Random Basketball Observations

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

No, I don't. Choosing to go to a team with Amare is vastly different than going to a team with Wade and Bosh. Unless you convinced me that it was their plan all along that they knew NY would trade for Melo, it's different.

but the result is the same. Melo+ Amare is the same as bosh+wade, roughly. It really matters to you that it was done through free agency, and not trade? that makes literally zero sense to me.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

So you would've been ok if he took the mid-level exception to sign with the Lakers?

Yes. IN fact, I would have been even more impressed, since it would require him to give up 10's of millions.

[CaneBrain 95]

So you would've been ok if he took the mid-level exception to sign with the Lakers?

I would not like it as a Heat fan but I would not have a huge problem with it either. And that would have been 5 times the title-short cut that going to Miami was. It's not really comparable.I think if the NBA had a franchise tag, people would be happier. Not me, but people.also:

but the result is the same. Melo+ Amare is the same as bosh+wade, roughly. It really matters to you that it was done through free agency, and not trade? that makes literally zero sense to me.

this.

[brvheart 1,752]

Brv, you're embarrassing yourself.

You vastly overestimate my ability to be embarrassed.also:

I actually am in his shoes right now

...

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

So you guys think that getting championships, no matter how obtained, is all that counts?I don't judge players solely on how many championships they've won. I think that is absurd. So if Lebron had stayed with Cleveland his entire career and they were never able to bring him the support he needed and he continued to put up the types of seasons he had, I would never say he wasn't an all-time great.When players retire and they're asked what they miss the most, it's almost always one of two answers. It's either the competition or the camaraderie. I prefer the competition guys. If I'm playing pick-up basketball and my team gets our ass kicked a couple times in a row and the other team suggests switching the teams up, I never ever want to do that. I want to run it back and beat them. It's not like I went out looking for reasons to root against them. I liked both Lebron and Wade, but just the way this all went down left a sour feeling with me.Regardless, they're making me money these playoffs, so I can't get too down about it.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

You vastly overestimate my ability to be embarrassed.also:...

Ok, change it to: "Brv, you are wildly wrong."And they're quite comfortable!

[brvheart 1,752]

So you would've been ok if he took the mid-level exception to sign with the Lakers?

Poppy would have.

[CaneBrain 95]

So you guys think that getting championships, no matter how obtained, is all that counts?I don't judge players solely on how many championships they've won. I think that is absurd. So if Lebron had stayed with Cleveland his entire career and they were never able to bring him the support he needed and he continued to put up the types of seasons he had, I would never say he wasn't an all-time great.

I think that Miami does not nearly have enough talent relative to other teams in the league to declare that they are not earning it. Miami is just not that loaded.If Lebron had taken the mid-level to go to the Lakers, I would get the argument. But that is so so so far from what he actually did that it's absurd. Heck, you can still find plenty of people who don't think Miami is the favorite.

[brvheart 1,752]

When players retire and they're asked what they miss the most, it's almost always one of two answers. It's either the competition or the camaraderie. I prefer the competition guys. If I'm playing pick-up basketball and my team gets our ass kicked a couple times in a row and the other team suggests switching the teams up, I never ever want to do that. I want to run it back and beat them. It's not like I went out looking for reasons to root against them. I liked both Lebron and Wade, but just the way this all went down left a sour feeling with me.

I can get on board with this thinking. I think you're wrong about the Heat, but at least I get what you're saying.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

So, basically, the anti-LeBron, anti-Heat argument is as follows: I don't like it.That's it. I don't like it. Why? I just don't. Don't be afraid to admit it's pure emotion.And SJ, the whole if he'd gone to NY with STAT and they'd traded for Melo' argument was perplexing. I love ya, guy, but it was perplexing.

[El Guapo 8]

So you guys think that getting championships, no matter how obtained, is all that counts?I don't judge players solely on how many championships they've won. I think that is absurd. So if Lebron had stayed with Cleveland his entire career and they were never able to bring him the support he needed and he continued to put up the types of seasons he had, I would never say he wasn't an all-time great.When players retire and they're asked what they miss the most, it's almost always one of two answers. It's either the competition or the camaraderie. I prefer the competition guys. If I'm playing pick-up basketball and my team gets our ass kicked a couple times in a row and the other team suggests switching the teams up, I never ever want to do that. I want to run it back and beat them. It's not like I went out looking for reasons to root against them. I liked both Lebron and Wade, but just the way this all went down left a sour feeling with me.Regardless, they're making me money these playoffs, so I can't get too down about it.

Again I agree. The Kings just had a huge rally in Downtown, lots of former players showed up. Everyone of them said their best memories were from the late 90's and early 2000's where they battled the Lakers and Jazz each and every year in the playoffs. They all say their biggest disappointment was not winning a title in Sac, even thought some of them got them on other teams after they left. This is the type of player I want, one who is loyal to a team that wants to win with that team. I don't begrudge LeBron, but he is not my ideal player. Not from a basketball standpoint.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

So, basically, the anti-LeBron, anti-Heat argument is as follows: I don't like it.That's it. I don't like it. Why? I just don't. Don't be afraid to admit it's pure emotion.

I feel like I've written about a thousand words on why I don't like it.

And SJ, the whole if he'd gone to NY with STAT and they'd traded for Melo' argument was perplexing. I love ya, guy, but it was perplexing.

Because choosing to play with Amare = choosing to play with Wade and Bosh?I'm talking about the choice, not the result.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

Without quoting and responding to everything...1) This has nothing to do with hating Miami, or even the organization. If these guys would have done this in Sacramento, or Memphis, or New York it would be the same reaction.2) No one has said they're not earning it, so don't put words in our mo-, text in our posts. Even though they took the easiest road, they still have to drive on that road. They're earning it every game they play.3) To reiterate SJ, who did a fantastic job in the last one or two pages, yes it matters how it happened. They conspired against the league to make a superteam, and then in the last week or so they've pushed that responsibility off onto the Celtics...claiming they did it first and inspired them. Not even close to the same situation and is a complete cop out.4) By my count they've won 3 titles already. They got their first at their little intro to Miami, then they re-peated in Washington, and three-peated when they beat Boston. Oh, and someone said they've been nothing but respectful to the Celtics...When you call a team "Lunch" you're not being respectful.5) Re: Me being bitterThe Lakers losing has nothing to do with how I feel about these guys. Go back and look at what I've been saying all year, since The Decision. How can I be bitter when my team was Back-to-Back Champions, Kobe has 5 titles, and I've seen them win 7 since I started watching basketball. When the Heat win 8 titles, then I might start feeling bitter. Also, I'm rooting for the team that beat them to win the title now. How is that bitter?6) As all of the great players stated, they would have never done what they did.7) And yes, going to NY would have been completely different.

[CaneBrain 95]

Without quoting and responding to everything...3) To reiterate SJ, who did a fantastic job in the last one or two pages, yes it matters how it happened. They conspired against the league to make a superteam, and then in the last week or so they've pushed that responsibility off onto the Celtics...claiming they did it first and inspired them. Not even close to the same situation and is a complete cop out.6) As all of the great players stated, they would have never done what they did.

3 is utter nonsense. The did not conspire against the league. If you think players don't talk about these things all the time, you're nuts. Three great players playing together is three great players playing together. How it happens is irrelevant. And as much as I appreciate Bosh's play and his willingness to be the third wheel---calling him great is a stretch.6 is worse. If any of those guys played 7 full years without a true complementary star, then they can say "oh, I'd never do that." Magic and Bird should be ashamed. Both played their whole careers with multiple hall of fame (or close) teammates. ****ing Magic won all his titles with Kareem getting the lion's share of the big shots at crunch time. No one gave them crap for having help. It's easy to throw stones when you didn't spend your prime with Mo Williams as your best teammate.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

So, basically, the anti-LeBron, anti-Heat argument is as follows: I don't like it.That's it. I don't like it. Why? I just don't. Don't be afraid to admit it's pure emotion.And SJ, the whole if he'd gone to NY with STAT and they'd traded for Melo' argument was perplexing. I love ya, guy, but it was perplexing.

This is the most reasonable thing said by a laker fan in the past 5 pages.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

This is the most reasonable thing said by a laker fan in the past 5 pages.

I'm front running hard now. LETS GO HEAT! LETS GO HEAT!

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

And yes, TECHNICALLY, if LeBron had signed with the Knicks and only Amare was on board, it is different than signing with Miami and Wade and Bosh. If only for purely mathematical reasons in that two is more than one co-superstar. But the sentiment is the same. He still left Cleveland becuase he wanted some talent around him. To me thats all the same. And I wanted him on the Knicks. I think he would have rocked the shit there. But I still like to watch him play basketball - even more now that he has some talent around him.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm front running hard now.

There's a shock.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

If any of those guys

You can't use that as an argument, because no one has ever done it like this. That's a pretty large sample size.

[CaneBrain 95]

You can't use that as an argument, because no one has ever done it like this. That's a pretty large sample size.

I'm pretty sure that invalidates their argument too, then. They have no idea how they would react because they lucked into perfect situations. mbn.

[Poppy_Hillis 11]

I'm pretty sure that invalidates their argument too, then. They have no idea how they would react because they lucked into perfect situations. mbn.

Oh really. I don't think Jordan won anything for a long time. Barkley never won anything. Ewing never won anything. Karl Malone never won anything. John Stockton never won anything. Reggie Miller never won anything. Dominique Wilkins never won anything. None of those guys ever did this. You don't think Jordan, Barkley, and Ewing couldn't have run off to play together in a time when it was easier to do so...A time when you could sign 25yr/$25MM contracts...Why didn't they?...We don't have to speculate as to why, because they told us.

[CaneBrain 95]

I mean are you serious? Malone had Stockton. Jordan had Pippen. Barkley left not one but two teams in search of a ring. And none of those guys besides Barkley and Jordan had anything to say about Lebron's choice. Not one of those guys was saddled with the bag of crap that Lebron was (except Reggie Miller I suppose). It's nothing more than old guys protecting their legacies (except for Charles who just likes to run his mouth).

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I mean are you serious? Malone had Stockton. Jordan had Pippen. Barkley left not one but two teams in search of a ring. And none of those guys besides Barkley and Jordan had anything to say about Lebron's choice. Not one of those guys was saddled with the bag of crap that Lebron was (except Reggie Miller I suppose). It's nothing more than old guys protecting their legacies (except for Charles who just likes to run his mouth).

Don't forget that Malone DID do what Lebron, Wade and bosh did. he just did it when he was older. So the big critism against this team is what, they were younger and better than Barkley when they decided to team up with other players? Their youth is the bridge between Barkley and this..

Even if I grew up a Heat fan, I wouldnt be able to root for this team. They make me feel embarrassed and a little sick that I like sports.

I just don't get it at all. I also don't understand why players forcing trades, or extorting their front offices into making moves, is some how morally superior to signing with a team as a free agent. I mean, I would get heat hate from say, Cleveland fans, or Bob... but to hear Laker fans whinge about this stuff, it just makes me laugh. Has there been a franchise that has more benefited from Players forcing trades to play at said franchise, than the Lakers?

[timwakefield 68]

Oh, almost forgot:I don't know how anyone can like Perkins.

Because he came up with the Celtics and played in Boston for a buncha years, and mostly cuz he was on our championship team. In short, homerism.

[keith crime 8]

i think it's all stupidit's got to suck when you are Lebron and you know that you just don't have it that night that you have zero chance to win and that's the way it was in ClevelandHe never criticized his teammates when he was in Cle and even last night - you could argue that that Cleveland team had peaked and missed its window - Jordan whined about his teammates frequently and in many cases destroyed their confidence for a long timeBosh is a nice pickup but not nearly in the same class as the other twoand if Wade signs with cleveland - no one says a word other than Lebron being praised for being a good recruiter - and it's really the exact same thing