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Who Would U Bet On Getting Deeper In A Nlhe Tourney, Hellmuth Or Ivey?


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They are probably the best NLHE poker tournament of all time, but if u got 10k to bet on someone who u think he is gonna get deeper on a random tournament who would u choose, ivey or hellmuth?Probably most of you would say Ivey cus of his recent scores and amazing run in this Main Event, but... would it be the best decision?---The best decision would definately be betting on who is the most consistent between these two. And I strongly believe there is no more consistent player than Hellmuth. He's got a gap while he plays. He might not play a sophisticated game but that means nothing. Results (not earnings, results) are afterall the real judge. And if we base on that Hellmuth clearly pownes Ivey. Ivey btw got busted many times in earlier stages of important tournaments. While u know hellmuth won't make those mistakes so early, and he is gonna make day 2 or whatever the tournament structure is. But we actually know Hellmuth will have better odds than Ivey for getting deep on a tourney. Ivey is those players that either he gets busted in the first hands of a tournament, or gets REALLY deep. It seems Ivey plays his best when stakes are higher, while Hellmuth is stronger at the earlier stages of big tournametns but he probably struggles in latter ones. I don't know if its because he knows how to stay out of trouble, his playing system, his reads, but there is almost an 80% of chances he will cash in any NLHE tourney he plays. And that is a fact.In the last season of poker after dark when he played with Ferguson Daniel Brunson Lederer and Ivey, I was 99% sure he was gonna finish at least in third place, and I knew there was high chances Ivey will be busted in first place. It actually happened that way, not because im a genius but it has to do with these different playing styles they got. Btw im not saying Ivey is not consistent or so, (he had amazing runs in the lasts Main Events) but It might be related with the fact Ivey's style is not much effective in tournaments as Helmuth's.So the decision would be either choosing a player that could get busted in the very early stages of the tournament or getting very deep,,,or choosing a consistent player that will guarantee a deep run in the tournament, as he makes no mistakes and get away of marginal situations.So being a sophisticated player will not make u a better player than someone who plays simpler but he is far more effective.Having said that, and by deduction, the best learning poker book would be that of the most consistent and effective playing style, which is in this case, Hellmuth. Ivey and only Ivey can play the way he does, and this is a personal thought, but I think the small ball strategy can only be played by some one like Daniel Negreanu. This strategy is not good for beginners at all. This strategy will trap u since u never know whether they raise u cus u act as u are weak or they raise u cus they really have a better hand. So u get into this confusion that could cost u lots of chips. Daniel could use it effectively, but I would not recommend that strategy to be apply but anyone who's not 110% sure of how to play it. So if u wanna learn some poker, u gotta watch that poker brat.

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I get your point about Hellmuth being more consistent, but that doesn't necessarily make a great endorsement for his book. I've got both Negreanu's and Hellmuth's books, and I find Negreanu's way better for the beginner (Power Hold Em Strategy). Perhaps the whole small ball strategy is a little too much, but the beginner tourney strategy is easy to apply, and with a few adjustments, easy to win with at small stakes. Hellmuth's writing is just plain bad, and his book is a bit of a loser IMO. I don't take anything away from him as a player, he's one of the best, but he's sure no poker writer. I would totally recommend Power Hold Em Strategy to a beginner.

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I think a few new catagories should be listed in FCPthis one should be implemented ASAPGENERAL GENERIC RANDOM STUPID THINGS I THOUGHT OF TO POST AND CLOG UP THE FORUMS TODAY and maybe one where following comments will be no more than 4 or 5 words total. cant think of a working title right now.

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I only read the title of the thread....Mainly the part about who would get deeper....I bet I get deeper than both of them! HEYO!!!!
LOL Drunkaments.The real answer depends on if Ivey has any side bets on this specific tournament.
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tl/dr most of it but:I think the buy in, structure, and general composition of the field would be the factors to use in determining my bet.If it's relatively high buy in/small field/pro heavy my money goes on Ivey.If it's a low buy in/large field/general public my money goes on Hellmuth.If it's the ME it's 6/5 and pick 'em.I'm bored.

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tl/dr most of it but:I think the buy in, structure, and general composition of the field would be the factors to use in determining my bet.If it's relatively high buy in/small field/pro heavy my money goes on Ivey.If it's a low buy in/large field/general public my money goes on Hellmuth.If it's the ME it's 6/5 and pick 'em.I'm bored.
tl/drAlways bet on black, Ivey
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Only 18% of people know that
and with his 69 wsop cashes and 11 WPT cashes, it starts to make you think why he's only played 100 tournaments between the 2 in the last 20 years??
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LEVEL thread? Not sure but anyway:$1500 NLH Hellmuth lasts longer. He actually cares, Ivey is usually just wasting time$10,000 NLH Ivey crushes and it's not remotely close. Ivey does well against sophisticated opponents, while Hellmuth's results in deep stacked NLH events against tough opponents is terrible, a la the WPT.

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LEVEL thread? Not sure but anyway:$1500 NLH Hellmuth lasts longer. He actually cares, Ivey is usually just wasting time$10,000 NLH Ivey crushes and it's not remotely close. Ivey does well against sophisticated opponents, while Hellmuth's results in deep stacked NLH events against tough opponents is terrible, a la the WPT.
DN, I thought that I had read or heard somewhere that Ivey considers NLH one of his weaker games. Not saying by any means it is weak, he just considers himself better at the other games. Is this accurate you think?
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LEVEL thread? Not sure but anyway:$1500 NLH Hellmuth lasts longer. He actually cares, Ivey is usually just wasting time$10,000 NLH Ivey crushes and it's not remotely close. Ivey does well against sophisticated opponents, while Hellmuth's results in deep stacked NLH events against tough opponents is terrible, a la the WPT.
assuming the tournament is the Main Event 2010 who would u bet on?btw do you agree that small ball is not good for beginners?
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DN, I thought that I had read or heard somewhere that Ivey considers NLH one of his weaker games. Not saying by any means it is weak, he just considers himself better at the other games. Is this accurate you think?
That's comparable to Tiger Woods saying putting is the worst part of his game.
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assuming the tournament is the Main Event 2010 who would u bet on?btw do you agree that small ball is not good for beginners?
I would never bet on PH in anything against Ivey. Not poker, golf, backgammon, trivia games... nothing. And no, you are wrong about small ball. Once you learn the game a little bit, small ball is going to be the best way to play tournaments.
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I would never bet on PH in anything against Ivey. Not poker, golf, backgammon, trivia games... nothing. And no, you are wrong about small ball. Once you learn the game a little bit, small ball is going to be the best way to play tournaments.
If your a beginner up against superior opponents I would think small ball is not the best strategy, I mean if your playing a bunch of hands you need to be able to play well in a lot of spots and beginners are'nt going to do that.
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I would never bet on PH in anything against Ivey. Not poker, golf, backgammon, trivia games... nothing. And no, you are wrong about small ball. Once you learn the game a little bit, small ball is going to be the best way to play tournaments.
If you min raise with pocket aces allowing opponents to call u with suited connectors and flopping maybe two pair on flop, I don't think beginners are that good to fold Aces so easily, they will probably loose many chips in that spot, and btw they will never be sure wether they raise them cus they act as they are weak, or because they really have a a better hand. Small ball might effective when you stack is kinda small compared with the blinds, but in any other circunstance amateurs will go broke since small ball is a good way of trapping yourself.but anyway...
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Helmuth is more likely to go deeper, but Ivey would be more likely to win.
Couldn't have said it better. Helmuth will cash more often, but Ivey will win more often if he ever gets motivated.
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