A Q In Early Position

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Not a big hand. Just wanted to check my line here.Very loose table. Live $2/$5 TxNL "Michigan Charity" Room.Hero: Generally a pretty Standard TAG Player, but tonight have been playing a bit LAGgy. The table seems to be gunning for me.Villain: A bit loose. I have what seems to be a pretty good read on him and have gotten away with a couple of steals against him as well as calling him down with nothing better than top pair and being good.Preflop:I see AQ from early Position. Open to $15Fold to Villain who callsFlop: Hero Check Villain CheckTurn: Hero Check Villain CheckI know, I know "Holy Passivity Batman"River: Hero Check Villain Bet $25At this point I put the Villain on a missed Flush or Straight Draw or weak Ace. Any pocket Pair would have been a raise preflop. No way he has a 10 or he would have raised on the Flop/Turn. No way he has a 2. Only card that scares me at all is a 9 and I really don't think so because I really think he is on the FD and/or SD. I'll post results later.Hero?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I'd bet at least one of these streets. If you think your c-bet will get no respect due to your image, and open you up to too many floats, I don't mind checking the flop. I think you absolutely need to bet the turn when it blanks though.At this point I think you need to call and expect a lot of chops, occasionally losing to a small pp that couldn't pull the trigger on the turn, and occasionally scooping from K or Q high. Re-popping is so gross and I don't think you'll get a ton of credit doing it.Also, it would help to know the suits of your cards, particularly the ace

[qnshustler 0]

At this point I put the Villain on a missed Flush or Straight Draw or weak Ace. Any pocket Pair would have been a raise preflop. No way he has a 10 or he would have raised on the Flop/Turn. No way he has a 2. Only card that scares me at all is a 9 and I really don't think so because I really think he is on the FD and/or SD. I'll post results later.Hero?

I agree that you pretty much have to call. Not sure I understand why you're putting villain specifically on any sort of missed draw, I mean niether of you has shown any interest in the pot on flop or turn so it seems pretty arbitrary to assign him a hand like that. I think most hands that beat you would have bet by the turn so calling here and expecting a chop is fine, IMO.EDIT: Also feel that you really need to bet turn.

[NoBBiR 0]

I bet the flop. Paired boards are always good for cbets.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Good analysis & feedback guys. I appreciate it.

Also, it would help to know the suits of your cards, particularly the ace

Good point.Not 100%, but I know they were both Red and unsuited. I think it was

[trystero 0]

I like the hand as played; I call thoIf we bet any postflop street is it as a bluff or for value? Basically to bluff we'll need to commit two barrels to the hand, and I'm not crazy about doing that given our image. If we only fire one shell then he never folds better, and he folds cards which totally miss. I wouldn't rule out the opportunity of him floating, either.

[mtdesmoines 3]

At this point I put the Villain on a missed Flush or Straight Draw or weak Ace.

He didn't act in this hand at all. What makes you think he had a flush draw?What makes you think he had whatever you think he had? I can't see any indication of the villain's hand whatsoever.If he steals, this is a call. If he doesn't I fold.

[tskillz187 0]

Flop check is usually good, 10109 two tone is a very drawy board and probably hit a lot of a calling range. Cbetting there is lighting money on fire most of the time. Turn is a complete blanko, I'd probably check and call a bet depending on villain, your hand is weak but has show down value, if you had something like 56 you'd need to bet turn. Also, I think if you decide to bet turn you need to bet turn and bet river. Betting the turn and shutting down accomplishes nothing and betting turn only gets folds from worse hands and calls from better.Once turn goes check/check your hand is usually good. He should be betting a 9 once checked to twice and would be scared of an over card hitting. He may have something like 33-88 here. Once the river comes I think he has 66-88 a lot, sometimes A high thinking it's good and not thinking that you can't call with a worse hand, and then bluffs.It comes down to villain but against most standard villains I'd fold. If he's decent he should know that you have exactly A high and can value bet any pocket pair. You're basically resigned to guessing when even if you're right you're chopping a lot.I think you played the hand fine though. betting flop is bad, betting turn and not bettign river would be bad, so checking it down is fine.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Thanks for al of the input Guys.

Flop check is usually good, 10109 two tone is a very drawy board and probably hit a lot of a calling range. Cbetting there is lighting money on fire most of the time. Turn is a complete blanko, I'd probably check and call a bet depending on villain, your hand is weak but has show down value, if you had something like 56 you'd need to bet turn. Also, I think if you decide to bet turn you need to bet turn and bet river. Betting the turn and shutting down accomplishes nothing and betting turn only gets folds from worse hands and calls from better.Once turn goes check/check your hand is usually good. He should be betting a 9 once checked to twice and would be scared of an over card hitting. He may have something like 33-88 here. Once the river comes I think he has 66-88 a lot, sometimes A high thinking it's good and not thinking that you can't call with a worse hand, and then bluffs.It comes down to villain but against most standard villains I'd fold. If he's decent he should know that you have exactly A high and can value bet any pocket pair. You're basically resigned to guessing when even if you're right you're chopping a lot.I think you played the hand fine though. betting flop is bad, betting turn and not bettign river would be bad, so checking it down is fine.

This is very similar to my line of thought. So clearly I like it!

He didn't act in this hand at all. What makes you think he had a flush draw?What makes you think he had whatever you think he had? I can't see any indication of the villain's hand whatsoever.If he steals, this is a call. If he doesn't I fold.

My current thinking and thought process may be a little "results based" revision of actual thought process, but I put him on a draw because he was pretty loose passive in that he will check/call a lot with a draw, but won't really take the initiative to bet a Draw, even a big draw. So by him calling preflop and then checking behind I put him on a non-made hand. When he bet the River I figured it was a missed draw and he was stabbing at a steal.Bottom Line:Doesn't sound like I butchered the hand or was completely out of line in my analysis. Perhaps a stab of my own on the Turn would have been preferred by some.I decided that I'd go with my read that he was stealing and called. I just really didn't put him on a PP of any kind and no Trips either. So I pretty much expected to Chop or Take it with my Ace.I showed first and he mucked saying he missed his FD. We were pretty friendly, so I believed he was telling the truth on the missed FD.

[KingJames 11]

Flop check is usually good, 10109 two tone is a very drawy board and probably hit a lot of a calling range. Cbetting there is lighting money on fire most of the time. Turn is a complete blanko, I'd probably check and call a bet depending on villain, your hand is weak but has show down value, if you had something like 56 you'd need to bet turn. Also, I think if you decide to bet turn you need to bet turn and bet river. Betting the turn and shutting down accomplishes nothing and betting turn only gets folds from worse hands and calls from better.

Okay, if we check the flop, and then bet the turn. Are we repping a T/9/over-pair? As if we were going for a check raise on the flop, villain didn't bite and now we're making sure to get some value?Also, if we have a 56 type hand, and we bet turn and get called, are you planning to barrel the river?

[tskillz187 0]

Okay, if we check the flop, and then bet the turn. Are we repping a T/9/over-pair? As if we were going for a check raise on the flop, villain didn't bite and now we're making sure to get some value?Also, if we have a 56 type hand, and we bet turn and get called, are you planning to barrel the river?

Nah we're not repping any of that stuff. We're much more repping a weakish made hand such as 33-88 or AK/AQ. Depending on villain we could also occasionally have trips and straight/flush draws.The reason we don't bet AK/AQ on the turn is because nothing worse calls and our hand has showdown value against his cards. With 56 we have no showdown value so we can either give up or bet turn and river, he'll fold his weakest range on turn, but will probably call with A high and pocket pairs, those hands will fold to two barrels most of the time. Firing one barrel and quitting is lighting money on fire.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Nah we're not repping any of that stuff. We're much more repping a weakish made hand such as 33-88 or AK/AQ. Depending on villain we could also occasionally have trips and straight/flush draws.The reason we don't bet AK/AQ on the turn is because nothing worse calls and our hand has showdown value against his cards. With 56 we have no showdown value so we can either give up or bet turn and river, he'll fold his weakest range on turn, but will probably call with A high and pocket pairs, those hands will fold to two barrels most of the time. Firing one barrel and quitting is lighting money on fire.

FWIW I think most pocket pairs are going to bet the flop when checked to, so the bolded contradiction confuses me. Not that a pocket pair can't check behind, it's just going to check behind less frequently than air. I also think we can include a lot of non- ace draws that are pairless in his turn calling range.Firing one barrel and then checking the river may cause us to have to make some thin calls, but those are calls I feel can be made on a lot of river cards, and has more value than turning our hand into a complete bluff by doubling. I actually think I'd go for a C-C even if I hit my ace or queen on the river.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

The reason I posted this hand is I think it represents a minor leak in my Game. I am good at extracting value from my big hands. I am very good at getting off of hands when I know I'm beat. I don't overplay hands like AK AQ or middle pairs or weak Aces or TPTK. But I think I often leave value behind on hands that I have some show-down value like this. Often on a hand like this I will wilt away to any aggression such as the bet on the River. On this particular night I really felt like I was in the "zone" and made some very good decisions. While I was happy with the reslts of my decision making on this hand and others on this evening, I also wanted to be sure I didn't just subscribe to results based thinking.Thanks for everyone's input.

[KingJames 11]

Nah we're not repping any of that stuff. We're much more repping a weakish made hand such as 33-88 or AK/AQ. Depending on villain we could also occasionally have trips and straight/flush draws.The reason we don't bet AK/AQ on the turn is because nothing worse calls and our hand has showdown value against his cards. With 56 we have no showdown value so we can either give up or bet turn and river, he'll fold his weakest range on turn, but will probably call with A high and pocket pairs, those hands will fold to two barrels most of the time. Firing one barrel and quitting is lighting money on fire.

good post, Ty. I never really think of ak/aq in terms as having unimproved showdown value...I has no pears but could still have the bestest hand!

[tskillz187 0]

FWIW I think most pocket pairs are going to bet the flop when checked to, so the bolded contradiction confuses me. Not that a pocket pair can't check behind, it's just going to check behind less frequently than air. I also think we can include a lot of non- ace draws that are pairless in his turn calling range.Firing one barrel and then checking the river may cause us to have to make some thin calls, but those are calls I feel can be made on a lot of river cards, and has more value than turning our hand into a complete bluff by doubling. I actually think I'd go for a C-C even if I hit my ace or queen on the river.

If you are villain here when you see a flop of 9TT two toned and you hold an underpair these thoughts should go through your head, "My hand is very weak but has unimproved showdown value, my hand is also unlikely to improve. In situations where I have a weak to middle strength hand I want to keep the pot as small as possible and try to show it down." Orrrrrrrrrr "I have a weak made hand here. EP raised pf so he probably has big face cards or a pocket pair himself. I can try to showdown a hand cheap here, but it's often no good anyways, I can rep a veryyyy strong range by betting, but if I do this I need to bet flop, turn, and river, and go balls to the wall trying to get him to fold overpairs."I do the 2nd thought process a lot, but I play 200bbs deep and am a little crazy. The first thought process is much more standard play. Betting the flop with your underpairs is a pretty bad way to play the hand because you don't want to bloat pots with weak hands with showdown value. There's a very small amount of merit to betting "for protection" but I don't like it in this situation. Betting the turn in position on a non-scare card is fine.I would think non-ace draws are much morel ikely to bet the flop than pocket pairs. That's considering the opponent is reasonable. Bad opponents do all sorts of bad things, but betting underpairs on this board and checking draws is completely backwards.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

these thoughts should go through your head

Indeed

Villain: A bit loose. I have what seems to be a pretty good read on him and have gotten away with a couple of steals against him as well as calling him down with nothing better than top pair and being good.

I guess I just don't give this type of read that type of creditAll fine points tskillz, I just think you're giving this guy too much brainpower credit

[IAGTTAYM 0]

I've never played live, but I think villain is more likely to bluff flop/turn then the river, so I would fold to the river bet as played.