river. If he fires out a bet obv the simple and right answer is fold with no other info present. Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yeah, I agree with trueace, the flat is fine in position. There's no need to go nuts with AQ early in a stt. I wouldn't take a stab at the turn tbh when it's still 5 way, but as others have said c/f. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sure the flat is fine, but at these low levels people open from EP with a very wide range. Since we can do this as a squeeze I think 3betting pre is very profitable. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 raise pre, dont stab that turn so multiway, fold river/turn/ whenever we see a bet! What do we beat! Air,...... Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Sure the flat is fine, but at these low levels people open from EP with a very wide range. Since we can do this as a squeeze I think 3betting pre is very profitable.It was a raise over a limper, albeit a small one, then 2 flats after that. If we 3bet here, there's a good chance all of the chips get in the middle where we are very unlikely to ever be ahead (Prob close to 40/60 against AQ+, 55+). I just think it's unnecessary at this point in the game and it's probably wiser to keep the pot smaller here. I wouldn't really advocate taking big risks early in an STT with AQ when this many people have shown interest. We have position, we should use it. It's less variance. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 It was a raise over a limper, albeit a small one, then 2 flats after that. If we 3bet here, there's a good chance all of the chips get in the middle where we are very unlikely to ever be ahead (Prob close to 40/60 against AQ+, 55+). I just think it's unnecessary at this point in the game and it's probably wiser to keep the pot smaller here. I wouldn't really advocate taking big risks early in an STT with AQ when this many people have shown interest. We have position, we should use it. It's less variance.I get your point, but who said anything about getting all the chips in the middle? I certainly meant or implied that this would be a 3bet/fold. In low-level SNGs people open EP with a very wide range including mid PPs and KJ type hands, and added to the fact that this is a squeeze, we have a lot of FE here. If we get flatted in either spot, we just use our position accordingly post. If we get 4bet, we are of course folding. Link to post Share on other sites
I_fold08 1 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 what trueace said Link to post Share on other sites
slink 1 Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 He was slowplaying KK.I bet 440 on the river and he called. I lose.And when I looked back on the hand I thought, "yeah this is how I would have slowplayed Kings, though I would have raised my bet at the river.I did end up winning this tourney though.Thanks for the replies, I almost never think that someone is slowplaying a monster. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Awful, awful slowplay by him.However, if you had 3bet/folded pre, you probably would've lost fewer chips. Congrats on the win though. Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Awful, awful slowplay by him.However, if you had 3bet/folded pre, you probably would've lost fewer chips. Congrats on the win though.lol Link to post Share on other sites
HighwayStar 8 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 I'm not the greatest SnG player in the world but I'm 3 bet folding pre pretty much never at this point. I'd rather 3 bet/call. I think I'd rather just shove pre as opposed to any 3 bet option tbh. I'm always just flatting here though.I really dislike betting the turn. Even if it has checked to you twice you're 5 way and pot isn't big enough to try to take down here and you're pretty much never going to be good and never going to get 4 folds.Don't bet river, you pretty much never get folds out of pairs on this board. Check it and hope you're miraculously good against something which checks back. Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 You're 3bet shoving for 1500 when there's 255 in the pot? Or you want to 3bet to 360 and call a shove to 1500? Those both seem awful to me. I understand if I'm alone in this 3bet/fold option, it's just a fine play in my experience from low-level SNGs. Its true there's nothing wrong with a flat. Link to post Share on other sites
Tehtoe 3 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 whoaaaaaa, 3bet/folding has to be the worst option pre. Admittedly I'm not an SNG guru but I'm pretty sure that has to be pretty bad and it's not even really close. flat>>>3bet/call>>>>>>>>>>>>3bet/fold Link to post Share on other sites
litlebullet 0 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 without an extreme read I'd never 3-bet pre. The turn bet is bad too. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 swoly, your usually very nitty in situations, I really don't know how you can say risking chips with a 3bet here w/o antes or anything is a profitable move? Like, what good can come out of 3betting besides getting folds? Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I'm typically nitty, yes, but I do squeeze fairly light. This is a picture perfect situation to squeeze in early on in a low-level SNG, IMO. Tehtoe your disconnect might come from the fact that at FR cash, the UTG open is like 88+, AK only, so of course we are in awful shape versus that range. In a $5 SNG, the EP's opening range is often more like 55+, KTs+, KJo+, A9s+, ATo+, QJs. The cold call in between makes this squeeze very good for value here IMO. and TrueAce, yes, a lot of that is coming from getting folds. I think we pick this pot up with a squeeze > 50% of the time if my opening ranges are correct. If we're flatted by UTG, is like almost always a PP from 77-JJ. I don't think KK+ or AK ever flats oop at this level, and QQ is unlikely from card removal. In that situation we just use our position post accordingly. I just like this option better than flatting and folding the 2/3 of the time we whiff the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Tehtoe 3 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I'm typically nitty, yes, but I do squeeze fairly light. This is a picture perfect situation to squeeze in early on in a low-level SNG, IMO. Tehtoe your disconnect might come from the fact that at FR cash, the UTG open is like 88+, AK only, so of course we are in awful shape versus that range. In a $5 SNG, the EP's opening range is often more like 55+, KTs+, KJo+, A9s+, ATo+, QJs. The cold call in between makes this squeeze very good for value here IMO. and TrueAce, yes, a lot of that is coming from getting folds. I think we pick this pot up with a squeeze > 50% of the time if my opening ranges are correct. If we're flatted by UTG, is like almost always a PP from 77-JJ. I don't think KK+ or AK ever flats oop at this level, and QQ is unlikely from card removal. In that situation we just use our position post accordingly. I just like this option better than flatting and folding the 2/3 of the time we whiff the flop.Wait what, I don't play cash? Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Wait what, I don't play cash?My mistake. I assumed you meant that when you said you weren't an SNG wiz... and I forgot you were a MTT guy. Feel free to disregard. Link to post Share on other sites
outsider13 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 The problem with 3bet fold is you turn your decent preflop hand into a total bluff. You may as well do this with any 2 cards if you think its profitable. If you 3bet here, you have to call a potential shove.As I said earlier, going crazy and making "bluffs" early in a sng is totally not what you should be doing. Play monster hands early and super tight, shove lighter later on. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 The problem with 3bet fold is you turn your decent preflop hand into a total bluff. You may as well do this with any 2 cards if you think its profitable. If you 3bet here, you have to call a potential shove.As I said earlier, going crazy and making "bluffs" early in a sng is totally not what you should be doing. Play monster hands early and super tight, shove lighter later on.This is quoted for mother f*ckin' truth motha f*cka! Link to post Share on other sites
SGFULTON83 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 The problem with 3bet fold is you turn your decent preflop hand into a total bluff. You may as well do this with any 2 cards if you think its profitable. If you 3bet here, you have to call a potential shove.As I said earlier, going crazy and making "bluffs" early in a sng is totally not what you should be doing. Play monster hands early and super tight, shove lighter later on.If everyone else is zigging, shouldn't we be zagging? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now