Nl Internet Kids And Horse

[Poker Addict 0]

still a chance of a set as well for him, but I agree of not folding at this point. Since we gone this far. it's hard to call but your money already committed into the pot

VB, let this account GOOOO!!!!! its over. WP, GG, ETC......

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Math on 3rd street:300 in the pot, you have to call 75 more. That's 4-1 odds on 3rd street. You have the worst hand, but it's worth throwing in the 75 when you have a deuce up.

[Poker Addict 0]

We'll assume you raise with Jacks full, what do you do if he re-raises you again? Do you call or make it 4 bets?

I am assuming the best hand here and making it 4 bets. I think that I have the best hand more often than not here so in the long run that is a bet for value.But Im drunk!!!!!!!!!so, call or that extra bet, doesnt make much difference at this point as there are like a brazillion bets in that pot.

[Poker Addict 0]

Adam is a homo....but I might have meant that phil or jeff is... or maybe tyler (well, thats obvious!)of course steve might be.but we are all the same person, so we might all be teh ghey.

[FARGOpokerND 22]

Adam is a homo....but I might have meant that phil or jeff is... or maybe tyler (well, thats obvious!)of course steve might be.but we are all the same person, so we might all be teh ghey.

This thread is teh gay!

[rcgs59 15]

Factoring it all in, with my dead jack out, I'd lay it down on 6th street. The kid called. Now on the river... BINK! He catches the Jack! The player with K-J-10-10 showing bets on 7th street. We'll assume you raise with Jacks full, what do you do if he re-raises you again? Do you call or make it 4 bets?

then the assumption is if he is reraising he has K,T hidden, got to go with that at the most possible choicethen I would just call, because we have gone this far but not risk the 4 bet.or pocket 10,10's he would of raised on 5th? giving him quadsthe pocket KK ruled out which he would of raised on 3rd or 5thomg Daniel talk about the thinking process, glad I would of folded lol j/jglad you are doing this because it does really make you think your playing over. You do need to do this more often. It is awesome, getting us to really think it through all the possibilities. Thanks for doing this

[Balloon guy 158]

The King hand feels more like a flush to me than kings up. He didn't re-raise on 3rd street, and some players would try to move the Queen out of the pot there to take it heads up against three babies as a favorite. Not saying that's right (we'll leave that for another day) but it's a common play in that spot from split kings. He didn't re-raise on 3, and he'd never re-raise on 3 with a three flush because a hand like that plays better with more players in the pot. Factoring it all in, with my dead jack out, I'd lay it down on 6th street. The kid called. Now on the river... BINK! He catches the Jack! The player with K-J-10-10 showing bets on 7th street. We'll assume you raise with Jacks full, what do you do if he re-raises you again? Do you call or make it 4 bets?

My first thought is that a reraise is a bad option.If he is flushed or straight he wouldn't raise what looks to be a low since he has high locked in his mind.he is only reraising with a fh, more times of which are going to be Kings since a 10 is dead.However that assumes he is a decent player. I've seen quite a few fools who cap with high only hands that are beat-able letting you scoop with disguised hands such as this. With the pure hidden factor I think a raise is in order.If he wins, he can use the money for lessonsIf he loses, then his first lesson was expensive, hope he learns

[DanielNegreanu 141]

When the high hand re-raises the low board that just raised him, his third bet is never, ever, ever, ever, ever a bluff. With that being a given, we have to figure out what he's raising us with here? He has to be a bit worried about Aces full no? If he is looking at a low board that raised him, he'll probably just call with KKK 10 10 or 10 10 10 K K. For him to 4 bet a board of 2-5-A-2 when the 2 played the hand SO strong on 3rd street, he should generally be worried about 2222 or AAA22. If I had the KKK 10 10 I wouldn't make it 3 bets there. No chance! It's a total donation to my opponents expected range (a made low or Aces full or better). You know what hand I WOULD re-raise him with? Yup. That's right, a straight flush. My man put in the 4th bet and paid off the last bet only to see the one and only hand he could really see- a King High Straight flush, made in 5. You have to really THINK in Stud 8, about people's motivation in a hand, and most importantly what their bets mean in relation to what your board is showing. Seriously. It may not seem like a terrible play to re-raise with Jacks full there, but against any half decent Stud 8 player it's just plain awful. He won't re-raise an A-2-5-2 board with Kings full, assuming that there is no real value there based on the 3rd street action. He should be up against quads or Aces full, or a low. That's literally it. So this example was played extremely bad and it all started with breaking a cardinal Stud 8 rule: the worst types of hands are the second best high hands. Now, I realize that I said the best option is to call on 3rd street, and it is based on the factors mentioned, but at the same time, for inexperienced players, folding on 3rd street will save them a lot of headaches. It's a very tough hand to play and you need to really know what you are doing. I call with it for sure, but I do so because of three things:1) The price2) The pair is hidden. I hit that J on 4 or 5 and I can win a monster.3) I have the only low card showing. That's a power card that cam give me control of the hand. I catch 4-5-6 or something to that effect I just win. Same scenario, K raises, Q calls, and I have split Jacks with a Deuce? I muck it. No concealed power and no scare card up. Calling with (J-2) J is bad, calling with (J-J) 2 is marginal, but ok if you know what you are doing. K, that was fun.

[DanielNegreanu 141]

Next Question PLO $25-$50: Short handed game you have a limper, then you call from the SB with 4-5s-7-8s. The big blind raises to $200, first guy folds... my man thought he should fold here and I just about choked! It's a pretty good hand to see a flop with. So you call. Flop Qh-6c-5s rainbow with one of your backdoor suits. You check the flop with bottom pair and a wrap straight draw, and he bets $250. This is a good spot to get it in, few hands he could have you crushed with, so you decide to semi-bluff and re-raise the pot another $700 to $950- he calls. Now you have $2350 in the pot, and left in front of you, you have about $5400 (your opponent has more). The turn is the 10h, and it's up to you. What do you do?A) Check and call.B) Bet the pot and call if raised.C) Bet about $1500 and call if raised.D) Bet about $1500 and fold if raised.

[Balloon guy 158]

A. pot control

[navybuttons 15]

E) check and raise.villain's range is too polarized toward AAxx and middle ds connectors. if we get a free card good.but there's like nothing in his range that can call.(or is this a crazy internet kid play?)

[no not baxter 0]

i would think u would either pot/call because thats what you would do with very strong made hands or c/c as long as ur c/c with like QQ too. But I think pot/calling is best

[no not baxter 0]

I actually think he should be checking back a very high majority of turns if we check, but do we get more value out of getting a free card or semi-bluffing?

[David_Nicoson 1]

Math on 3rd street:300 in the pot, you have to call 75 more. That's 4-1 odds on 3rd street. You have the worst hand, but it's worth throwing in the 75 when you have a deuce up.

I don't think the odds tell us anything unless we have something to compare it to.

[irishguy 14]

Stud Hand: I don't mind the call on third but am done with it on 5th. We ran out as good as expected but ran into very wet boards and I don't think we can run a successful bluff/catch a winning hand enough to justify sticking around. Greenstein had an interesting post a few months ago about people miscalculating odds in games like stud and looking at it as 4-1 on third as opposed to the equal bets you'll need to put in on following streets if you catch what you like. There are a ton of case where our board will run out like it has and the others will clearly pull brick cards - just not the case here.

[nutzbuster 7]

Next Question PLO $25-$50: Short handed game you have a limper, then you call from the SB with 4-5s-7-8s. The big blind raises to $200, first guy folds... my man thought he should fold here and I just about choked! It's a pretty good hand to see a flop with. So you call. Flop Qh-6c-5s rainbow with one of your backdoor suits. You check the flop with bottom pair and a wrap straight draw, and he bets $250. This is a good spot to get it in, few hands he could have you crushed with, so you decide to semi-bluff and re-raise the pot another $700 to $950- he calls. Now you have $2350 in the pot, and left in front of you, you have about $5400 (your opponent has more). The turn is the 10h, and it's up to you. What do you do?A) Check and call.B) Bet the pot and call if raised.C) Bet about $1500 and call if raised.D) Bet about $1500 and fold if raised.

B. It's all going in anyway....

[Vtlaxer09 4]

check/call. give up on blank river.ainec

[MaxStPolish 4]

I vote B) based on answers provided.Clearly better than the 1500 and call if raised I think.....because if you are intending to call, best to maximize FE by "betting as if"you truly hold QQ. Betting as if is paramount in PLO....and is actually a leak in my game i think. I don't have the stones to make that play. The other option is check and call. I think checking and calling is a dangerous game though, because it's a dry board right now, and you've allowed the villain to take control of the hand. He has position already, and now you'll be giving him the keys to the hand on the river. In reality, I would probably vote to check fold to a strong enough bet.

[Suited_Up 2]

I like B here I think.A. looks like we're giving up and may very well show our hand for what it is. If you do miss the river, there's a good chance he didn't, and you could be stuck totally giving up or bluffing into a big hand. Yeah, B sounds better.(I rarely play PLO to be fair.)

[Suited_Up 2]

check/call. give up on blank river.ainec

That's my 2nd choice. I find it hard to think it's not close though.

[Guardian Ekim 0]

OK let's walk through one of the hands he played: Stud 8 3 handed he is the bring in with (JJ) 2. A Ks completes and a Qc calls. What do you do there?

I'd probably fold because I've seen flushes win more often then not. However, if I were thinking in terms of No Limit Hold'Em, I also know that "Big Slick" is normally like a 50/50 shot. Lately, I've been trying to improve my Razz game. I like Razz because it's easy to get the low, generally crappy cards. So far, I do well at the start of a Razz tourney, and slowly dwindle down. I don't have any good strategy for the 7-card games yet... -Mike

[MaxStPolish 4]

If we were deeper, i could vouch for the bet 1500/fold if raised line I think.

[JSpencer 0]

I'd probably fold because I've seen flushes win more often then not. However, if I were thinking in terms of No Limit Hold'Em, I also know that "Big Slick" is normally like a 50/50 shot. Lately, I've been trying to improve my Razz game. I like Razz because it's easy to get the low, generally crappy cards. So far, I do well at the start of a Razz tourney, and slowly dwindle down. I don't have any good strategy for the 7-card games yet... -Mike

lol wat?

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

Ok, I'm going to preface this with the fact that I owe a ton to daniel. Over the limited discussions we've had, he's given me very timely advice. I wouldn't be posting this if I didn't think what he was saying right now was like trying to explain inducement bets vs regs at 5-10 HU no limit to someone right after you teach them what small and big blinds are. Advocating such a thin line here to someone who truly sucks at stud 8 is only going to confuse them more / make them worse.That said, a lot of people asked me to repost this here. It's blunt, but it's how I feel.I think daniel is out of his mind if he thinks his advice in it is actually applicable to a non-nosebleed game. He goes back and forth from making the assumptions that you can just magically win a bloated pot if you pick up a few low scare cards to advocating not betting when we hit the perfect scare cards for our hand. From hoping we can get some free cards to betting ourselves even though we know we're behind. WTF sir, WTF.I know he thinks stud 8 is his best game but basically he's just puffing up his chest and trying to be the daniel negreanu that knows what you ate for breakfast with his comments. When his argument boils down to playing the hand out, knowing you have to put in a ton of bets against the hands you're probably facing, hoping to bink a 2 outer that might not be good in an extremely marginal spot, I just kinda have to give up. If his comments are based on knowing the exact players in the hand and how they play, then discussing it in a vacuum is pretty pointless. If he's making decisions based on the current dynamic in the high stakes game described, then again, why try and say that the plays he's advocating are right or wrong with very little grey? I have no doubt at all that I've played more stud 8 in the last 3 years than he has, probably by a factor of 3-5x, and players at the low or mid stakes simply do not behave like he is saying they will. Since that's where damn near everyone on FCP plays, he's just confusing people with his advice.There's no question at all that Daniel is a way better mixed games player than I am (and I am a winning player), but I just hate how black and white he seems to think some of these decisions are. Maybe the line he's advocating (specifically the decision to play the hand at all) is profitable in this game, but it's not in most. I also want to reiterate the incorrect use of current odds on 3rd. It's very misreprestative of the true odds you are facing because of how many cards you have to see and probable bets you have to put in to know if the hand is developing in a way that fits your only profitable options. It's just plain bad math.

[whatgreatis 0]

DN is bad

I agree.