2009-2010 Miami Dolphins Official Thread

[dolfan 0]

Being up by 13 is better than being up by 12 if you hold them to a TD/FG/FG? That way you are still tied I guess.

True enough, but there was less than nine minutes left in the game when the Dolphins scored that touchdown. That's an extreme lack of confidence in both your offense and defense if you think the Jets will have three more chances to score.

[CaneBrain 95]

Putting the Ted Ginn stuff aside, here's something that really bothered me yesterday and I haven't heard anyone talk about it yet:Why the hell did Miami go for two after scoring to go up 30-19? If you kick the extra point, you're up by 12. That means the Jets have to score two touchdowns, no matter what. If you're successful on the two-point conversion, you're up by 13 and the Jets have to score two touchdowns, no matter what. What's the difference here?As it turned out, Miami was unsuccessful and the Jets could have tied the game with a touchdown, a two-point conversion, and a field goal...and this wasn't too far from happening. The Jets actually converted a two-point conversion after their next touchdown that was called back because of illegal motion or something. Then on the next drive they were down at the 15-yard-line and could have had a very make-able field goal if they only needed a tie. I guess when the team wins people don't focus on stuff like this, but what am I missing here?

it's a mistake plain and simple. your analysis is correct. They were due a break or two after the Saints game (Saints just got a monster phantom def. holding call in their favor against the falcons....big shock) and they got several to beat the Jets. The Jets are 4-5 in their last 9 games mainly due to an 0-3 mark against the Dolphins. Love it.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

it's not a mistake... it was by the chart

[CaneBrain 95]

it's not a mistake... it was by the chart

then it is a stupid chart. There is no difference between 12 and 13 in that situation. Either way it requires the Jets to score two touchdowns. However an 11 point lead leaves the possibility that the Jets can tie the game with just a TD and a FG (with a 2pt thrown in). Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

[Jadaki 0]

I'm looking forward to the Dan Lebetard show tomorrow to here what they say about Ginn.

Start of the show, celebrating Ted Ginn day... they so don't disappoint.

[dolfan 0]

it's not a mistake... it was by the chart

then it is a stupid chart. There is no difference between 12 and 13 in that situation. Either way it requires the Jets to score two touchdowns. However an 11 point lead leaves the possibility that the Jets can tie the game with just a TD and a FG (with a 2pt thrown in). Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

Yeah, I mean I understand the TD/FG/FG argument from a technical standpoint, but I just don't think it's realistic to think a team would have three more chances to score when there's nine minutes left. It probably would have had to involve recovering an onside kick and I really don't think you plan for that as a coach. Anyway, I just found it to be another questionable call for the second week in a row and thought I'd bring it up because it's my right as a sports fan and an American to second guess everything my teams do.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

I think BigD was mocking the chart that coaches live by because they can't think for themselves.That second return by Ginn was crazy good.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think BigD was mocking the chart that coaches live by because they can't think for themselves.That second return by Ginn was crazy good.

you're wrong, actually. i think charts are 100 percent the way to go. Have that shit figured out ahead of time, and then go to it, because in the heat of the moment, you have very little time to think about this sort of thing, and make a well thought out decision on your own. This charts are based on points, and also time left in the game, and they are figured out by statisticians, who's ability to reason the optimal strategy I trust more than a coach.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

you're wrong, actually. i think charts are 100 percent the way to go. Have that shit figured out ahead of time, and then go to it, because in the heat of the moment, you have very little time to think about this sort of thing, and make a well thought out decision on your own. This charts are based on points, and also time left in the game, and they are figured out by statisticians, who's ability to reason the optimal strategy I trust more than a coach.

I mean, it's not like football is a game of constant scoring. You can think ahead for yourself. My philosophy would be to just kick the extra point every time until about halfway through the 4th quarter. Then I only go for two if I'm down two or up one.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I mean, it's not like football is a game of constant scoring. You can think ahead for yourself. My philosophy would be to just kick the extra point every time until about halfway through the 4th quarter. Then I only go for two if I'm down two or up one.

yeah, you'd be taking the worst of it if you did that.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

yeah, you'd be taking the worst of it if you did that.

I don't really have a response to that.But it'd be nice if the coaches also had a similar chart that told them when to go for it on 4th down. I think it would look something like this:

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I don't really have a response to that.But it'd be nice if the coaches also had a similar chart that told them when to go for it on 4th down. I think it would look something like this:

Nothing in football tilts me more than coaches putting between the 40's, on forth and short. There's strong statistical evidence you should do it on like 4th and 5's.. but 4th and 1 is unforgivable. Every time I see a coach punt in that situation, instantly start rooting for the other team to win.

[Flushgarden 0]

So does anyone here think the fish will win tomorrow?

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

So does anyone here think the fish will win tomorrow?

I don't think they will win probably, but they certainly COULD win, and i don't think they should be 10 point dogs.. I think the money line looks tasty.

[CaneBrain 95]

So does anyone here think the fish will win tomorrow?

Going to have to agree with BigD. The line is a bit high but obviously the Pats are the favorites. Brady/Moss/Welker against two rookie CBs? Yikes!If Miami runs the ball well though, they will be in it. They are going to need someone on the D-line or an OLB to have a huge day pressuring Brady. That used to be Jason Taylor....maybe he will turn back the clock today.

[dolfan 0]

Hey, look who still can't catch the ball.

[CaneBrain 95]

Hey, look who still can't catch the ball.

it really is a shame for Chad Henne that he is saddled with the worst WR corps in the NFL. just a shame. Another game where the dolphins played well but couldnt get anything going in the air when it counted.in fairness, Ginn was just one of many Dolphins WRs who cant catch. Hartline had two, Bess had one. Camarillo is the only guy who gave the Dolphins anything today from the WR spot. I have no idea why Ginn would get to play another down at WR this season. It's enough already jesus. He's a kick returner, not a WR. Accept it.If the fins dont find some new WRs in the offseason, I cant really understand what Parcells is thinking. They could have had Boldin for a pick at anytime. He can catch.3-5 means they have to win out basically to make the playoffs (which is not happening). Could easily be 3-5.oh, and sparano punting with 5 minutes left in the game with 4 and 4 from the Pats 42 is an absolute chicken shit call. Complete puss out.

[dolfan 0]

in fairness, Ginn was just one of many Dolphins WRs who cant catch. Hartline had two, Bess had one.

Yeah, as a group they were horrible. I just had to single Ginn out because it came on an important fourth down. The funny thing, though, is that before they started that drive I actually said, "Alright, we're in perfect Teddy Ginn drop territory."

[CaneBrain 95]

other thoughts:1) it did not end up impacting the game but that last second FG in the first half by NE was complete horseshit. Nice hometown clock-keeping Patriots.2) That 10 minute drive to open the 2nd half was pretty awesome. The offense can look pretty good when the WRs catch the ball.3) The rookie corners did a great job overall. Moss burned Davis a couple times but who the ****'s idea was it to cover Moss one on one so much? Any corner would have been in trouble.4) It's always interesting to watch a Dolphins game. They basically ran the option to score a TD in the 2nd quarter. Pretty amazing.5) This is the best 3-5 team I have seen in a while. That's both good and bad. Three times now (Indy, NO, NE) Miami has had the ball with less than 3 minutes left and a chance to tie (NE) or win (Indy/NO) the game. All three times they did not even get close. They will never be more than an interesting but flawed team until they can throw the ball like an NFL club.6) The Patriots will win the AFC East but I feel like something is missing. I dont see them making too deep a run this year.

[Ron_Mexico 4,219]

it really is a shame for Chad Henne that he is saddled with the worst WR corps in the NFL. just a shame. Another game where the dolphins played well but couldnt get anything going in the air when it counted.in fairness, Ginn was just one of many Dolphins WRs who cant catch. Hartline had two, Bess had one. Camarillo is the only guy who gave the Dolphins anything today from the WR spot. I have no idea why Ginn would get to play another down at WR this season. It's enough already jesus. He's a kick returner, not a WR. Accept it.If the fins dont find some new WRs in the offseason, I cant really understand what Parcells is thinking. They could have had Boldin for a pick at anytime. He can catch.3-5 means they have to win out basically to make the playoffs (which is not happening). Could easily be 3-5.oh, and sparano punting with 5 minutes left in the game with 4 and 4 from the Pats 42 is an absolute chicken shit call. Complete puss out.

agree with all of this, but seriously, and I know our receivers aren't as good as theirs and our QB isn't as good as theirs, but can't we run some of those crossing routes? Or use the defense they use to defend our crossing routes? It seemed like the Pats ran those crossing routes all day and they were open all day? Why can't we run that? Our QB gets enough protection for that? Just confusing to me. We can't stop people quickly. Oh well, they're doing enough for us to see potential but not closing out. Why cant we get that crappy schedule, Bucs, Rams, Titans, etc? Or do we? I haven't checked the upcoming schedule. Problem is, our defense is shaky, and old. Ferguson, Porter, Taylor, etc.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I was so excited watching miami's 10 minute drive. I was watching 'cause the bears blood bath got switched to the GB-TB game. It was such a thing of beauty.... and then the pats turn around and score in 40 seconds, 'cause moss is god, and gave just a god like stiff arm. Is there anything more demoralizing than spending 10 minutes of ball control, pound your face offense, and then have the other team insta score, rending the drive meaningless? You guys might not go to the playoffs this year, but you should be happy that there's not a more entertaining non-playoff team in the league. You could be the chiefs or something.

[dolfan 0]

other thoughts:1) it did not end up impacting the game but that last second FG in the first half by NE was complete horseshit. Nice hometown clock-keeping Patriots.3) The rookie corners did a great job overall. Moss burned Davis a couple times but who the ****'s idea was it to cover Moss one on one so much? Any corner would have been in trouble.

1) That was BS. I was actually watching the clock as they lined up to run that last play and was thinking, "Sweet, the Pats are actually going to screw something up and run out of time."3) Yeah, considering the passing attack they faced I'd have to say I'm pretty happy with the job they did. I like that we're able to field a decent team with so many young guys getting experience so early in their careers.

Why cant we get that crappy schedule, Bucs, Rams, Titans, etc?

We got the crappy schedule last year. It lead to a lot of people thinking the Fins were better than they were and then getting housed in the first round of the playoffs. And actually the next few weeks aren't that scary.

You guys might not go to the playoffs this year, but you should be happy that there's not a more entertaining non-playoff team in the league. You could be the chiefs or something.

Funny you chose the Chiefs there. I have a buddy who's a Chiefs fan. Yesterday he sent me a text during the game that said, "Your team runs options and other college plays and they're infinitely better than my team. I hate them."

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

We got the crappy schedule last year. It lead to a lot of people thinking the Fins were better than they were and then getting housed in the first round of the playoffs. And actually the next few weeks aren't that scary.

Yeah, I don't think the dolphfins were as good as people thought they were last year, or as bad as they appear to be this year. It's rare on a team that I think WR's are actually the difference, as there are only a handful of truly great WR's, and the rest are what I think of as "situationally" good, they are excelling in the system they are in, but in another system would be just average. I think most starting WR's are about the same. But Miami legitimately has bad starting WR's. They legitly can't catch.

Funny you chose the Chiefs there. I have a buddy who's a Chiefs fan. Yesterday he sent me a text during the game that said, "Your team runs options and other college plays and they're infinitely better than my team. I hate them."

I assume his hate is aimed to the chiefs. It's not really that funny.. I live in Lincoln, Ne and and they always show the chief game, every week. Even when they were good in the 90's I didn't like them or care about them. But christ on crack, the AFC games they show these days are putrid. Fortunately one of the CBS stations went away from the cheifs and showed the Mia-Pats game.A combination of the style of offense ( they ran a triple option on sunday which made me call one of my Nebraska football friends, and reminiscence about the good ole days), Ronnie Brown and Rickey Williams carrying my fantasy team, and me listening to Dan Lebatard every day has made me adopt Miami as my number 2 rooting interest team. In some ways, the number 2 team is more fun to root for than your number 1. The bears I'm too emotionally invested in.. close games just kill me, life and death. Their failures tilt me. your number 2, you have no emotional investment. You can just purely enjoy the team, and if they win, that's gravy, and if they lose, you won't lose sleep. I took the cardinals as my number 2 last year early in the season when Warner saved my fantasy football year single handedly ( I picked Brady in the first round, warner in the final round). And it was a pure gravy train of root all year round. I suggest you miami guys start looking for a fun number 2 team for some root. I think the saints would be an excellent choice. Fun team to watch and it's a good story. Long suffering franchise from a recently suffering town and what not. They aren't a historical jack ass team, no reason NOT to root for them. Getting a little saints root on will take some sting out of Ted ginn's iron hands.

[JoeyJoJo 18]

oh, and sparano punting with 5 minutes left in the game with 4 and 4 from the Pats 42 is an absolute chicken shit call. Complete puss out.

Should've consulted my chart.

Getting a little saints root on will take some sting out of Ted ginn's iron hands.

I read an article about the Saints receivers a week or two ago. It said that during practice they only have enough time to practice a handful of the routes in their playbook, so everyday after practice Brees and all of the receivers stick around and practice all of their routes. Every route, every day, on their own time. It also mentioned one receiver in particular (I forget who now) who was on the practice squad for three years because he had a problem with drops. Now he just plays catch whenever he can with whoever he can. If he's at home or at a friend's house or wherever; he just gets a guy to throw to him. Even during games when their defense is on the field he'll have someone throw to him all the time.It kind of makes you wonder if Miami did this as well, how much would they improve?Note: I suppose it's possible that they do in fact do this and it's just not publicized because they suck.

[CaneBrain 95]

Yeah, I don't think the dolphfins were as good as people thought they were last year, or as bad as they appear to be this year. It's rare on a team that I think WR's are actually the difference, as there are only a handful of truly great WR's, and the rest are what I think of as "situationally" good, they are excelling in the system they are in, but in another system would be just average. I think most starting WR's are about the same. But Miami legitimately has bad starting WR's. They legitly can't catch. A combination of the style of offense ( they ran a triple option on sunday which made me call one of my Nebraska football friends, and reminiscence about the good ole days), Ronnie Brown and Rickey Williams carrying my fantasy team, and me listening to Dan Lebatard every day has made me adopt Miami as my number 2 rooting interest team. In some ways, the number 2 team is more fun to root for than your number 1. The bears I'm too emotionally invested in.. close games just kill me, life and death. Their failures tilt me. your number 2, you have no emotional investment. You can just purely enjoy the team, and if they win, that's gravy, and if they lose, you won't lose sleep. I took the cardinals as my number 2 last year early in the season when Warner saved my fantasy football year single handedly ( I picked Brady in the first round, warner in the final round). And it was a pure gravy train of root all year round. I suggest you miami guys start looking for a fun number 2 team for some root. I think the saints would be an excellent choice. Fun team to watch and it's a good story. Long suffering franchise from a recently suffering town and what not. They aren't a historical jack ass team, no reason NOT to root for them. Getting a little saints root on will take some sting out of Ted ginn's iron hands.

I am glad you finally came around on Miami's WRs. I agree that usually how wideouts do is more about the system and the QB and the quality of the pass defense faced. However, Miami legitimately has a bad WR corps. Thats a very fixable problem.I agree that Miami is a very fun team to watch. And I knew coming into this season that the schedule was probably too ridiculous to overcome. All five of their losses are to playoff teams (and other than Atlanta all the losses were to "dangerous" playoff teams). They are getting shredded in Pass D but most of that damage came against Brady, Brees and Manning. That will happen. However, the Dolphins historically have almost never been "bad." They finally were bad under Cam Cameron but Parcells and Co. fixed that in like 3 months. Things could be a lot worse. I am happiest that Chad Henne looks great. I mean as great as a 2nd year QB can look when he is throwing to a group of stone-hands. It looks like the decision to pass on Matt Ryan wont be fatal. Look at the last two drafts for Miami.....here are the guys getting significant playing time (and playing at least average or better):Jake Long (1st), Philip Merling (2nd), Chad Henne (2nd), Kendall Langford (3rd), Donald Thomas (6th), Davone Bess (UFA), Vontae Davis (1st), Pat White (2nd), Sean Smith (2nd), Chris Clemons (5th). Thats a franchise left tackle, a promising QB, two promising d-lineman, a starting RG, an ok possession WR, two really good looking rookie CBs, a backup QB who does some things, and a safety who is just starting to get on the field. That is an amazing haul for two drafts. And I am sure I am forgetting someone.I already have a #2 team (the Giants who I will love forever for winning the 2007 Super Bowl). Sadly, they are falling apart at the seams right now.