Eww River Spot Vs Moron

[RISEorFall 0]

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP1 ($33)MP2 ($118.90)Hero (CO) ($99.60)Button ($18.85)SB ($106.50)BB ($97.40)UTG ($58.45)UTG+1 ($99.80)Preflop: Hero is CO with K , 8 , J , 10 2 folds, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.50, BB checksFlop: ($5) 4 , 9 , 7 (5 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $4, Hero calls $4, 2 folds, MP1 calls $4Turn: ($17) 8 (3 players)MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $15, MP1 calls $15, 1 foldRiver: ($47) 9 (2 players)MP1 bets $13 (All-In), Hero folds....Total pot: $47 | Rake: $2.35I usually raise hands like this in position, esp. when i have decent reads on the other players. MP2 is a pretty decent player, which is probably why I didn't. he's usually up and I haven't noticed him do anything overly weird or bad in lots of sessions. MP1 on the other hand i dont think knows how to play. the other night i played a pot with him that went like this:i raised in MP with AA85ds and he called from the BB. flop was A88 he checked i checked. turn was J he bet like $2 I called. river was 6 he bet $5 i raised to $45 he called and showed QT97 for a total airball. i dont know if he thought he had a straight or what. he's the river villain in this hand. as bad as he is, i dont think you can really misjudge a full house, right? i mean the pots big so maybe i have odds to call on the chance he's just being weird or bluffing a missed draw?

[pokerinc 0]

yeah, that fold is darvin moon status in my book.He called 40$ on what you perceive is a misread hand and your folding this river for that little bet? If he's got a big hand you really don't think he's getting it in prior to the river here?

[redhollywood 0]

It is hard to say if in the earlier hand he didn't misread then it could be possible he is just betting trips on the river or he is just bad enough to have made lower straight and think he is slowplaying it by waiting till the river to push the rest of his chips. Looking back at the way he played this hand seeing how he played the earlier hand I think I have to call this bet here. It is just to possible that he is just playing trips here and he is just that bad. He probably thought top pair on the flop was good and was "slowplaying" it in his mind and then made trips on the river and decided to shove.

[Frez 0]

1/3 = full house1/6 = same straight1/3 = smaller straight1/6 = trips or lessso call.

[RISEorFall 0]

1/3 = full house1/6 = same straight1/3 = smaller straight1/6 = trips or lessso call.

did you just make those up?thinking about it i dont think he's bluffing. i was just thinking "crap theres a million cards i have to dodge" then one hit and he insta shoved. i wasnt thinking about all the other hands he could have that i still beat. i was kinda sick after i folded.

[trystero 0]

thought you hated folding ? :Peven I call and I'm a nit's nit. The price is TOO good against someone who you suspect doesn't know how to play PLO

[rrumsey 0]

i hate folding in this spot. we have a very good hand and if we fold to this good price we are going to screw ourselves in the long run

[RISEorFall 0]

thought you hated folding ?

I DO! thats partly why i was sick

[trystero 0]

I DO! thats partly why i was sick

to be honest I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to why or when I call river bets. Sometimes I fold in spots where I've got a solid hand and my opponent reps nothing, other times I'll call when he can only have the nuts. Randomness seems to govern everything I doeven tho I hate omaha w/all my soul, because whothe**** can play a game where everyone but you makes the nuts, it has helped my HE game by getting me to loosen up and play hyperaggro. no one ever has anything in HE (one combo LOLLL) so you might as well run 'em over

[RISEorFall 0]

to be honest I don't think there's any rhyme or reason to why or when I call river bets. Sometimes I fold in spots where I've got a solid hand and my opponent reps nothing, other times I'll call when he can only have the nuts. Randomness seems to govern everything I do

thats the problem i think is that i keep paying off with 2nd or 3rd nut hands on the river b/c im getting decent odds and "theres no way he would have that here" and of course they do. so i try to tighten up, and make folds like this against horrible players, then hate myself, and pay off the next 5 river bets against decent players when i know im beat.

[bdc30 0]

yeah, as others have said, terrible fold with the odds you're getting. This can be anything from trips to busted diamonds to even a lower straight.

[trystero 0]

thats the problem i think is that i keep paying off with 2nd or 3rd nut hands on the river b/c im getting decent odds and "theres no way he would have that here" and of course they do. so i try to tighten up, and make folds like this against horrible players, then hate myself, and pay off the next 5 river bets against decent players when i know im beat.

I don't think there's a game which causes me to question myself more than PLO does. Not even Stud hi and I hate that more than anything else. At least in NLHE I have a good idea of what I'm doing and I can evaluate when I'm outmatched and when my strategy is +EV. PLO, I don't have a clue. Just when I think I'm getting a handle on the game some weird ass situation crops up where I'm at a loss for words. Like yesterday I flopped top set and the 2nd nut flush and got check/raised on the flop, like wtf do I do here? Later I flop the 2nd nuts again and c/c and c/f the turn, saying "this cannot possibly be a profitable strategy," and then imagining that every situation in which you flop the 2nd nut flush carries horrible RIO. And then I'll be in a spot where I win 8 BBs with the 2nd nuts and I ask myself, why didn't you bet it at least one time in the hand you idiot? They can't have the nut flush EVERY TIME, can they? And in NLHE you can feel pretty good about bet/folding (in fact it's a great strategy) because you're bluffed so rarely, especially on later streets, but in PLO all of the bet/folding crushes your confidence, and you start to think that CHECK/FOLDING IS THE RIGHT PLAY WITH A FULLFUJCKINGHOUSE???I guess the dry spells don't help either. Like I can go 500 hands without one significant pot, so it feels like I must be playing too exploitably and these tough 5plo regs are just eating me alive.

[dingas 0]

I don't think there's a game which causes me to question myself more than PLO does. Not even Stud hi and I hate that more than anything else. At least in NLHE I have a good idea of what I'm doing and I can evaluate when I'm outmatched and when my strategy is +EV. PLO, I don't have a clue. Just when I think I'm getting a handle on the game some weird ass situation crops up where I'm at a loss for words. Like yesterday I flopped top set and the 2nd nut flush and got check/raised on the flop, like wtf do I do here? Later I flop the 2nd nuts again and c/c and c/f the turn, saying "this cannot possibly be a profitable strategy," and then imagining that every situation in which you flop the 2nd nut flush carries horrible RIO. And then I'll be in a spot where I win 8 BBs with the 2nd nuts and I ask myself, why didn't you bet it at least one time in the hand you idiot? They can't have the nut flush EVERY TIME, can they? And in NLHE you can feel pretty good about bet/folding (in fact it's a great strategy) because you're bluffed so rarely, especially on later streets, but in PLO all of the bet/folding crushes your confidence, and you start to think that CHECK/FOLDING IS THE RIGHT PLAY WITH A FULLFUJCKINGHOUSE???I guess the dry spells don't help either. Like I can go 500 hands without one significant pot, so it feels like I must be playing too exploitably and these tough 5plo regs are just eating me alive.

I don't think there's a game which causes me to question myself more than PLO does. Not even Stud hi and I hate that more than anything else. At least in NLHE I have a good idea of what I'm doing and I can evaluate when I'm outmatched and when my strategy is +EV. PLO, I don't have a clue. Just when I think I'm getting a handle on the game some weird ass situation crops up where I'm at a loss for words. Like yesterday I flopped top set and the 2nd nut flush and got check/raised on the flop, like wtf do I do here? Later I flop the 2nd nuts again and c/c and c/f the turn, saying "this cannot possibly be a profitable strategy," and then imagining that every situation in which you flop the 2nd nut flush carries horrible RIO. And then I'll be in a spot where I win 8 BBs with the 2nd nuts and I ask myself, why didn't you bet it at least one time in the hand you idiot? They can't have the nut flush EVERY TIME, can they? And in NLHE you can feel pretty good about bet/folding (in fact it's a great strategy) because you're bluffed so rarely, especially on later streets, but in PLO all of the bet/folding crushes your confidence, and you start to think that CHECK/FOLDING IS THE RIGHT PLAY WITH A FULLFUJCKINGHOUSE???I guess the dry spells don't help either. Like I can go 500 hands without one significant pot, so it feels like I must be playing too exploitably and these tough 5plo regs are just eating me alive.

Man, don't get me started.. the other day I lost a 500bb pot flopping top full house vs. quads in a HEADS UP GAME. But I still feel I misplayed it and could have saved 100bb or so by folding. In answer to the specific hands you raise:flop 2nd nut flush and middle set and get check raised: Why did you bet the flop? Seriously.. what's the point of betting? Given that you bet and got checkraised, it's probably correct to get it in if you feel you have the current best hand about 10% of the time - didn't do the math but pretty much unless you put him on the nuts 100% you should get it in. flop 2nd nuts and check call flop check/fold turn. Definitely not a profitable strategy. Just check-fold flop is better."every situation where you flop 2nd nut flush has negative ROI" - it's true that most of the time you put significant money in the pot with the 2nd nut flush it will be a losing proposition. "win 8-bb pot with 2nd nut flush" - when you make the 2nd nut flush on the flop you will almost never win a big pot. If no one bet before the river, they would probably have folded to your bet anyway, so your not betting makes no difference."Bet folding in omaha vs. NLHE" you probably get bluff-raised about the same amount in both games (almost never at the low levels). It's just that in Omaha they have the goods more often, so you get raised more often. In Omaha, check-calling with good but not great hands is usually the right play because it induces bluffs that would just fold if you bet out.If I noticed a pattern in most of these hands, it is you playing out of position... If i could make a recommendation to you, just fold everything from the sb and bb except the premium hands and always raise or fold when first in, without limping. This should keep you out of most of these troublesome situations.