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20 Live Sng.. Set Faces All In..


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This was a live $20 SNG against seven others. It had started not too long ago (blinds started the tournament at 10/20 and were now 20/40) and we started with 2000. At the time he had roughly 2500 and I had about 1700.It went something like this;Hero (UTG) has 10s 10c, raises to 80UTG +1 FoldMP1 FoldMP2 calls 80CO FoldButton FoldSB calls 60BB FoldFlop is 10d 6d 3dSB checkHero bets 120MP2 goes all inSB FoldHero ...?What should I do? Does he really have the flush? He's a pretty passive player that tends not to play worse cards and bets aggressively when he does have cards. Although, he's been caught sometimes not to before. (I have played with him before.)

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i hate the min raise utg, normal 3x or 4x maybe 5x but no more than that bet this pre, that makes the flop problem bad bc we let too many people ride along. as played, fold. you are stuck in a bad spot. There is a chance the naked A or K is out there but he is overshoving hard i just fold it. If you would have raised pre bigger c-bet this then fold to the shove or check raise flop are the options. I tend to cbet these boards when i raised without reraisers it just works a lot of the time. Thats my opinion

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I realized after I raised that I should've raised more.. I usually play high cards with min raises but I mix it up. I played this wrongly as you can tell and now I got lucky in a bad spot..

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There really arent many times where folding a set in a sng is correct, this more often than not is just someone blasting away with the ace of diamonds...this being live is where you should be studying your opponent to give you hints as to his holdings, how heavy is he breathing, his pulse in his neck, is he leaned back in his chair, did he bet verbally or just shove his stack in, is he staring at you, etc... All of these things mean strength or weakness depending on the player, but some can be generalized if you havent seen it on him before to use as an educated guess. (ie heavy breathing or a quick pulse on his neck, most of the time means a big hand)This is so early in the sng i dont see a problem folding this hand or calling it....

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Two things.1) what kind of structure is this tourney? I'm assuming it's a home game, and if it's anything like my home games, they tend to be on the fast paced, quick blind increase side. The faster the pace, the more of an auto-call this becomes.2) This play, especially in a home game is wholly indicative of Ad. I know it happens, but it takes a really bad player (unless it's situational and he's that high above the rim) to make a ridic overbet all in here actually having the made flush. Plus your hand is strong enough that you will have 7 and 10 outs, drawing twice, in the rare chance you are beat on this flop. he can even have 66 or 33 that you are dominating.This is an auto call. Call, see the diamond draw, fade it, profit.

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Don't minraise PF. Ever.Fist-pump call, see him table Ad 6x, cringe when the diamond hits on the turn, then fill up on the river and smack his hand as he tries to scoop the chips after the turn hit.The only way this is an actual flush with a big overshove like this is if its a baby flush - which goes back to why you don't minraise PF.

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I'm with Max and Swoly on this one.And, for the record, I think the min raise is one of the stupidest "strategies" ever. All it does is open the door for pot odds calls by speculative hands and lagtards. Every time I see someone consistently min raising, I just wait for an opportunity to punish them.

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Don't minraise PF. Ever.Fist-pump call, see him table Ad 6x, cringe when the diamond hits on the turn, then fill up on the river and smack his hand as he tries to scoop the chips after the turn hit.The only way this is an actual flush with a big overshove like this is if its a baby flush - which goes back to why you don't minraise PF.
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Don't minraise PF. Ever.Fist-pump call, see him table Ad 6x, cringe when the diamond hits on the turn, then fill up on the river and smack his hand punch him in the face as he tries to scoop the chips after the turn hit.The only way this is an actual flush with a big overshove like this is if its a baby flush - which goes back to why you don't minraise PF.
This.
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Well I'm getting away from the minraising now.In this situation it was a home game but our blinds are actually quite long, and we start with bigger stacks. After a few minutes of debating I finally folded the set, and he turned over a diamond flush. He actually decided to let us chase, and I would have went runner runner with 5s to make the full house.All for the case of learning.

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I know you're learning and all, but it's hard for me to emphasize just how bad it is to fold top set there.Never ever ever ever ever ever fold a set on the flop for < 100 BBs.Seriously. Never. I'm sure someone will try to cook up a crazy example to prove me wrong, but I'm still never doing it.

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Don't minraise PF. Ever.Fist-pump call, see him table Ad 6x, cringe when the diamond hits on the turn, then fill up on the river and smack his hand as he tries to scoop the chips after the turn hit.The only way this is an actual flush with a big overshove like this is if its a baby flush - which goes back to why you don't minraise PF.
I 100% agree with all of this
I don't know how to fold flopped sets.
I don't even want to learn how
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Well I did.. and it was the right call. I guess I have a lot of discipline. I knew this guy just had it.

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No, it wasn't the right call. Just because he had a made flush this time doesn't mean you made the right decision. That's called results-oriented thinking. If you make a fold that is only correct 5% of the time and the time you did it just happens to be that 1 time out of 20 that you were beat, you still made a terrible choice. Poker is a long-term game, you have to start thinking this way.Even if "you knew" he had it - which you can never KNOW, by the way - you do realize that 30% of the time you will still beat him, right? Add to that the number of times you actually are ahead (which is the vast majority), and the dead money in the pot, and this is like a super-snap-fistpump-highfive your buddy next to you-call.

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Like, this is one thing...omg (about to get flamed), but I don't mind making folds in certain situations where everything says "call". Like there are just sometimes when table dynamics, villain based, and betting patterns, and people just feel they are beat. Now in this situation, it is LOOOOOOL bad to think that. Dude, you minraised PF. First big mistake. Make it 2.5x or 3x PF. After that, I like that you lead, but his jam into the pot just screams something like JJ-QQ or maybe XxAd. A villain who know ANYTHING about poker is going to try to get value from his flush. Jamming does not get value. So no, you did not make the right decision. I don't care if he "twitched" his eye or he coughed, it is a HORRIBLE fold. Nothing here based on betting patterns and random villains make this a good fold. This is prolly one of the worst folds b/c even if he had what he had you have redraw outs!

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Well thank you for helping me learn that. I'll take the set next time.

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Well thank you for helping me learn that. I'll take the set next time.
I made a simple spreadsheet that you can play around with the to see how +/- EV this will be. Play around with the highlighted yellow areas which are their potential hands, their equity against your hand and the probability that you think they'll have that hand. And there is the pot size and effective stack size areas. Playing with these will show you that Villain will need to have a flush a huge portion of the time to make this call -EV, even after any ICM tax that may apply based on payout structures.top_set___Copy.xls(I'm almost positive I made this spreadsheet right, but someone correct me if I'm retarded)
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Call. The ridiculous overbet seems like a big flush draw. The nut flush is (I hesistate to say never) almost never making this bet, and even a smaller one would milk you a little better..unless the guy is just terrible. I would be much more concerned about a smooth call then a shove here. Min-poppin pre with a hand like this simply gets you into trouble on the flop, he likely could have flopped it..either way I'm happy about gettin it in there. If he shows you the 5d6d kick yourself for not raising like you have some testicular fortitude.

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