DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Um.. it really depends.. I don't think there's any single position more important than QB in the NFL. If you have a Peyton Manning, you can pencil yourself in the playoffs and having 10 wins for a decade or so.. You obviously need things around a great QB, but a great QB can cover up other weaknesses on a team unlike any other position. Typically, most teams drafting in the bottom five do not have a franchise QB...However, because of how much money a top five QB can cost a team to draft, a team that is rebuilding might be better off drafting a left tackle or defensive end in that costs less, and spending the saved cap space on other team needs. .I certainly can see the resource management argument. But, In terms of acutal need ( and need here is defined the amount your team will improve by adding a great player at X position) , a QB is usually the number 1 need of a bottom 5 team. As a rule of thumb, if you're a bottom 5 team, you probably wouldn't be if Peyton Manning was your Quarterback.Yeah.. it's kind of a dumb question because it's so subjective. I'm a pretty big proponent of building a team on the lines and working your way outward. Tom Brady looks like trash behind a terrible O-Line. I also think a lot of times teams reach for a QB just because they need one, not because the QB is going to be a solid starter for 5-10 years for them, then they get saddled with having to try and make it work for a few years as well as the monster contract. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah.. it's kind of a dumb question because it's so subjective. I'm a pretty big proponent of building a team on the lines and working your way outward. Tom Brady looks like trash behind a terrible O-Line. I also think a lot of times teams reach for a QB just because they need one, not because the QB is going to be a solid starter for 5-10 years for them, then they get saddled with having to try and make it work for a few years as well as the monster contract.Absolutely.. but the reason they reach is because having a franchise QB is so important. A lot of teams will make mistakes.. but if you get, say, a Big Ben, your team can win the superbowl despite having one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. And again, if the NFL ever gets another collective bargaining agreement, you can be damn sure the NFL owners are going to insist on caps that rookie's (particularly QB's) make. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Absolutely.. but the reason they reach is because having a franchise QB is so important. A lot of teams will make mistakes.. but if you get, say, a Big Ben, your team can win the superbowl despite having one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL. And again, if the NFL ever gets another collective bargaining agreement, you can be damn sure the NFL owners are going to insist on caps that rookie's (particularly QB's) make.I get that.. I just figure that maybe NFL fans are sophisticated enough nowadays to understand that setting yourself up at LT for 10 years is more important than gambling on a marginal/risky QB prospect, regardless of how big the name is. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I get that.. I just figure that maybe NFL fans are sophisticated enough nowadays to understand that setting yourself up at LT for 10 years is more important than gambling on a marginal/risky QB prospect, regardless of how big the name is.yeah, but people say that stuff as if LT's never bust. Tony Manderich is considered by many to be one of the biggest busts of all time. I don't have the 1st round QB verse Offensive Tackle bust chart infront of me, but I would wager that 1st round offensive linemen (and all other positions) crap out at a similar rate to QB's.. it's just that they are O-linemen, so fans don't remember them ( and also, because so much less cash is tied up in them).I'm not advocating teams stretch on QBs, I'm just saying I understand the ones that do.. I don't understand taking an Alex smith first over all.. but I do understand taking a physical talent like Jamarcus Russell first over all, because his upside was so tremendous.. it just turns out that he's terrible.. but so are many other players at many other positions. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Also, Josh Freeman is going to be this year's bust. Luckily they only took him at 17. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I get that.. I just figure that maybe NFL fans are sophisticated enough nowadays to understand that setting yourself up at LT for 10 years is more important than gambling on a marginal/risky QB prospect, regardless of how big the name is.yeah, but people say that stuff as if LT's never bust. Tony Manderich is considered by many to be one of the biggest busts of all time. I don't have the 1st round QB verse Offensive Tackle bust chart infront of me, but I would wager that 1st round offensive linemen (and all other positions) crap out at a similar rate to QB's.. it's just that they are O-linemen, so fans don't remember them ( and also, because so much less cash is tied up in them).I'm not advocating teams stretch on QBs, I'm just saying I understand the ones that do.. I don't understand taking an Alex smith first over all.. but I do understand taking a physical talent like Jamarcus Russell first over all, because his upside was so tremendous.. it just turns out that he's terrible.. but so are many other players at many other positions. Link to post Share on other sites
grocery_mony 8 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Robert Gallery was another horrible Raiders pick. 2nd overall and Larry Fitzgerald went 3, Rivers 4th, Sean Taylor 5th. Ben Rothlisberger went 13th. The year Alex Smith went #1 the whole first round sucked. Ware and Merriman were the only real stand outs Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Robert Gallery was another horrible Raiders pick. 2nd overall and Larry Fitzgerald went 3, Rivers 4th, Sean Taylor 5th. Ben Rothlisberger went 13th. The year Alex Smith went #1 the whole first round sucked. Ware and Merriman were the only real stand outsRobery Gallery is the best offensive lineman the Raiders have--which might not be saying much. He also played for how many Offensive Line/Offensive Coordinators and played how many positions in how many years? Guy's had the deck stacked against him the whole time. Link to post Share on other sites
grocery_mony 8 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Robery Gallery is the best offensive lineman the Raiders have--which might not be saying much. He also played for how many Offensive Line/Offensive Coordinators and played how many positions in how many years? Guy's had the deck stacked against him the whole time.He was horible at LT Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 I don't know who is right or who is wrong, I'm guessing my original point was wrong. I'm wrong a lot. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 He was horible at LTOh..okay. Link to post Share on other sites
grocery_mony 8 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Oh..okay.Anytime you take an OT 2nd overall in a draft that deep and they arent a perenial pro bowler I think thats gotta be concidered a major bust. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Anytime you take an OT 2nd overall in a draft that deep and they arent a perenial pro bowler I think thats gotta be concidered a major bust.I disagree that he's been that terrible, in the first place. In 2004, he started 15 games at right tackle and gave up 3 Sacks. In 2005, he started all 16 games at right tackle and gave up 3.5 Sacks. The Raiders moved him to left tackle at the beginning of the 2006 preseason. In the Raiders' first game of the 2006 regular season, Gallery was part of an offensive line that gave up nine sacks (at least 3 charged to him) to the San Diego Chargers. He played 10 games on the season, and gave up 10.5 Sacks on the season, placing him 4th in most sacks given up, despite missing 6 games. In 2007, Oakland coaches moved Gallery to left guard.So the guy gave up 6.5 sacks in 31 games his first two years and then just devolved into a horrific pass blocker..? Huh? I'm not saying he's performed up to expectations(though I think he performed well initially). What I'm saying is that the disarray and absolute garbage that the franchise has become contributes to his inability to continue to develop and/or become that perennial pro-bowler. He went from left tackle to right tackle back to left tackle and the to left guard, played under 4 different head coaches, 4 different offensive coordinators, 4 different offensive line coaches and played 4 different offenses and schemes in 5 years. He's actually playing pretty well now, though and I think he's found a home at left guard. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Robery Gallery is the best offensive lineman the Raiders have--which might not be saying much. He also played for how many Offensive Line/Offensive Coordinators and played how many positions in how many years? Guy's had the deck stacked against him the whole time.Yeah, he's good now that they moved him to guard.. but you don't take an offensive guard with the second over all pick. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I don't know who is right or who is wrong, I'm guessing my original point was wrong. I'm wrong a lot.don't worry about it king.. the world needs ditch diggers too. Link to post Share on other sites
DrawingDeadInDM 0 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah, he's good now that they moved him to guard.. but you don't take an offensive guard with the second over all pick.He did well at tackle his first two seasons and might've/probably would've continued to do well if they had some semblance of continuity. Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEgood thing Ochocinco didn't get a TD. If he got one and jumped in the black hole he woulda got cut. Link to post Share on other sites
rcooj_7 0 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEgood thing Ochocinco didn't get a TD. If he got one and jumped in the black hole he woulda got cut.I guess I will finally find myself posting in this thread.... gg raiders, I love you! Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 BRUCE GRADKOWSKI Link to post Share on other sites
kers2 0 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Awesome win!!! Over the hated Steelers!!! Link to post Share on other sites
GeneralGeeWhiz 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 this just in: lincecum to become raiders QBsrsly tho, wtf timmy? Link to post Share on other sites
RISEorFall 0 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 this just in: lincecum to become raiders QBcouldnt hurt. though I think id rather Randy Johnson be my QB, he looks like he might punch someone if they tried to blitz him. but isnt he a san fran guy? is that your wtf? Link to post Share on other sites
GeneralGeeWhiz 0 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 couldnt hurt. though I think id rather Randy Johnson be my QB, he looks like he might punch someone if they tried to blitz him. but isnt he a san fran guy? is that your wtf? ya. im a die hard niners fan and would prefer him to wear a niners jersey. but im not like a bunch of the bay area raider haters. i cant help but feel bad for them. Link to post Share on other sites
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