So I Saw This Durrrr Guy On Tv

[Lucoo_ 0]

Soooo i have an interesting hand right here. Villian and i are both multitabling and are at like 6-7 tables together. I've been playing pretty LAGgy and as a result villian and i have been 3 betting eachother a lot. He seems a bit loose for a multitabling reg but nothing out of the ordinary. We have not yet 4 bet eachother up untill this hand. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flopHero (MP3) ($42.40)CO ($80.55)Button ($64.85)SB ($51.65)BB ($47.45)UTG ($25)UTG+1 ($25.80)MP1 ($28.05)MP2 ($28.05)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, 104 folds, Hero bets $1, 1 fold, Button raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $8, Button calls $5Flop: ($16.35) 6, Q, 4(2 players)Hero checks, Button checksTurn: ($16.35) J(2 players)Hero checks, Button checksRiver: ($16.35) 3(2 players)Hero wants to bluff, So after i 4 bet and get called im basically done with the hand if villian shows any aggression. When he checks the flop and turn i figure he must have AK since we are both fairly deepstacked and JJ-QQ should have bet the turn cuz if he wants to get stacks in he has to do it in 2 streets. Maybe KK checks twice but he has to have bet AA on the flop or turn right ??So do i bluff river and if yes, how much ??

[SuperJon 175]

How have you been sizing your value bets? You might want to go with that.

[SwolyswoND 1]

The only problem is, what can you rep by betting river? I think you should have bet turn. Even if you held 99-TT you wouldn't bet the river, so villain can't give you credit for that if he holds AK. If you bet turn you can still rep JJ+.

[Royal_Tour 0]

you want to bluff the river? the only way you can successfully do it and win the hand is if he has total rags, or he puts you on one hand (QQ)also, why did you 4bet and then check 2 streets? I would have Cbet that flop 1000% of the time. When I become active/aggressive pf I like to keep it consistent everytime that way Its impossible for villains to know if i'm Cbetting with the goods, or with Air.another quick mention.. after reading your title about Durrr on TV.. (not saying the OP) but players really shouldnt try and mimic certain tactics you see durrr attempt on HSP, his opponents study his game closely, so he needs to change gears multiple times throughout a session. Its to his benefit sometimes to play very aggro, then all the sudden check two streets, then fire river etc...Online at your stakes you're better off to keep your bet sizing and tactics consistant regardless of your hand, it keeps your opponents guessing, and doesnt force you into weird spots (like this one, whether you should bet river or not)

[Lucoo_ 0]

The only problem is, what can you rep by betting river? I think you should have bet turn. Even if you held 99-TT you wouldn't bet the river, so villain can't give you credit for that if he holds AK. If you bet turn you can still rep JJ+.

I pretty much don't care what i can rep in this spot because im pretty sure villian isnt calling me with AK or 99-TT or something, providing i bet at least like 8 or something. A side from that, i don't think im happy to be betting KK on the flop or turn when his range for calling a 4 bet includes QQ-AA and AK, maybe AQ and probably isnt a whole lot wider. So it could be a value bet with KK to him.

[Lucoo_ 0]

you want to bluff the river? the only way you can successfully do it and win the hand is if he has total rags, or he puts you on one hand (QQ)

I like i mentioned in the OP i don't think villian has QQ-JJ or AA, and probably he doesnt have KK also. It seems like he has given up on the hand too by checking twice.

also, why did you 4bet and then check 2 streets? I would have Cbet that flop 1000% of the time. When I become active/aggressive pf I like to keep it consistent everytime that way Its impossible for villains to know if i'm Cbetting with the goods, or with Air.

To be honest, i don't 4 bet bluff like... ever. I was just convinced he was 3 betting me light so i tried to take it down preflop and when he called my 4 bet i didnt think he would be folding this flop.

another quick mention.. after reading your title about Durrr on TV.. (not saying the OP) but players really shouldnt try and mimic certain tactics you see durrr attempt on HSP, his opponents study his game closely, so he needs to change gears multiple times throughout a session. Its to his benefit sometimes to play very aggro, then all the sudden check two streets, then fire river etc...

Don't worry i dont think im durrrr i just found it funny to call this topic that because it's kind of a durrr move, of which i made like 2 in the last 50K hands. Also i never try to pull this off against a random player, but this guy was a multitabling at least 8 tables and we were 3 betting eachother a lot so it seemed like a good spot to 4 bet bluff.

[rrumsey 0]

i check down river, we may have the best hand here

[krup24 0]

I pretty much don't care what i can rep in this spot because im pretty sure villian isnt calling me with AK or 99-TT or something, providing i bet at least like 8 or something.

i barely blink and call you with AK or almost any pp. and 4 betting and checking the flop and turn is really really really bad

[Royal_Tour 0]

To be honest, i don't 4 bet bluff like... ever. I was just convinced he was 3 betting me light so i tried to take it down preflop and when he called my 4 bet i didnt think he would be folding this flop.

IMO - a lot of players who 3bet pf light, will flat a 4bet light just because the money already in the pot, and the implied odds.which is why i advocate a Cbet. He misses this flop a lot with his light 3bet range.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I like i mentioned in the OP i don't think villian has QQ-JJ or AA, and probably he doesnt have KK also. It seems like he has given up on the hand too by checking twice.

Yea, i agree with this.. I mentioned, If he has Rags, or puts you on a monster, you can scoop this pot.But it isnt very convincing. which is why i think a cbet flop would scoop this hand

[Shark527 0]

i check down river, we may have the best hand here

Because the villian calls the 4bet with A9 or KT OOP? I think betting flop or turn is the way to win this hand.I fully agree that a bet must be made before the river.

[mtdesmoines 2]

So do i bluff river .....

worst idea ever

[DonkSlayer 1]

You both should've bet the turn.

[SwolyswoND 1]

I pretty much don't care what i can rep in this spot because im pretty sure villian isnt calling me with AK or 99-TT or something, providing i bet at least like 8 or something. A side from that, i don't think im happy to be betting KK on the flop or turn when his range for calling a 4 bet includes QQ-AA and AK, maybe AQ and probably isnt a whole lot wider. So it could be a value bet with KK to him.

You should care what you rep, because a thinking player will call you with any pair on the river the way you played this. No one will put you on JJ-AA, because although checking the flop isn't horrible there (although it's best just to cbet), all those hands surely would bet the turn.No one will put you on 99-TT, because those hands wouldn't bet the river.So basically villain will be extremely aware that you don't have a pair, and will call you with any PP, AJ/AQ/AK, basically any part of his 4bet calling range.You lost this hand when you didn't bet the turn. Although as others said, just bet the flop.

[Lucoo_ 0]

Thanks for the advice guys, i am not really familliar with 4 bet bluffs and spots like this. Seems like i indeed should have bet flop or turn. Anyhow i bet the river for 13 and he folded for those who want to know.

[babylondonks 5]

You can definitely fire the river and he's folding a lot, for like $11 or something. If he was interested in the pot he'd for sure bet earlier, and he's 8 tabling. Here you can just randomly fire and expect them to not handread you at all. But AT is the worst worst worst worst worst worst 4bet bluff hand basically.

[pokerinc 0]

I'm calling your river bet with any pair and possibly ak, so it's a wasted bet to me at that point. Bluff earlier or put in a third check imo.

[mtdesmoines 2]

bluffing early is cheaper and more effective.

[kreppsen 0]

bluffing early is cheaper and more effective.

[Luke00016 0]

Thanks for the advice guys, i am not really familliar with 4 bet bluffs and spots like this. Seems like i indeed should have bet flop or turn. Anyhow i bet the river for 13 and he folded for those who want to know.

A 4-bet bluff is similar to any other bluff, in that it has to tell a consistent story that your villain will believe.If you're 4-betting PF OOP, what does this tell the villain? You're strong and not afraid to play this hand aggressively OOP. Also, villain told you something when he flats the 4-bet in position. He wants to play you and see what you do, but isn't willing to shove PF (I suspect he would with AA/KK/AK, maybe QQ, as he wouldn't expect you to fold to the 5-bet). This tells us a bit about his range. . .Now, with a board like what you've got and you repping a 4-bet PF range, what would you do if you DID have a hand? Of course you wouldn't check the flop and turn! Except, possibly, if you had exactly QQ and hoped to trap.For your story to be consistent, you need to bet the flop/turn (one or both depending on villain's reactions). Checking your action twice is going to get you looked up on the river here a lot by any PP or AK, as you've basically told villain that you either missed entirely or have exactly QQ.

[NoBBiR 0]

If you're both playing pretty Laggy, and have been 3betting each other kind of a lot, it's probably better to slow down and start 3betting/4betting him with marginal hands only when you're in position. He's less likely to go out when he is on the button and you're sort of Laggy.