Religimyth...

[crowTrobot 2]

Its funny that you throw 'contemporary' in the mix and think that you discredit Josephus.

"james the brother of jesus" aside (not worth arguing about), josephus says nothing about disciples being martyred.that tradition comes from 2nd and 3rd century christian apologists, not from jewish/roman historians.

[vbnautilus 48]

Also, how do you know that they weren't anally probed?

I'm sure they were. Just not by aliens.

[Randy Reed 0]

I believe it is possible the world is older than 6,000 years old. I could be wrong about it's age, and there are reasonable reasons why you and others think it is 4 billion years old next May at 12:00 eastern.I also think that should the world actually be 6,000 years old, there is a reasonable way to look at things and allow them to fit. As I explained in a silly story a couple posts back.Since we know matter cannot be created or destroyed, everything is at it's core the exact same age... so when we use the Argon/Lead method of dating, we aren't really saying that a chunk of lead is really only 3 billion years old...because it is in fact as old as the universe isn't it?We are saying it's current state is 3 billion years old. Even though we have no idea what happened to it during the last 3 billion years with regards to cosmic rays, gravity, black holes etc. Things that could effect it in a manner that would change how old it appears are a reality, but we make the claim that we 'know' it's age?What you are trying to hold to is that in mankind's minuscule time in existence, with an even smaller time of looking for the answers, and from a perspective of a planet that we haven't even seen all that many other planets in the universe, we are making a statement that we know enough to discount a Bible that predicted the next 4 major world powers hundreds of years before it happened. Or predicted the reemergence of the nation of Israel 2,000 years before it happened?When someone mocks my allowance for the possibility that a miracle happened at one time, they are saying that they know enough about matter, energy and space time to tell me what can and cannot happen outside of their pay grade as it were.So whose mind is best described as closed? The one who allows for miracles because the Bible which some it has survived for a total of 4,500 years recounts it's happening? Or a person who is 20 something telling me that there is no way that a fragment of a book of the Bible someone found could be a copy of an earlier text because he doesn't want to believe that it is possible that the book of John was written by a guy named John who lived with Christ? Or the guy who refuses to allow anyone to use the word atheist to mean that a person doesn't believe in God? Or the guy who's mind is so fried from hallucinogenics that he can't finish the Jeopardy Thread just as I was hitting my stride?I actually would not be shocked if I got the age of the earth wrong. It is an argument with no rewards for the winner. But I know it bugs closed minded people so I get the fun of being the tweaker instead of the tweakee. Plus I think the earth is 6,000 years old last October around 4 AM.For my mind to be closed, I would have to say that I know enough about the universe to say that there is almost no chance that there is a God, or that I know the God of the Bible probably isn't real because I know enough about things to make this assertion. Or that miracle cannot happen because I've never seen one.That doesn't sound like me, that sounds like some others though.

Hey, BG did you know that Dawkins book is still the exact same, VERBATIM, as it was when it was written originally? Isn't that amazing! It must be a miracle from God! I think he is giving us a sign. I mean, who's to say right? You can't disprove miracles. And since it is written now, exactly the same as a few years ago it has to be true! Isn't this your argument for the bible? Since it hasn't changed, it must be true?Let me tell a story, BG gets everyone in a time machine and surprises them because he takes them back to the 8th day of the world. You can hear everyone yelling, "You *******" as they realize they are about to be consumed in a flaming mass.But geez, I think YOUR God is a racist, bigot who inflames the masses into war and even going so far as to predict it. My God would make them throw the colorful rags the carry away and realize that despite the territory they reside or the color of their skin we should abide by a common set of moral values and not go around killing off those that don't agree with me.And really, isn't ignoring all logical evidence to the evolution of the planet an easy way to justify believing anything you want to believe in? Throw in the miracle possibility and it can make it nearly impossible to have a logical discusion.

[brvheart 1,752]

"james the brother of jesus" aside (not worth arguing about), josephus says nothing about disciples being martyred.that tradition comes from 2nd and 3rd century christian apologists, not from jewish/roman historians.

You say this like you actually know what you're talking about. Interesting.

[crowTrobot 2]

You say this like you actually know what you're talking about. Interesting.

i do. thanks for noticing

[Royal_Tour 0]

[Balloon guy 158]

Hey, BG did you know that Dawkins book is still the exact same, VERBATIM, as it was when it was written originally? Isn't that amazing! It must be a miracle from God! I think he is giving us a sign. I mean, who's to say right? You can't disprove miracles. And since it is written now, exactly the same as a few years ago it has to be true! Isn't this your argument for the bible? Since it hasn't changed, it must be true?Let me tell a story, BG gets everyone in a time machine and surprises them because he takes them back to the 8th day of the world. You can hear everyone yelling, "You *******" as they realize they are about to be consumed in a flaming mass.But geez, I think YOUR God is a racist, bigot who inflames the masses into war and even going so far as to predict it. My God would make them throw the colorful rags the carry away and realize that despite the territory they reside or the color of their skin we should abide by a common set of moral values and not go around killing off those that don't agree with me.And really, isn't ignoring all logical evidence to the evolution of the planet an easy way to justify believing anything you want to believe in? Throw in the miracle possibility and it can make it nearly impossible to have a logical discusion.

I find it odd that you get so upset that I believe something different than you.But that's what the ignore button is for.

[Randy Reed 0]

I find it odd that you get so upset that I believe something different than you.But that's what the ignore button is for.

Who's upset? Sorry if I come off that way.I'll get back to logical discusion, sir.Since you agree that the fossil record is strong evidence for evolution, what are your thoughts on Homo Erectus and how he would fitinto the bible's Garden of Eden story? (Homo Erectus was the common ancestor to Home Sapien and Neanderthal)Did he have a soul? Since their was no christianity could they be saved?I'm curious as to Christians point of view on this.

[colonel Feathers 5]

Adam walked alone in the garden, God saw this and decided it was not right for the man to be alone.So He approached adam and told him he should not be alone,God told adam he would create for him a woman.Adam Asked " what is a woman"God replied " a woman will be the most beautiful of my creations, she will forever be your partner, cook your meals, tidy your home, laugh at your jokes, and basically worship the ground youwalk.Adam replied " sounds great O lord, but it sounds expensive ".God said " yes adam it is, it will cost you an arm and a leg.After much pondering adam asked God " what can I get for just a rib ?"

[James D 0]

Adam walked alone in the garden, God saw this and decided it was not right for the man to be alone.So He approached adam and told him he should not be alone,God told adam he would create for him a woman.Adam Asked " what is a woman"God replied " a woman will be the most beautiful of my creations, she will forever be your partner, cook your meals, tidy your home, laugh at your jokes, and basically worship the ground youwalk.Adam replied " sounds great O lord, but it sounds expensive ".God said " yes adam it is, it will cost you an arm and a leg.After much pondering adam asked God " what can I get for just a rib ?"

Bit sexist isn't it?Oh wait, you're a deeply religious Christian, I forgot. Got any others? I know you lot love your homophobic and racist jokes too, let's hear 'em.

[brvheart 1,752]

Bit sexist isn't it?Oh wait, you're a deeply religious Christian, I forgot. Got any others? I know you lot love your homophobic and racist jokes too, let's hear 'em.

*eyeroll*

[Royal_Tour 0]

Who's upset? Sorry if I come off that way.I'll get back to logical discusion, sir.Since you agree that the fossil record is strong evidence for evolution, what are your thoughts on Homo Erectus and how he would fitinto the bible's Garden of Eden story? (Homo Erectus was the common ancestor to Home Sapien and Neanderthal)Did he have a soul? Since their was no christianity could they be saved?I'm curious as to Christians point of view on this.

he cant believe in homo erectus, or any other hominids for that matter. Because according to BG, the earth is only 6000 years old. Oh, and the fossils that we've dug up and discovered to be tens of thousands, or even millions of years old in the case of prehistoric animals, were all put on earth as a test from God.Its absolutely ridiculous to believe the stories in the bible and the teachings of christianity.. It really is.I mean, lets get real for a second, an Unexplained, all powerful "being" who created the heavens and the earth, created all creatures and controls the universe, but needs to "test" humans?Needs to make sure they have faith? 1st off, why does he care? if he didnt create the earth, the universe blah blah, what else would he have done?So he creates all this wonderful shit, but wants people to blindly believe in him? If he needs people to believe in order to be "saved" just ****ing show us.do some cool god like shit and prove to us, and we'll believe. Ugh man.. the lack of logic in some peoples minds now-a-days is soooo insane. Its crazy how these people can walk around everyday using technology, can go to a pharmacy for prescriptions, can work in government offices, yet throw all rational thought out the window when it comes to our existance

[JoeyJoJo 18]

if he didnt create the earth, the universe blah blah, what else would he have done?

I actually have the exact opposite argument. What motivation would God have to create the universe? But on the other hand, why would we assume that a God would have human emotions and desires?

do some cool god like shit and prove to us, and we'll believe.

I'm wondering about this. What exactly would have to happen for you to believe? I suspect that if God did some "cool god like shit," there would be a vast array of scientific explanations for how something like it could happen.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I actually have the exact opposite argument. What motivation would God have to create the universe? But on the other hand, why would we assume that a God would have human emotions and desires?

thats how Christianity portrays God. Hence my issues.p.s. i dont think you have the exact opposite argument. The exact opposite argument would be along the lines of "He had to create it"I think we both have a similar argument, yours is more along the lines of why did he do it?

I'm wondering about this. What exactly would have to happen for you to believe? I suspect that if God did some "cool god like shit," there would be a vast array of scientific explanations for how something like it could happen.

No, not at all. If God did "cool god like shit" he/she/it... would have been doing so for the last 2000 years, it would be standard.You're born.. you go to church with your parents. And god is there, every sunday. Like some type of ghost, And because he's god, he can be everywhere at once.and on your 12th birthday you get to ask God a question.. and you get a legit reply. Not some shmuck who "preaches the word"

[vbnautilus 48]

It's funny, I agree with RT's point of view, but not with any of his arguments for it.

[Royal_Tour 0]

It's funny, I agree with RT's point of view, but not with any of his arguments for it.

thats why religion is a joke.You can invent your own reasons for believing or not believing. There is No factual evidence for any of it. Much like J.K Rowling of today, people put together some fictional stories, built a huge empire on it, and cashed in on the believers. I asked BG, if he would agree to allow the Cathlic Church to stop building new churches and donate all profit to cancer research.. He said No.doesnt that come across as silly and selfish? isnt there something in the bible that talks about helping your fellow man? If christianity was so great, wouldnt they invest that money to help the sick and homeless as much as possible?I mean, churches made of 100% marble in the vatican aren;t going to cure cancer anytime soon

[JoeyJoJo 18]

Royal Tour: Religion is dumb!vbnautilus: I agree, but your arguments aren't well articulated.Royal Tour: That's why religion is such a joke!

[vbnautilus 48]

I asked BG, if he would agree to allow the Cathlic Church to stop building new churches and donate all profit to cancer research.. He said No.doesnt that come across as silly and selfish?

For one thing, BG is not Catholic, so I don't see why he would be invested in how the Catholic church spends their money. But be honest, no it does not. On the contrary the idea of a church doing just that would seem rather silly. Why do you think the entire purpose of the church is to cure cancer? Clearly the church does not see its role as primarily a fund generator for scientific research. The church believes that the things it does are in line with its purpose. If you want to start a charity to cure cancer, go ahead. That is not what a christian church is.

isnt there something in the bible that talks about helping your fellow man? If christianity was so great, wouldnt they invest that money to help the sick and homeless as much as possible?

That's not the only way to help your fellow man. But, they do indeed invest money in those things, and studies have shown that religious people donate more money to charity than non-religious people. I don't think their track record on helping the homeless is the achilles heel of religion.

[crowTrobot 2]

It's funny, I agree with RT's point of view, but not with any of his arguments for it.

they're unfocused and rambling (no offense) but he's headed in the right direction on some points.i assume you agree that the doctrine of a god who supposedly wants all humans to accept him yet places them in an environment where most of themwon't is in itself evidence christianity is false.

[vbnautilus 48]

they're unfocused and rambling (no offense) but he's headed in the right direction on some points.i assume you agree that the doctrine of a god who supposedly wants all humans to accept him yet places them in an environment where most of themwon't is in itself evidence christianity is false.

Well, most of them do accept him, so we can't say he put them in an environment where most of them won't. I guess unless you mean accept that specific god. That's probably what you mean. Obviously the whole "logic" of religion is a preposterous mess.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

For the people who say that God should make himself clearly and indisputably evident to everyone, are you the people who think that the score shouldn't be kept in t-ball and that every kid gets a trophy just for participating?I mean, if everybody goes to heaven, how would we know who the winners and losers are? Come on!

[crowTrobot 2]

I guess unless you mean accept that specific god. That's probably what you mean.

RT was specifically bashing "stories in the bible and the teachings of christianity", not general theism.please don't give BG any more straw man fuel for mixing the two. he does that enough on his own

[crowTrobot 2]

For the people who say that God should make himself clearly and indisputably evident to everyone, are you the people who think that the score shouldn't be kept in t-ball and that every kid gets a trophy just for participating?I mean, if everybody goes to heaven, how would we know who the winners and losers are? Come on!

sounds like an argument for calvinism : )

[colonel Feathers 5]

Bit sexist isn't it?Oh wait, you're a deeply religious Christian, I forgot. Got any others? I know you lot love your homophobic and racist jokes too, let's hear 'em.

Not funny ? ok fine, but how do you extract racism and homophobia from that ? Your sensitivity and paranoia knows no limits does it. P.S. Do you by chance have a shrine to Neville Chamberlain in your home?Pss Wigan is not that good

[Suited_Up 2]

I actually have the exact opposite argument. What motivation would God have to create the universe? But on the other hand, why would we assume that a God would have human emotions and desires?

I don't know why I decided to come in this forum for like the 2nd time ever, but since I did...I was going to say something similar to this actually. Basically that God sure does seem to have a lot of human-like hangups that have developed over the years. How does that work exactly?Also, if we can't have the universe without God, where exactly did he come from? Godfather? Supergod?