Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 1-2NL 8 handed. live play. The majority of the table is waiting for 2-5NL spots to open. myself and villain included.villain is a regular. young guy. bounces between NL and Limit.hero - 300+villain - 300+Hero is BB with 7s7c1 fold, MP1 limp, 2 folds, villain raise to 12, button fold. SB calls, Hero calls. MP1 folds.flop8s, 6d, 2dsb check, hero check, villain bet 16. SB fold. Hero calls. turnJchero check, villain check.river 8hhero check, villain bet 40, hero calls.thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 1-2NL 8 handed. live play. The majority of the table is waiting for 2-5NL spots to open. myself and villain included.villain is a regular. young guy. bounces between NL and Limit.hero - 300+villain - 300+Hero is BB with 7s7c1 fold, MP1 limp, 2 folds, villain raise to 12, button fold. SB calls, Hero calls. MP1 folds.flop8s, 6d, 2dsb check, hero check, villain bet 16. SB fold. Hero calls. turnJchero check, villain check.river 8hhero check, villain bet 40, hero calls.thoughts?I think it's fine. If the kid is a reg, you're going to see a missed ace here about 70% of the time I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Merby 3 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 IPITS I think it's fine. If the kid is a reg, you're going to see a missed ace here about 70% of the time I think. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I somewhat considered a possibly blocker.value bet of like $30-$40, but with so many missed draws I would be content to check/call trying to pick off a bluff Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 If the villain has ace high, his bet on the river seems like a mistake. Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 his bet's may be a mistake with ace-high or with any marginal hand that has more showdown value than missed draws. but he might figure we could fold a weak pair.but still he could be betting say a king high flush draw, or he could be making a mistake, and yea we could also be owned by 99/TT but that happens...price is good, we get some info, his line's peculiar, so look him up. On a close decision at the river I lean toward a call. I like having the image of a caller rather than a folder, too Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 I somewhat considered a possibly blocker.value bet of like $30-$40, but with so many missed draws I would be content to check/call trying to pick off a bluffHmm. Not sure i'm digging this idea.so are we putting the blocker bet of 30-40 to prevent villain from betting more than the pot?I'm not sure what our blocker bet is going to beat if we're called.I understand the notion of putting the blocker bet of 40. folding to a raise. is better than calling a pot sized bet of 70 and losing.but all the times we're ahead here we lose value from bluffs. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I think that's pretty standard as played. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 i guess this comes down to how much you know about villain. If you just know him but don't know his style and how he thinks, perfect line. If you know he may be capable of firing AK, AQ, A10 ish types of hands on river as only way to pick up the pot, then i could maybe talk myself into a call here as a pure hero call.I like the checked river regardless because we are almost never good on a bet call on river unless villain is a total aggro tardAs played very standard, good hand Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 It does come across as very standard. Which is actually my reason for posting it. The table was mostly ok with the hand. Some people in awe of the call. And villain upset that I'm such a donkey. David- he said. The 8 is good. And I tabled 7's then he mucked.Some food for thought. What if your villain with AA -10,10 here?If u know your opponent (me the hero) is a thinking player you can make the argument that I fold the turn to another big bet. And that I called the river because it looks like I'm picking off bluffs. So with that said, is the best way to play a big Pp hu with position vs a thinking player more along the lines of Go-stop-Go?Of course the board texture does matter. Thoughts on this? Link to post Share on other sites
trystero 0 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I love live poker, in awe of the call lol I don't doubt itRoyal I think I'd just fire every street (of course depending on texture) if I had AA here. For one you're calling oop multiway so your range has to be sort of solid. As it turned out you happened to be near its absolute bottom, but your flop call can indicate 8x/99/mayyybe some other overpairs/draws, and most of that isn't bailing to a turn bet. You might fold some draws because you realize that oop w/one card to go there's no point continuing, but your made hands shouldn't go anywhere. The jack isn't that scary of a card as it only helped kj/aj. Now if villain fires a third bullet, you lose more of your "made hand range," but not here on the turn.There's no point bluffing the river because very few made hands on this board go bet/check/bet. imo it's a big leak of "regs" to think they can get away with it. They're smart enough to know that they should bet to win, but they aren't aware that they cannot represent a value betting river hand when they checked on the turn. Presumably a pair would want to charge draws from continuing. if he had TT/99 I'm more on board with this play but even then not really. What's the difference between TT/AA? You aren't playing queens like this, and what did the jack hit that you OOP floated? If it beat TT it also beat AA...(well not entirely true obv I know you could be calling w/JdXd) Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 I love live poker, in awe of the call lol I don't doubt itRoyal I think I'd just fire every street (of course depending on texture) if I had AA here. For one you're calling oop multiway so your range has to be sort of solid. As it turned out you happened to be near its absolute bottom, but your flop call can indicate 8x/99/mayyybe some other overpairs/draws, and most of that isn't bailing to a turn bet. You might fold some draws because you realize that oop w/one card to go there's no point continuing, but your made hands shouldn't go anywhere. The jack isn't that scary of a card as it only helped kj/aj. Now if villain fires a third bullet, you lose more of your "made hand range," but not here on the turn.There's no point bluffing the river because very few made hands on this board go bet/check/bet. imo it's a big leak of "regs" to think they can get away with it. They're smart enough to know that they should bet to win, but they aren't aware that they cannot represent a value betting river hand when they checked on the turn. Presumably a pair would want to charge draws from continuing. if he had TT/99 I'm more on board with this play but even then not really. What's the difference between TT/AA? You aren't playing queens like this, and what did the jack hit that you OOP floated? If it beat TT it also beat AA...(well not entirely true obv I know you could be calling w/JdXd)yea. Along the same lines as what I expected to hear from anyone. I'm just looking at stirring the pot with some strat folk. Most of you know Im known for creating hypothetical situations that would require some very accurate card reading. It's one thing that I really worked on over my year as a full time player. How to pin point a hand. I think poker is the type of game that continues to use the same fundamentals now a days as it always has. With some new theories along the way. It would be interesting to see how much different hands are played when you know the other players hole cards. It's obvious that strategy would change. Anyways, it all sparked my interest a couple years ago when watching a video about tells and how some people can read others so precisely. Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 So with that said, is the best way to play a big Pp hu with position vs a thinking player more along the lines of Go-stop-Go?Of course the board texture does matter. Thoughts on this?you mean like, void of bad board texture doing say a bet flop, check turn, check call river? or.. checking flop, betting turn, check calling river? Those lines could very easily make your hand harder to read, but with big hands i think we still have to pound, otherwise it becomes clear how we are playing hands, doesn't allow for too many buffs Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 you mean like, void of bad board texture doing say a bet flop, check turn, check call river? or.. checking flop, betting turn, check calling river? Those lines could very easily make your hand harder to read, but with big hands i think we still have to pound, otherwise it becomes clear how we are playing hands, doesn't allow for too many buffsNo i mean, if we put ourselves as the villain in my hand.if we hold a big PP (as villain) and we know hero holds enough of a hand to pick off a bluff with, but its not a good enough holding to c/c two bullets.Its difficult to judge in my hand example but say its as follows.we hold QQ in LPUTG limp, MP limp. folds.. WE raise. blinds fold, UTG fold. MP calls.we start to narrow his range now..flop comes 10,7,3 rainbow. MP checks, we bet, MP calls.turn 2MP checks.. if we fire another bullet here we could very easily lose all weak pairs, if we fire and get called, we could be behind.Only plausible hands we beat here in these spots are draws and maybe TP. But looking at the hand, we raised pf. bet flop, now bet turn. we are showing plenty of strength.MP would have to be blind to miss this. (so to sum.. If we fire another bullet on the turn, we narrow his calling range to a draw)But if we check the turn through.River comes 7.MP checks, we bet. MP looks to call here with most pairs. If MP was on a draw that missed, we open up the possibility he bluffs the river.The major downside to this is Not winning the pot on the turn. I usually like winning this pot uncontested. This was just an idea Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Just to be clear, I don't find it implausible that the villain bet ace-high here. It's just a mistake to do so, because the hero will call with a hand like 77. Link to post Share on other sites
kreppsen 0 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I like middle apples or oranges better, really.Sorry, I just had to. Link to post Share on other sites
nomad_monad 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 hi royallong timeif you think villain is reasonably good at value-betting, then i like a CRAI on the river more than a call.otherwise, i play it the same.cheersedit - just remembered you were 300 deep not the normal 200 for a 1/2 game. so just a CR, not a CRAI. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 hi royallong timeif you think villain is reasonably good at value-betting, then i like a CRAI on the river more than a call.otherwise, i play it the same.cheersedit - just remembered you were 300 deep not the normal 200 for a 1/2 game. so just a CR, not a CRAI.Nomad!?what the? lol didnt expect to see a reply from you.. I've been posting again for about a month or so after leaving for a year.How have you been? how's the grind? Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Hmm. Not sure i'm digging this idea.so are we putting the blocker bet of 30-40 to prevent villain from betting more than the pot?I'm not sure what our blocker bet is going to beat if we're called.I understand the notion of putting the blocker bet of 40. folding to a raise. is better than calling a pot sized bet of 70 and losing.but all the times we're ahead here we lose value from bluffs.I lead river so we don't lose when we instead call the villain's river bet and he shows 99/10-10/JJ; I think especially someone who plays limit a lot will check the turn and bet the river with those hands. Link to post Share on other sites
Merby 3 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I lead river so we don't lose when we instead call the villain's river bet and he shows 99/10-10/JJ; I think especially someone who plays limit a lot will check the turn and bet the river with those hands.I disagree. The villain will rarely fold these hands to a river donk bet (Especially the JJ ). Your hand is a bluff catcher, but has showdown value. You are costing yourself money by bluffing this river, as you are just getting his bluffing range to fold and are still getting looked up by everything that beats you. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now