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Nimue1995

Asking Prayers From Those Who Pray Please

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No, sir. What is important is that the things you believe contradict other things you believe.The only way out is either: 1. "well, fuzzy definitions yadda yadda yadda", which is just people in your position refusing to be clear in their statements because they either consciously or subconsciously know there is inherent contradiction in the nonsense they attach themselves too, or 2. "Yes, it is impossible to OUR logic, but GOD is waaaayyyy smarter lol lol." Which is, of course, an attempt at a get out of jail free card. Unfortunately, when it comes to logic, that card doesn't play... because no god, yours or any other, no devil or ghost, no alien, on this planet or on any other, in heaven or in hell, can ever make two logical contradictions exist simultaneously. Anyone who disagrees with the latter is either lying to protect their position, woefully ignorant about the processes and structure of the faculty that allows them to live and pragmatically exist in society, or insane.
ok.

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Well, that's why I used the word... but it also could imply that sin was his choice or his plan... which would obviously be incorrect. That's why 'plan' should have been replaced with a better word.
Either he didn't know that we would sin (and is therefore not omniscient), or he knew that we would sin when he gave us free will and it was therefore his choice/plan.

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Either he didn't know that we would sin (and is therefore not omniscient), or he knew that we would sin when he gave us free will and it was therefore his choice/plan.
I fully understand your point. I just happen to very respectfully disagree.Just because he knew what a certain person would choose doesn't mean he controlled their actions. Romans 9 explains it nicely.Basically it states that God knew that some people would choose to ignore him, but that that would be able to serve as a reminder to the believers that God was merciful in providing a way for people to be absolved from their sin.

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I fully understand your point. I just happen to very respectfully disagree.Just because he knew what a certain person would choose doesn't mean he controlled their actions. Romans 9 explains it nicely.Basically it states that God knew that some people would choose to ignore him, but that that would be able to serve as a reminder to the believers that God was merciful in providing a way for people to be absolved from their sin.
Yeah I get that... I'm not saying he controlled their actions, just that he is still responsible given that he caused it all. For instance, if I bloody someone up and then throw them in the shark infested waters, even though its the shark that chooses to eat that person I'm responsible. I knew what was going to happen when I threw them in there, even though I didn't control the shark. If I design an organism to have a strong desire for sex, and then I dangle naked attractive bodies in front of them, I can expect a certain portion of them to go for it. After all, I designed them to want to. And since I set this whole situation up, it would be disingenuous for me to say that some of them going for it was not part of my plan. Personally I find it a bit rude to design someone with a desire for something and then punish them for acting on it. Ohhh you're just testing us? That's kind of a dick move isn't it?

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Yeah I get that... I'm not saying he controlled their actions, just that he is still responsible given that he caused it all. For instance, if I bloody someone up and then throw them in the shark infested waters, even though its the shark that chooses to eat that person I'm responsible. I knew what was going to happen when I threw them in there, even though I didn't control the shark. If I design an organism to have a strong desire for sex, and then I dangle naked attractive bodies in front of them, I can expect a certain portion of them to go for it. After all, I designed them to want to. And since I set this whole situation up, it would be disingenuous for me to say that some of them going for it was not part of my plan. Personally I find it a bit rude to design someone with a desire for something and then punish them for acting on it. Ohhh you're just testing us? That's kind of a dick move isn't it?
But God totally designed sex and wants it to be fun and awesome.... but just in the confines of a marriage. Also, the shark analogy, while funny, isn't really spot on. God is trying to save us... not kill us.

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For instance, if I bloody someone up and then throw them in the shark infested waters, even though its the shark that chooses to eat that person I'm responsible. I knew what was going to happen when I threw them in there, even though I didn't control the shark.
It's worse than that. You bloody someone up then throw them in the shark infested waters that you created, even though it's the shark that "chooses" to eat that person, the shark that you've created with the instinct to eat that person, knowing it was going to happen when you created the person, the blood, the water, the shark, and the act of eating... you are definitely still fucking responsible. God this whole argument is so retarded that only religion or clinical delusion can even make it an issue.The argument that a persons god is all powerful and all knowing and created everything makes any argument of "free will" LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.This is not "my logic." It is not "human logic". It is a priori and cannot be any other way in this or any other world. No god can overcome it. To say otherwise is to abandon the only fucking instrument you have to sanely exist in the world, and if someone were to actually go about thought in ANY OTHER WAY it would have them eating their own shit while masturbating with the corpse of a frog as they starve to death from eating only the color 12 through their hair.

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Personally I find it a bit rude to design someone with a desire for something and then punish them for acting on it. Ohhh you're just testing us? That's kind of a dick move isn't it?
Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift, and then what does He do, I swear for his own amusement, his own private, cosmic gag reel, He sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch, but don't taste. Taste, don't swallow. Haha! And while you're jumpin' from one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughin' His sick, fuckin' ass off! He's a tight-ass! He's a SADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that? NEVER!

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But God totally designed sex and wants it to be fun and awesome.... but just in the confines of a marriage.
You don't see the contradiction here?

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If you follow your beliefs enough not to engage in premarital sex, does this mean you also do not masturbate? Just curious, because I for one would not enjoy life very much without the ability to rub one out whenever the feeling hits me.A friend of mine from High School takes this view, and has real problems keeping himself from jerking off (which I would to if I felt like limiting myself), but I find it hilarious that his religions wants him to try.

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But it can help you make lots of babbies to indoctrine with your beliefs.Indoctrin...ate?
Cross thread points noted.
If you follow your beliefs enough not to engage in premarital sex, does this mean you also do not masturbate? Just curious, because I for one would not enjoy life very much without the ability to rub one out whenever the feeling hits me.A friend of mine from High School takes this view, and has real problems keeping himself from jerking off (which I would to if I felt like limiting myself), but I find it hilarious that his religions wants him to try.
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But it can help you make lots of babbies to indoctrine with your beliefs.Indoctrin...ate?
They have free will Speedz. I can't make them believe the truth!

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