Question About Stop And Go

[patho 0]

Okay, so my friend said for a successful stop and go basically there's a preflop raise and then you go all in against your opponent and win the pot.So, I was playing a Double or Nothing on PokerStars and we were on the bubble. It got folded around to me in the small blind. I raised, the big blind called. I see that I have flopped a straight and so I go all in and my opponent calls and I win the pot. Is that how the Stop and Go technique works?Please ignore that fact I raised preflop with J8o and have a medium stack. I know I had much better options. I was just trying to see if I was doing the stop and go method properly.I have pasted the Hand History below:PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $100 + $8 Tournament, 75/150 Blinds 15 Ante (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comBB (t2495)UTG (t1355)MP (t1315)CO (t5650)Button (t1845)patho (SB) (t2340)Preflop: patho is SB with J , 8 4 folds, patho bets t375, BB calls t225Flop: (t840) 9 , 10 , 7 (2 players)patho bets t1950 (All-In), BB calls t1950Turn: (t4740) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)River: (t4740) J (2 players, 1 all-in)Total pot: t4740Results:patho had J , 8 (straight, Jack high).BB had 10 , K (one pair, tens).Outcome: patho won t4740Then the guy was all in on the next hand and bubbled and it was over.

[rjf826 0]

This is not a stop and go at all. A stop and go is a play used when you are getting low on chips and wake up with a marginal, but potentially the best hand preflop, in the big blind. The basic set up is that someone raises in late position, and you pick up a hand like a small pair or a weak ace in the big blind. The stacks should be such that the original raiser is going to forced to call a shove preflop, therefore forcing you to have the best hand at a showdown. When running the stop and go, you will be calling the raise, and then shoving on every flop. You should make sure that the flop hits the table and you would have had enough time to see it, process the info, and shove as a decision, not as a predetermined outcome. The goal is for the villain to see a flop that they don't like, potentially folding a hand that beats your. For example, if they raise with 77, you have 55. If you shove preflop and they have to call, you lose 80% of the time. If you run the stop and go and the flop comes K102, there is a great chance they will now be folding 77 because the odds are not as compelling. It works the same way if they raise with AJ and you have A9 or something like that. If the flop misses their hand, which it wil most of the time, your shove will win a pot you otherwise would not likely win. Another advantage is that if you have 55 and the original raiser has a hand like AK, you can get them to fold without having to look at 5 cards, giving you less of a chance of getting knocked out by the river A, K, etc. For example, you have 3000 chips in the 200-400 level. They raise to 1000 in LP. If you shove, they will be getting better than 2-1 to call and will do so almost 100% of the time if they have a clue. When you execute the stop and go, their odds won't change, but if they missed the flop, they fold. You should be aware that good players who recognize a situation as a stop and go will be far more likely to call you with a seemingly weak hand if they suspect this play. If I raise in LP and it appears that someone is setting this play up, I am already thinking that I am calling regardless of what hits on the flop. You'd be surprised how often those 7's hold up...Also, I would not use this play in cases where you have a greater chance of having the best hand. If you can get it in against an LP raiser with 99 or better, AK, AQ, I'd do it. Chances are that when they are calling with AJ/AT or worse because it looks like they are getting a good price, they are making a mistake as a bigger dog than the pot odds being offered.Hope this helps.

[Royal_Tour 0]

umm. the 1st reply looks like a copy and paste from somewhere so i'm sure its accurate.But your example is not a stop and go.IMO stop and go is a strategy that you can use throughout a hand and not just limited to pf but i guess that could be considered a floatBut the best way to simply describe one is if you're in a tournament with JQ.PF you bet, someone raises, your options are to fold, call or re-raise. Your stack is too small to put in a re-raise without committing all your chips. so your re-raise would be an all in.You decide to do a stop and gomeaning you call the raise, and then shove the flop.You're trying to fold out hands that are slightly ahead of you, but arent strong enough to call your flop shove.Think of it from your opponents perspective. He has AQ in the above scenario, the flop comes down K,8,4. You shoved. Now him calling this shove is much more difficult than if he called yoru shove pf.which if you did shove pf. he would be way ahead without having to make any future decisions.

[Init2WINitHI 0]

Great question Patho and thanks for these replies - they are both very helpful. Although Royal doesn't think so - I think the explanations are pretty similar in concept. My question is if this is a stop and go, then what is a go and go?Aloha

[Merby 3]

<stuff>Hope this helps.

Great explanation (regardless as to whether or not it was copy+pasted or typed out).

Aloha

How's that SN working out for ya?

[rrumsey 0]

yah i know you have a small M but why not just take the reduced price and see a flop first, hit something, then stack off. Stop and going or whatever you where trying to do with a 2 gapper off suit is not wonderful poker imo. its kind of stupid and trying to generate fold equity when not much is to be had...

[Royal_Tour 0]

Great question Patho and thanks for these replies - they are both very helpful. Although Royal doesn't think so - I think the explanations are pretty similar in concept. My question is if this is a stop and go, then what is a go and go?Aloha

sorry,when i said "your example is not a stop and go" i meant the original post.The guy above me had posted a proper use of stop and go. I just thought it was rather long and tried to shorten up the gist

[rjf826 0]

Royal tour, the example you presented is not what is commonly viewed as a stop and go. Also, my original reply was just a stream of conscience, not a cut and paste. A go and go, works with a slightly larger stack than a stop and go, and also involves a bigger hand. In this case, your opponent has raised in late position, with what you feel is a marginal hand. In a go and go, you reraise a minimal amount with AK, AQ, 99, 1010, etc. You are expecting to get called by most of their range. After you are called, you are planning to shove any flop. In this example, the blinds are 200-400. You have 5500, the LP raiser has more than enough. LP raises to 1000. You reraise to 2200 with AK. The LP raiser calls, getting a compelling price of almost 3-1. You shove whatever the flop is, now they are getting less than 2-1 with a hand that probably is worst or missed the flop.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Royal tour, the example you presented is not what is commonly viewed as a stop and go. Also, my original reply was just a stream of conscience, not a cut and paste. A go and go, works with a slightly larger stack than a stop and go, and also involves a bigger hand. In this case, your opponent has raised in late position, with what you feel is a marginal hand. In a go and go, you reraise a minimal amount with AK, AQ, 99, 1010, etc. You are expecting to get called by most of their range. After you are called, you are planning to shove any flop. In this example, the blinds are 200-400. You have 5500, the LP raiser has more than enough. LP raises to 1000. You reraise to 2200 with AK. The LP raiser calls, getting a compelling price of almost 3-1. You shove whatever the flop is, now they are getting less than 2-1 with a hand that probably is worst or missed the flop.

no no, you are mistaken. Your idea that hand strength matters with a stop and go, is not true at all.The simple fact is, the definition of a stop and go is thisA play where you call (rather than re-raising) a raise, but then come out betting on the next card.also, what the hell is a go and go? Is this some new term that players are using now? It sounds like it was recently introduced. I've spent the last 6 years on forums and this is the first ive heard of such a play.Your example of raising preflop, getting called, and betting the flop is called a continuation bet. Or Can be consider having first-in-vigorous if you are first to act, and decide to move all, regardless of flop.after looking into this term, I cannot find anything of substance that relates to this term as being a generally accepted poker move. If there has been some discussion in the past about, "how to play a go and go" its a play someone has designed to work in a certain situation.whereas the stop and go is actually a strategy term. The stop and go is used preflop and flop, in tournament play, and could be done using a marginal hand. But does not necessarily need to be.Its the intent of getting your villain to fold, which is why the stop and go works.