Random Basketball Observations

[CaneBrain 95]

That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

I'm not sure you are talking about anything. What exactly is your point? That a team built mostly through free agency is somehow inherently inferior to a team built through drafts and trades?In a league with a salary cap, I find that argument to be incredibly stupid.You just sound bitter and it is sad. Yes, Miami executed a two year plan to strip the roster and try and score big in free agency in 2010. If you weren't aware, a number of teams did the same thing like the Knicks and Bulls. Miami just happened to do the best at that plan.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I'm not sure you are talking about anything. What exactly is your point? That a team built mostly through free agency is somehow inherently inferior to a team built through drafts and trades?In a league with a salary cap, I find that argument to be incredibly stupid.You just sound bitter and it is sad. Yes, Miami executed a two year plan to strip the roster and try and score big in free agency in 2010. If you weren't aware, a number of teams did the same thing like the Knicks and Bulls. Miami just happened to do the best at that plan.

I think his point is that Lebron, Wade and Bosh had more to do with the execution of the plan than Miami. They essentially dictated how things would play out. It's almost like buying a championship, however they still need to perform.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I think it's interesting that the non-basketball guy seems to understand Poppy best.Brv, you're embarrassing yourself.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Oh, almost forgot:

I'm pulling for the Thunder now, one because Oklahoma has a basketball team? And two because of Kendrick Perkins.

I don't know how anyone can like Perkins.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think it's interesting that the non-basketball guy seems to understand Poppy best.Brv, you're embarrassing yourself.

I kind of disagree. I mean, yes, I think brv is embarrassing himself, but not as much as saying something like this...

Even if I grew up a Heat fan, I wouldnt be able to root for this team. They make me feel embarrassed and a little sick that I like sports.

Which is about as embarrassing of a thing I've read in a sports thread, particularly coming from a fan of a team that has benefited more throughout it's history from out of market mercenary players than any other team in the NBA.

[CaneBrain 95]

I think it's interesting that the non-basketball guy seems to understand Poppy best.

I think it's because that line of reasoning doesn't make any sense. Lots of teams wanted those guys; Miami got them. Other teams had cap room. Obviously, something Pat Riley said made Miami attractive.It's not like buying a championship. Miami has the 19th highest payroll in the league. This is just the latest narrative to try and cheapen what the Heat are doing. There is nothing more noble about lucking out in the draft lottery or rooking somebody in a trade to accumulate tons of talent.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I think it's because that line of reasoning doesn't make any sense. Lots of teams wanted those guys; Miami got them. Other teams had cap room. Obviously, something Pat Riley said made Miami attractive.It's not like buying a championship. Miami has the 19th highest payroll in the league. This is just the latest narrative to try and cheapen what the Heat are doing. There is nothing more noble about lucking out in the draft lottery or rooking somebody in a trade to accumulate tons of talent.

It's not about Miami. For me, it just feels like Lebron is trying to take a shortcut to a championship. I love Lebron the basketball player and maybe I would've done the same thing if I was in his shoes (figuratively speaking; I actually am in his shoes right now), but it just feels cheaper now.When the Heat win, I don't think you get this moment:which is what I love about sports.

[CaneBrain 95]

He was not blessed enough to fall into a situation like Magic (with Kareem and Worthy), MJ (with Pippen), or Bird (with McHale, Parrish, DJ, Ainge, Walton---man this is a long list).So, he could either stay and probably end up the greatest player to never win a title or he could leave and maybe win some titles. I understand why people see it as a shortcut but I don't understand why no one mentions most of the greatest players ever had an advantage----their first team was already loaded. You are basically punishing Lebron for looking for a situation that other "greats" found themselves in immediately.The only guy who ever won multiple titles with assorted parts was Hakeem and that was only because MJ wanted to play baseball.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

He was not blessed enough to fall into a situation like Magic (with Kareem and Worthy), MJ (with Pippen), or Bird (with McHale, Parrish, DJ, Ainge, Walton---man this is a long list).So, he could either stay and probably end up the greatest player to never win a title or he could leave and maybe win some titles. I understand why people see it as a shortcut but I don't understand why no one mentions most of the greatest players ever had an advantage----their first team was already loaded. You are basically punishing Lebron for looking for a situation that other "greats" found themselves in immediately.The only guy who ever won multiple titles with assorted parts was Hakeem and that was only because MJ wanted to play baseball.

Well, I would dispute your timelines. Those guys didn't join teams that were already loaded; the team was built up around them. Even Shaq going to LA wasn't about joining forces with another great player or joining a great team. He went there to be the man.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

For me, it just feels like Lebron is trying to take a shortcut to a championship.

Yeah, I just find this argument baffling... and while you may not get this...you will get more of this..Which is what I love about sports.

[El Guapo 8]

Agree with SJ 100%I am currently rooting for OKC, after watching part of the game last night, with everyone in the stands in their white shirts chanting O.K.C.This is what I love about sports, a unity of fans who really really care. Unfortunately you don't get that with most of the major market teams.

[CaneBrain 95]

Well, I would dispute your timelines. Those guys didn't join teams that were already loaded; the team was built up around them. Even Shaq going to LA wasn't about joining forces with another great player or joining a great team. He went there to be the man.

So, Lebron is punished because his front office sucked and those guys had good front offices? Again, I don't get it. He gave them 7 years to find a Pippen/McHale/Kareem. They couldn't even find a James Worthy. Magic had Kareem immediately, Bird got Mchale and Parish very soon after joining. Shaq going to LA was not about being the man. He was the man in Orlando. That was about Shaq promoting his image for his outside of basketball activities. Getting to play with Kobe was a bonus (until they started hating each other).

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think it's because that line of reasoning doesn't make any sense. Lots of teams wanted those guys; Miami got them. Other teams had cap room. Obviously, something Pat Riley said made Miami attractive.It's not like buying a championship. Miami has the 19th highest payroll in the league. This is just the latest narrative to try and cheapen what the Heat are doing. There is nothing more noble about lucking out in the draft lottery or rooking somebody in a trade to accumulate tons of talent.

Maybe he said, "we have Miami Beach."

[CaneBrain 95]

Agree with SJ 100%I am currently rooting for OKC, after watching part of the game last night, with everyone in the stands in their white shirts chanting O.K.C.This is what I love about sports, a unity of fans who really really care. Unfortunately you don't get that with most of the major market teams.

SJ and you can be wrong together then. I'm not punishing Lebron for wanting to play with great players when all the other greats did as well. There is literally no all-time great who won multiple titles without serious help. You can't win with one guy. I applaud Lebron for recognizing that after giving Cleveland 7 good years.You only get a dynamic like OKC when you have a city with one professional team. They are the only show in town. I think it is normal a Sacto fan would gravitate to that dynamic. Most of the best crowds in the NBA come from cities where the NBA team is the ONLY team. Memphis, OKC, Portland, etc.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

This is what I love about sports, a unity of fans who really really care. Unfortunately you don't get that with most of the major market teams.

[El Guapo 8]

I am not sure what emotion you are trying to display there.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I am not sure what emotion you are trying to display there.

Well, mostly I just wanted to post that gif. I haven't found a gif of him eyerolling yet.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Which is what I love about sports.

Yeah, you like people to be annoyed and angry.

So, Lebron is punished because his front office sucked and those guys had good front offices? Again, I don't get it. He gave them 7 years to find a Pippen/McHale/Kareem. They couldn't even find a James Worthy. Magic had Kareem immediately, Bird got Mchale and Parish very soon after joining. Shaq going to LA was not about being the man. He was the man in Orlando. That was about Shaq promoting his image for his outside of basketball activities. Getting to play with Kobe was a bonus (until they started hating each other).

I said that poorly. Yes, Shaq was the man in Orlando; I meant he was going to a situation where he was still clearly the best player. I think if Lebron goes somewhere else, somewhere that hadn't just signed two guys like Wade and Bosh, then it's a different feel. I think even if he had gone to NY with Amare AND they still traded for Melo later in the year it's different.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Yeah, you like people to be annoyed and angry.

I do like that. I also like absurdity. But more than even those, I enjoy watching great players do great things. And I don't see how going to Miami in anyway diminishes lebron, his legacy or should invoke disgust. I have no dog in the NBA's hunt, so I just watch things objectively. And I find what the Heat are doing to be fascinating. Watching Lebron and Wade carry that team has been incredibly compelling to watch, and how anyone can hate on the heat after the last 5 minutes of game 5, well I just don't understand it, other than petty jealousy. Which I can completely understand, as I was pettily jealous of the Packers and Favre for years. If the heat make the finals against the mavs, I imagine I'll be rooting for the mavs, as Dirk is pretty much my favorite player ever, but I won't begrudge the heat if they win, and I'll find the jealous hatred of every other NBA fan base to be amusing.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I said that poorly. Yes, Shaq was the man in Orlando; I meant he was going to a situation where he was still clearly the best player. I think if Lebron goes somewhere else, somewhere that hadn't just signed two guys like Wade and Bosh, then it's a different feel. I think even if he had gone to NY with Amare AND they still traded for Melo later in the year it's different.

You know how ridiculous this sounds, right?

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I do like that. I also like absurdity. But more than even those, I enjoy watching great players do great things. And I don't see how going to Miami in anyway diminishes lebron, his legacy or should invoke disgust. I have no dog in the NBA's hunt, so I just watch things objectively. And I find what the Heat are doing to be fascinating. Watching Lebron and Wade carry that team has been incredibly compelling to watch, and how anyone can hate on the heat after the last 5 minutes of game 5, well I just don't understand it, other than petty jealousy. Which I can completely understand, as I was pettily jealous of the Packers and Favre for years. If the heat make the finals against the mavs, I imagine I'll be rooting for the mavs, as Dirk is pretty much my favorite player ever, but I won't begrudge the heat if they win, and I'll find the jealous hatred of every other NBA fan base to be amusing.

I'm a "great players doing great things" kind of guy too. But I think that's the problem here. When this signing first happened I said I hope Wade is Jordan and Lebron is SuperPippen. I think they might be working their way to that now, but for too long it felt like I was getting 90% of Lebron and 90% of Wade, which was still better than most teams' 100%, but I never felt like they brought the best out of each other.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

You know how ridiculous this sounds, right?

No, I don't. Choosing to go to a team with Amare is vastly different than going to a team with Wade and Bosh. Unless you convinced me that it was their plan all along that they knew NY would trade for Melo, it's different.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I am not sure what emotion you are trying to display there.

It's "I have to pee" I think.

[CaneBrain 95]

No, I don't. Choosing to go to a team with Amare is vastly different than going to a team with Wade and Bosh. Unless you convinced me that it was their plan all along that they knew NY would trade for Melo, it's different.

Nah, that seems pretty ridiculous. I think what burns most people is he spurned two great basketball towns (Cleveland and New York) to go be with his friends in Miami (not a basketball town).I mean basically what you are saying is it is ok to be drafted by a great team, ok to have a great team built around you and ok to use free agency to get on a team that is loaded but not too loaded. But using free agency to get on a team with a little too much talent cheapens the whole thing? That's so arbitrarily absurd. Especially considering how he and Wade have carried a team with a historically bad 4-12 rotation. Their best role player missed basically the whole season (Haslem). Their 2nd best role player (Miller) hurt both thumbs and barely plays anymore. Their current best role player is freaking Joel Anthony!!! He can barely catch!!!How anyone can say that if they win a title this year it is not earned is beyond me. They just won Games 4 and 5 by themselves (Wade and Lebron). People just will do anything to avoid giving them credit.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

Nah, that seems pretty ridiculous. I think what burns most people is he spurned two great basketball towns (Cleveland and New York) to go be with his friends in Miami (not a basketball town).

I'm talking about me, not most people. I don't care about "basketball towns."

I mean basically what you are saying is it is ok to be drafted by a great team, ok to have a great team built around you and ok to use free agency to get on a team that is loaded but not too loaded. But using free agency to get on a team with a little too much talent cheapens the whole thing? That's so arbitrarily absurd.

So you would've been ok if he took the mid-level exception to sign with the Lakers?

How anyone can say that if they win a title this year it is not earned is beyond me. They just won Games 4 and 5 by themselves (Wade and Lebron). People just will do anything to avoid giving them credit.

I never said it wasn't earned. I said it was cheapened. As in not quite as satisfying.