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Official **wsop Main Event Final Table** Thread


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haven't really read this thread in its entirety but there seems to be a Moon backlash. The guy seemed like a humble guy that just wanted to play some cards, got hit in the head by the deck, got action and got a little lucky too. Isn't that just a good day of poker? So he's not a card pro that knows what fold equity is. So what? He wasn't a showboat, a dick or anything. I liked the guy, and I did see some dumb comment about his IQ. So stupid.
I thought he was trying really hard to appear as a humble guy, and that kind of annoyed me. Acting like he didn't care about the money and all, it was frankly a bit much, and I thought it was actually kind of insulting to the other players. Plus, he lied to his wife about the KQ hand? How stupid is that knowing that its going to air on tv?
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I didn't watch it, but is it possible he misread his hand?
Folding QQ on a 432ss board getting 7.5:1 for a ton of chips would be the most hilariously awful play ever. I wish it were true but I just can't see it being true.
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I thought he was trying really hard to appear as a humble guy, and that kind of annoyed me. Acting like he didn't care about the money and all, it was frankly a bit much, and I thought it was actually kind of insulting to the other players. Plus, he lied to his wife about the KQ hand? How stupid is that knowing that its going to air on tv?
I think your read is way off here. From what I've read and seen about him, he doesn't care about money. The 1.2 mill he walked away with from the Main Event, before the final table started was more money than he'd ever seen or need in his life. He probably turned down thousands upon thousands of dollars for a sponsorship. I think that some people just don't get wrapped up in monetary affairs and aren't motivated by it, at all. I think he was just an easy going guy trying hard not to get overcome by all the attention that came from playing a poker tourney, which is all he wanted to do.as far as the hand everyone is talking about, I didn't see it, but based on the rest of his play, I'd say he misread his hand. Most basic players don't lay down QQ preflop or post flop on a rag board. But again, I didn't see it, so...yeah.
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I think your read is way off here. From what I've read and seen about him, he doesn't care about money. The 1.2 mill he walked away with from the Main Event, before the final table started was more money than he'd ever seen or need in his life. He probably turned down thousands upon thousands of dollars for a sponsorship. I think that some people just don't get wrapped up in monetary affairs and aren't motivated by it, at all.
First, I don't really believe that he doesn't care about 8 million dollars. That's enough money that it simply is not conceivable that it doesn't change his life. This is a guy who has had liens against him for up to $20K and has written many a bad check. But regardless, it's a poker tournament, and the money is the incentive that drives the whole thing, so to shrug off the money like he did is not noble in this context. Example: at the FT when they put the cash bundles out, and Cada said something like "wow, that is really a lot", Moon just shrugged and said "It's money". I thought this was really obnoxious, because #1 undermining the value of the money undermines the whole event you are a part of and surely the spectacle that the producers are trying to create, #2 you have to recognize that Cada is a 21 year old kid from a working class background, so to not be able to acknowledge what a huge shitload of money that could change his life was was not humility, it was just basically just rude. I'm not saying he was trying to be rude, I just think he decided the humble game was an honorable way to be and played it up.
as far as the hand everyone is talking about, I didn't see it, but based on the rest of his play, I'd say he misread his hand. Most basic players don't lay down QQ preflop or post flop on a rag board. But again, I didn't see it, so...yeah.
He had KQ, folded it, and told his wife he had QQ. There is no way he lays down QQ with 3 undercards given how prone to shoving 100 million chip stacks he was with K9o. But if he did misread his hand, that's just ridiculous.
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I've met a lot of people like Moon who have a sort of angry odd sense of integrity I heard he was offered like 75k just to wear a hat before he had even cashed and refused plus he clearly passed up a ton of endorsement money to wear logos at the final tableHe clearly didn't want to be a whore and i give him credit for thatwhen you pass up a ton of money - your motives are clear and you shouldn't be criticized as being fake - if only more fake people didn't whore themselves outas to the "it's only money" comment - I think Moon knows that whether he won 8 mil or 5 that his life would be comfortable for all timeOur country's whole fascination with the lifestyles of the rich and famous living is sick - don't criticize moon because he is happy controlling his spending and living a happy modest lifeIf you suddenly have a 5 million windfall you shouldn't need to whore yourself out for a couple extra mil

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I've met a lot of people like Moon who have a sort of angry odd sense of integrity I heard he was offered like 75k just to wear a hat before he had even cashed and refused plus he clearly passed up a ton of endorsement money to wear logos at the final tableHe clearly didn't want to be a whore and i give him credit for thatwhen you pass up a ton of money - your motives are clear and you shouldn't be criticized as being fake - if only more fake people didn't whore themselves outas to the "it's only money" comment - I think Moon knows that whether he won 8 mil or 5 that his life would be comfortable for all timeOur country's whole fascination with the lifestyles of the rich and famous living is sick - don't criticize moon because he is happy controlling his spending and living a happy modest lifeIf you suddenly have a 5 million windfall you shouldn't need to whore yourself out for a couple extra mil
every once in a while, you type out a gem
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Let's be honest.....the two guys who got the luckiest made it to heads up.
Beglieter was in bad a ton and kept winning, and Cada was a luckbox of all luckboxes at that final table.
The fT was a luckboxfest, but a lot of those hands would have been similar results had the player behind called and seen the flop etc.
1. Anyone really can win the main event - seem to see more skill watching Sunday Million FT replays. Motivated to hop back in teh ME qualifiers for next year.2. You gotta be a luckbox, but chip and a chair can happen too - remember thinking when Cada was at $2M that "This guy ends up with $136M????"
Yep.Overall disappointing final table. If Shulman or Ivey wins some of those key pots, the poker world rejoices for the chance of one of the FT's top pro's making it heads up.I didn't see much of the FT broadcast, but I did see Moon's interview about him retreating to some Montana cabin with no running water and his hunting buddies. He said he would just take his gun and go find somewhere to take a nap.
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I've met a lot of people like Moon who have a sort of angry odd sense of integrity I heard he was offered like 75k just to wear a hat before he had even cashed and refused plus he clearly passed up a ton of endorsement money to wear logos at the final tableHe clearly didn't want to be a whore and i give him credit for thatwhen you pass up a ton of money - your motives are clear and you shouldn't be criticized as being fake - if only more fake people didn't whore themselves outas to the "it's only money" comment - I think Moon knows that whether he won 8 mil or 5 that his life would be comfortable for all timeOur country's whole fascination with the lifestyles of the rich and famous living is sick - don't criticize moon because he is happy controlling his spending and living a happy modest lifeIf you suddenly have a 5 million windfall you shouldn't need to whore yourself out for a couple extra mil
I have no problem at all with him turning down the advertisements. I am surprised more people don't do that. I am embarrassed for most of the people who turn themselves into human billboards. I also would never criticize someone for living a modest life. You're missing my point entirely. I have very little interest in money myself. But when I enter a poker competition, I am not going to criticize the other people for wanting the money, and I am going to play for the most money possible. Let's say I am in an olympic weightlifting competition, and the guy next to me puts an amazing amount of weight on his bar, imagine if I say "meh, its only muscle, I'm happy not being so strong." Some people are happy living a life being skinny and lean, sure. But this is strength competition. My comment is out of place here.
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I have no problem at all with him turning down the advertisements. I am surprised more people don't do that. I am embarrassed for most of the people who turn themselves into human billboards. I also would never criticize someone for living a modest life. You're missing my point entirely. I have very little interest in money myself. But when I enter a poker competition, I am not going to criticize the other people for wanting the money, and I am going to play for the most money possible. Let's say I am in an olympic weightlifting competition, and the guy next to me puts an amazing amount of weight on his bar, imagine if I say "meh, its only muscle, I'm happy not being so strong." Some people are happy living a life being skinny and lean, sure. But this is strength competition. My comment is out of place here.
actually i agree with you in that I think they asked a bunch of pros is it the money or the bracelet and they all said bracelet but Doyle said the purpose is moneybut I think it's pretty clear that Darvin Moon knew that he was incredibly fortunate to be the luckbox that he was and that he was determined not to let vegas, the press, the money etc change who he wasit wasn't like he was trying to put cada down for having dollar signs in his eyes - i'm pretty sure Darvin was ready to admit that Cada and everyone else at the final table was far superior to him poker wise - in fact he said it many timesI can see your frustration that he didn't show a ton of enthusiasm, but take it from me that's just what those guys are like - they have a chip on their shoulder about the way they live their livesas to why he lied to his wife about KQ vs QQ - he didn't want to look stupid and he's not buying her cable no matter how much green they give him :club:
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First, I don't really believe that he doesn't care about 8 million dollars. That's enough money that it simply is not conceivable that it doesn't change his life. This is a guy who has had liens against him for up to $20K and has written many a bad check. But regardless, it's a poker tournament, and the money is the incentive that drives the whole thing, so to shrug off the money like he did is not noble in this context. Example: at the FT when they put the cash bundles out, and Cada said something like "wow, that is really a lot", Moon just shrugged and said "It's money". I thought this was really obnoxious, because #1 undermining the value of the money undermines the whole event you are a part of and surely the spectacle that the producers are trying to create, #2 you have to recognize that Cada is a 21 year old kid from a working class background, so to not be able to acknowledge what a huge shitload of money that could change his life was was not humility, it was just basically just rude. I'm not saying he was trying to be rude, I just think he decided the humble game was an honorable way to be and played it up. He had KQ, folded it, and told his wife he had QQ. There is no way he lays down QQ with 3 undercards given how prone to shoving 100 million chip stacks he was with K9o. But if he did misread his hand, that's just ridiculous.
In terms of what you've said about someone who's playing poker being able to play and not think about the money, I think you're a bit off. The most successful people at any competition are going to be, from what I've seen, those that not only possess a natural talent but also have an extreme love/passion for the game they are playing and nearly obsess about it's every intricacy. It is a paradox though and a similar one that I have with being a Marxist and playing poker, but playing poker helped me gain a much bigger grasp on the intricacies of life, this leads me to also believing tournament poker is a much truer form of poker, but that may be because it's more easily measured, and easier to quanitify reasons why plays are right or wrong in the precept of a single tournament.I think there are those that play poker and in general view life from a much different perspective, one that isn't so fueled by emotion, greed or pride. These people generally care less about singular results, and are less prone to being caught in results based thinking. I think there is a great amount of potential for a player able to make these seperations while being able to delve deeper into the understanding of their self and their place in life in conjunction with their understanding of the game.May seem like mumbo jumbo but makes sense to me... :club:
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This is trueIvey had encountered no resistance to his opens and was never 3-bet before this so he decided he could find better spots.
pretty sure the hand update people were innacurate. by my count, up to th JJ hand , ivey had already raised and folded to a 3bet twice. and also by my count up to hand 112, saout was nearly as active as anyone at the table, maybe with 2-5 less opens than the most active player. plus throw in the fact that so many of saouts plays were 3bets and not simple opens, it seems to me that bumps him up to tied for most active
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it wasn't like he was trying to put cada down for having dollar signs in his eyes - i'm pretty sure Darvin was ready to admit that Cada and everyone else at the final table was far superior to him poker wise - in fact he said it many times
I agree, I don't think he was trying to put anyone down.
as to why he lied to his wife about KQ vs QQ - he didn't want to look stupid and he's not buying her cable no matter how much green they give him :club:
lol
In terms of what you've said about someone who's playing poker being able to play and not think about the money, I think you're a bit off. The most successful people at any competition are going to be, from what I've seen, those that not only possess a natural talent but also have an extreme love/passion for the game they are playing and nearly obsess about it's every intricacy.
Of course. But Darvin was barely even trying to win this game. He certainly wasn't obsessed about its intricacies. This is partly what was so annoying about him. He was dismissive of the whole thing and basically tried to turn it into pure luck. He certainly didn't come off as a lover of the game.
I think there are those that play poker and in general view life from a much different perspective, one that isn't so fueled by emotion, greed or pride. These people generally care less about singular results, and are less prone to being caught in results based thinking.
The reason that good poker players do not focus on the results of an individual hand, and try to make decisions that are not guided by emotion, is because that is a good strategy to maximize long-term profits. They don't do it because they don't want to win more money.
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Of course. But Darvin was barely even trying to win this game. He certainly wasn't obsessed about its intricacies. This is partly what was so annoying about him. He was dismissive of the whole thing and basically tried to turn it into pure luck. He certainly didn't come off as a lover of the game.
You and James McManus should get together and have some cheese with your whine
The reason that good poker players do not focus on the results of an individual hand, and try to make decisions that are not guided by emotion, is because that is a good strategy to maximize long-term profits. They don't do it because they don't want to win more money.
You might want to rethink your argument here hipposhankalots.
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pretty sure the hand update people were innacurate. by my count, up to th JJ hand , ivey had already raised and folded to a 3bet twice. and also by my count up to hand 112, saout was nearly as active as anyone at the table, maybe with 2-5 less opens than the most active player. plus throw in the fact that so many of saouts plays were 3bets and not simple opens, it seems to me that bumps him up to tied for most active
http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/ws...day1/page22.htmIvey Starting to Make Some Noise After what has been a very quiet start for Phil Ivey, this level seems to have awoken the beast. Ivey has been not afraid to put his chips in the pot, winning sizable pots from both Jeff Shulman and Steve Begleiter. Could it be that Ivey is starting to get a read on his opponents after five plus hours of play, or is the deck starting to break even? With 16 million in chips, Ivey has more chips than he has had at any time during this final table. With the dinner break less than ten minutes away, it will be interesting to see how the break effects Ivey's newfound momentum.5 hands later right and last hand before the dinner break the JJ hand happened and since Ivey was at his high point he figured he'd wait for a better spot.
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Ron Mexico and I don't agree on much anymore, but if you guys start attacking the old fat guy, we will band together and crush you all.Moon earned the right to think about money however he wants to think about it. you have not earned the right to critique his feelings about money just because you would act different.I think it's cool that hanging out with his buddies in the cabin hunting in Wyoming was a better use of his time before the final table than Shulman, who elected to hang out with Hellmuth and Schoenfeld for a couple months.

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Ron Mexico and I don't agree on much anymore, but if you guys start attacking the old fat guy, we will band together and crush you all.Moon earned the right to think about money however he wants to think about it. you have not earned the right to critique his feelings about money just because you would act different.I think it's cool that hanging out with his buddies in the cabin hunting in Wyoming was a better use of his time before the final table than Shulman, who elected to hang out with Hellmuth and Schoenfeld for a couple months.
I thought the cabin thing was a little gay actually. But I agree with everything else.
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You might want to re-read my last sentence, rhinosaysalot giraffaposttoomuch Balloon Guy.
You might want to learn ENGLISH and sentence structure coelacanthbelieveeverythingyoureadimus
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Moon earned the right to think about money however he wants to think about it. you have not earned the right to critique his feelings about money just because you would act different.
I can critique his attitude simply because he is on national TV. Also, I'm a featured member. I'm sure you got the same "Right To Criticize" letter that I got for that.
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Also, I'm a featured member. I'm sure you got the same "Right To Criticize" letter that I got for that.
Along with that AWESOME gift bag. I haven't finished eating all the tofu jerky and I've had it for over a year!
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How can anybody hate on Moon the guy was relaxed the whole time I think he did one fist pump during the KJ hand and thats it. While other players are jumping up and down after every all in, this guy was always respectful.

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