king1305 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why is this dude still here Bob? Because he give some stakes out? Ridic. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Poto thank you for being a gentleman and saving FCPs rising stars! Link to post Share on other sites
CoolHandKai 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why is this dude still here Bob? Because he give some stakes out? Ridic.While I don't agree with poto, I do agree with freedom of speech - banning someone for holding an unpopular opinion would be more problematic than reading something upsetting from time to time. Link to post Share on other sites
fighter 4 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 While I don't agree with poto, I do agree with freedom of speech - banning someone for holding an unpopular opinion would be more problematic than reading something upsetting from time to time.Posting on this forum is not a right, it is a privilege. Link to post Share on other sites
Moneyball16 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Poto is just trolling though, like he does when anyone brings up coaching. There is no chance this is a scam for reasons already stated. If he wanted to say that Ryan isn't a good enough player or doesn't have the coaching experience to charge 30% it would be one thing, but Poto just sees the word coaching and turns into a total non-thinking troll.Personally I think Ryan is a very good player and explains his thought process well and would be a good coach. No one that fits his criteria for coaching is going to be worse off for it. At worst they don't absorb or incorporate any of his advice and continue breaking even or losing at small stakes and they don't owe him anything and at best they pay a fee that will be a fraction of what they will make back in the future from his coaching. Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Man dude, I have so many people that can vouch for my trustworthiness.Consider yourself vouched!.... again!If he is as successful as he claims, and is making as much money as he claims: Why would he waste his valuable time for a few small bucks?There is no IF involved, he is that successful, and he did it in a matter of months.OK, you make a valid point for an extreme caseI have yet to see him make anything resembling a valid point. Man, maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but I hadn't realized how much of a troll he is. Link to post Share on other sites
FARGOpokerND 22 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Consider yourself vouched!.... again!There is no IF involved, he is that successful, and he did it in a matter of months.I have yet to see him make anything resembling a valid point. Man, maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but I hadn't realized how much of a troll he is.I tried the "convince them you think they may be right so they settle down" approach...it didn't work. Link to post Share on other sites
Suited_Up 2 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I tried the "convince them you think they may be right so they settle down" approach...it didn't work.The whole.... hey, you look really nice today..... but you're a freaking dumb shit!!! Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 OK, you make a valid point for an extreme case, but you are applying it in the wrong terms. He isn't asking money up-front in any way. He is basically asking for people that would be break-even players that he can turn into a winning player. If he really offered nothing to the table, at the end of the month, the person would still not be making money, thus they wouldn't owe him any money. Do you see what I am getting at? By him turning them into a winning player, he makes THEM money (since without him, theoretically they would still be making $0) and he makes himself a bit of money during the process.As for the question of "why" he is doing this, he loves to talk about poker, PERIOD. It is a chance for him to continue to talk about poker and make a few bucks off of it at the same time. Him and I talk poker a bunch, as he does with other FCPers as well. But, his information he has to offer IS valuable, but he knows that most people that play .10/.25 and .25/.50 NL cash games can't afford the $120/hr price that most coaches charge. As he stated, he used to be in the same boat....he was a .10/.25 player and couldn't afford coaching, so when some great players came along and offered the SAME deal he is offering now, he accepted and it turned him into a MASSIVE winning player. This is his way of returning the favor that those players gave him....a way of "sticking to his roots" I guess you could say. He knows what it is like to be a grinder at that level and knowing you can't afford solid coaching, but he caught a break by a generous offer that he is now returning the favor.But all this leads back to my main point, he only profits if he can successfully turn the break-even player into a winner. So for you to call that a scam is pretty off-base.I hope you see the logic in my post and can retract your ill-intent statements. Poto is just trolling though, like he does when anyone brings up coaching. There is no chance this is a scam for reasons already stated. If he wanted to say that Ryan isn't a good enough player or doesn't have the coaching experience to charge 30% it would be one thing, but Poto just sees the word coaching and turns into a total non-thinking troll.Personally I think Ryan is a very good player and explains his thought process well and would be a good coach. No one that fits his criteria for coaching is going to be worse off for it. At worst they don't absorb or incorporate any of his advice and continue breaking even or losing at small stakes and they don't owe him anything and at best they pay a fee that will be a fraction of what they will make back in the future from his coaching. Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 Why is this dude still here Bob? Because he give some stakes out? Ridic. Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 While I don't agree with poto, I do agree with freedom of speech - banning someone for holding an unpopular opinion would be more problematic than reading something upsetting from time to time.What about slander? He called me a con man and obviously has nothing to back it up with. In the poker industry one of the most important things you can have is a good reputation and he's trying to ruin mine. Ban him Bob. Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 No.It is an attempt to alert the new and naive members of the forum that you are a con man.Any more questions?Yeah, let's keep driving away people from this site who can offer so much more knowledge to the forum!!Weeeeeeeee!!WTF?!? Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Poto goes off at times and in this case has crossed the line.Saying the words poker coaching to him seems to be like red to a bull, it sets him off.I've sent him a message and we'll see how he reponds to me.Poker coaching has greatly helped many many poker players and whether this opportunity makes sense for somebody is a decision for both the coach and student to make since in this case it's as much a partnership as it is just getting lessons. Link to post Share on other sites
TrueAce13 18 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Okay kid,Let me teach you about the oldest scam in the world.It goes something like this.................I am a good man. I am successful. I am honest and hard working, just like you. We have shared interests. I can help you make some money. All you have to do is give me some of your money. I will then take your money and make you even more.The term "con man" comes from the word confidence. Without your confidence in him, he cannot get your money.Ask yourself this question:If he is as successful as he claims, and is making as much money as he claims: Why would he waste his valuable time for a few small bucks?Like really, I understand that you give these new posters a nice little stake to a 4.40 or two or whatever...thats not going to teach people how to be lifetime winners. Ryan's knowledge of the game has soooo mch more substance than your giving of 10 bucks. Kinda like, give a guy a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a guy to fish he will eat for a lifetime. People charge up to like $500 per hour for coaching...30% is nothingI don't know Ryan personally, but I as well take offense to this when blindly attack him like this. If you don't agree, f*cking stay out of the thread.For anyone considering this, please do it and you will be a winning player in a short amount of time! Link to post Share on other sites
therescav 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I rarely post on here anymore, and it's usually because of people like Poto that I stay away.Seriously, there are that many people vouching for Ryan vs Potato's blatant slander- of which he has no grounds. Do you even know him? Grow up dude. Link to post Share on other sites
therescav 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Like really, I understand that you give these new posters a nice little stake to a 4.40 or two or whatever...thats not going to teach people how to be lifetime winners. Ryan's knowledge of the game has soooo mch more substance than your giving of 10 bucks. Kinda like, give a guy a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a guy to fish he will eat for a lifetime. People charge up to like $500 per hour for coaching...30% is nothingI don't know Ryan personally, but I as well take offense to this when blindly attack him like this. If you don't agree, f*cking stay out of the thread.For anyone considering this, please do it and you will be a winning player in a short amount of time!QFT Link to post Share on other sites
CoolHandKai 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 What about slander? He called me a con man and obviously has nothing to back it up with. In the poker industry one of the most important things you can have is a good reputation and he's trying to ruin mine.You're right, he did cross the line there and it was indeed slanderous. I think Bob struck the right balance here by sending a PM (and probably issueing a warning).Mine was more of a general remark, as people have been calling for bans in other threads as well, like the one where some troll was of the opinion that it was karma that Daniel came second. I don't think having an unpopular minority opinion warrants revoking posting privileges.You're right though that character assassination can't be tolerated. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 lol i wonder how he'd react if he knew jordan was getting coached at 375$/hour.lolol. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 lol i wonder how he'd react if he knew jordan was getting coached at 375$/hour.lolol.I've paid 450/hr for coaching. 375/hr is an awesome deal for a HSNL coach. Link to post Share on other sites
Vtlaxer09 4 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 poto's view on poker is that it is pure gambling just like roulette so its easy to see how someone with that view would think that "roulette" coaching is a huge scam. If he refuses to believe that a ton of people make a living playing this game then thats fine.. but seriously poto... take ur shit elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites
Naked_Cowboy 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Despite having my own bankroll, I play NL HU cash under a similar staking / coaching arrangement with a couple strikingly successful posters here. HU NL has always interested me, and I always felt I had some basic intuition that would lead me to be good at it, but I wasn't going to get super profitable at it on my own in a time frame that I was comfortable with. I know there are TONS of players that are in this boat where they're keeping their head above water with NL ring games and need someone to point them in the right direction and then refine their game a bit. Right now, my coaches' hourly doing it sucks but is improving every day that I play as I improve. By the time we decide to end the arrangement, I guarantee you I will be freaking thrilled to ship them each 5 figures (and they probably won't mind either).On top of that, they seem to genuinely enjoy it and the other day one of them told me that they had learned something very valuable to their own game by watching how i interpreted some of their advice. Coaching something makes you better at it. You have to distill down your ideas of how and why to do something so that someone else can consume them, and that process results in you more closely examing your own actions, which is the definition of working on your own game. Basically, this is a fantastic deal for anyone who jumps on it. Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Poto, wtf happened to you in your life that made you the way you are today? Link to post Share on other sites
Gallo 1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Poto, wtf happened to you in your life that made you the way you are today?I think he used to live in Chicago and now lives in NJ, ldo. Link to post Share on other sites
El Guapo 8 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 You'll have access to 4bb (private online forum) where you'll get to post/immerse yourself in a community of winning players.I am not sure you should be promising things you can't deliver on.It's like diversifying your portfolio with T-bills.Uhhhhh.... Link to post Share on other sites
whatgreatis 0 Posted October 2, 2009 Author Share Posted October 2, 2009 I am not sure you should be promising things you can't deliver on.Really? You know I'm going to vette my students well before taking them on. I would assume Rdog or whoever would understand that it would benefit me and my student for them to be involved in the 4bb community. Unless this is a level? I have absolutely no idea if this is a level or not. Link to post Share on other sites
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