Temporary Nuts 1 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Another question: After say 4+ limpers have already entered the pot, would you advise against expanding your limping range from cutoff/button/sb positions to include lower suited aces and suited connector's down to, lets say, 56s? I am not asking about open-limping these from anywhere, only from these few positions after you get at least 3 or 4 limpers behind you.low suited connectors, like T9 and under, do not do well in multiway pots, so you should be avoiding playing these hands in large multiways in general. The reasoning is that even when you do make a hand, like a flush, or trips, frequently enough you will be making a second best hand that kills its profitability.It's ok to add suited aces I think, as long as you're not going crazy with a lone pair of aces... since again they will often be second best. I'd probably just shove any nut flush draw I flopped if I was doing that fwiw.Really this strategy is a basic guideline for those who are clueless as to how to beat these limits, and there are definitely other profitable situations that will arise, especially during the button/sb/bb dynamic, as long as you are aware of how to play them properly Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Sounds about right..thanks for the addendums. I definitely need to move my roll off bodog though. I hate the software and the 4-table max is a huge pain especially for using this strat in the micros. The play in general is just so loose/weak its like perfect for rewarding tight play.. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Sounds about right..thanks for the addendums. I definitely need to move my roll off bodog though. I hate the software and the 4-table max is a huge pain especially for using this strat in the micros. The play in general is just so loose/weak its like perfect for rewarding tight play..Hey at least they upgraded to 4 tables... when I played there it was 3 Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 So I decided to cash out of Bodog and throw some money on Stars so I could try out the zergling swarm properly. So far only been at it a couple hours (2318 hands) but its been a hard run. Over the first 700 or so hands I was pulling in 10bb/100, the middle 800-900 were break-even, but this last stretch has just been sickening coolers and bad beats that brought me all the way down to where I started. Over the entire stretch I've been running:vpip: 10.79pfr: 4.96wtsd: 25.52w$sd: 53.42af: 2.843bet: 2.3bb won/100: 0.14 :(The last hour or so I've lost big pots all in with:AK vs AA (all-in prf)QQ vs AA (all-in prf)QQ vs KK (all-in prf)QQ vs 55 (all-in prf)TT vs 66 (in on 9-high flop)TT vs K9s (he called all-in with flush draw, turned it)AJs vs A5 (I was behind his 2 pair when we got it in on flop)88 vs 77 (in on 5-high flop)JJ vs KK (all-in prf)JJ vs AK (all-in on 7-high flop, A on river)And well there's a bunch more that go the same way. I'm not crying about it, I know coolers and bad beats will happen, sometimes more than others, blah blah. Just wondering if you might notice anything from my stats up there that may stand out as a problem (besides the wretched w$sd which was a happy 67ish before the last hour). Thanks for the help, and if you think the sample is too small to tell much its fine I'll probably get back at it tomorrow and try to put in some more time. Link to post Share on other sites
babylondonks 5 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Stop thinking about all those beats or any of the short term stuff, it really inhibits your growth as a player. Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Stop thinking about all those beats or any of the short term stuff, it really inhibits your growth as a player.I know, I know I'm really not. Just wondering if I might be making any significant mistakes that I can try to weed out earlier rather than later. For example I know I'm guilty of limping in early positions with small pairs and folding them to raises, definitely hurting my bottom line. Going to make an adjustment to stop doing that when I play later. I'm probably playing a tad bit too many hands for this strategy to work properly but I'm not sure so I thought maybe that and other problems could be gleaned from my stats. Just want to catch all the leaks as early as I can, ya know. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 Over the entire stretch I've been running:vpip: 10.79pfr: 4.96Way too passive Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Way too passive...in that I should be coming in raising prf more often? Thought that might be a problem...in your experience would you expect to see a lower vpip, higher pfr, the two meeting somewhere in the middle...? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 yeah, pfr should almost = vpip. You're sitting on a short stack, so you're looking to be tight and then play for stacks cause you're hand will generally be better than villains, no? Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Reread OP and it still makes me laugh,Anyone else been running the Zerling?? Link to post Share on other sites
qnshustler 0 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Anyone else been running the Zerling??I took an indefinite break from it after I looked in the mirror the other day and wanted to punch myself in the nose. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Yeah, I can't get myself to sit <100bb Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Reread OP and it still makes me laugh,Anyone else been running the Zerling??I did. Lost like $1 4-tabling for a hour. Big pots...QQ>88. My first hand, he limp/raised from UTG when I was BBQThh<A7hh. I was sb, completed. Turn brought me 2nd nuts.AK<AAAK<QQQQ<JT. Raise to .08 from UTG, 3 callers so I just ship .90. All fold to last person who snaps. Board comes KQ943. He rolls over JToSeems to be a decent strat. Does get boring not playing anything below ATs and QJs, but if i run a little better itd be simpleEdit; I forgot AKss < AKdd on the Js4x7d flop. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Yeah, but you suck, Kevin. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Does anybody have some tips for multi-tabling? I've been trying to get the 16-20 tables you say, but when I get between 10-12 it becomes hard to open up a new table while keep track of all the tables. What makes it difficult is that half the table I try to open are ones I have already been to because the tell me I must sit with at least $X.XX. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Does anybody have some tips for multi-tabling? I've been trying to get the 16-20 tables you say, but when I get between 10-12 it becomes hard to open up a new table while keep track of all the tables. What makes it difficult is that half the table I try to open are ones I have already been to because the tell me I must sit with at least $X.XX.Where are you playing? The only sites I've been able to really max table all the same game are Full Tilt (16) and Pokerstars (24). The traffic is good enough where if you leave a table some one else will fill your spot fairly quickly. Make sure to have the correct filters up so you're only looking at one free seat tables. Not only is the traffic good, but the auto-rebuy/top off makes a huge difference since you're always sitting on the proper sized stack.Bodog and The Cereus network (AP/UB) simply does not have enough traffic to do this so you can't successfully table hop. I haven't played anywhere else (well Royal Vegas but that was 5 years ago) so I can't tell you how it would do. Also, you have to find a table layout that works for you. When I'm playing that many tables I use a stack layout (everything goes on top of each other). This way I can clearly see the lobby at all times. And yes, opening tables is the most tilting part of the process. I'm on a slow machine so people are usually able to jump the seat I'm going for before I can get it. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Where are you playing? The only sites I've been able to really max table all the same game are Full Tilt (16) and Pokerstars (24). The traffic is good enough where if you leave a table some one else will fill your spot fairly quickly. Make sure to have the correct filters up so you're only looking at one free seat tables. Not only is the traffic good, but the auto-rebuy/top off makes a huge difference since you're always sitting on the proper sized stack.Bodog and The Cereus network (AP/UB) simply does not have enough traffic to do this so you can't successfully table hop. I haven't played anywhere else (well Royal Vegas but that was 5 years ago) so I can't tell you how it would do. Also, you have to find a table layout that works for you. When I'm playing that many tables I use a stack layout (everything goes on top of each other). This way I can clearly see the lobby at all times. And yes, opening tables is the most tilting part of the process. I'm on a slow machine so people are usually able to jump the seat I'm going for before I can get it.This might be my main problem, Every time I try to open a new table I have to scroll and find the tables with a seat open. I play on stars. Last night I tried to shrink all the tables and place them so I could see them flashing? Maybe I will try your way. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 This might be my main problem, Every time I try to open a new table I have to scroll and find the tables with a seat open. I play on stars. Last night I tried to shrink all the tables and place them so I could see them flashing? Maybe I will try your way.If you stack them all on top of each other tables that need your attention will pop up to the front Link to post Share on other sites
Karrol Lina 0 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 If you stack them all on top of each other tables that need your attention will pop up to the frontThanks for the advice, Im trying to build a bankroll on the .05/.10 nl tables on PS.. I tried going lower limits but I end up wanting to bash my head in after about an hour.. Right now Im only playing 3-4 tables at a time, I will try and increase this next time I play..Thanks though, it was nice to hear the advice to leave once you get to 75 bb as this is what I have been doing and am getting advice that this is wrong to do. That i should stay and try and double up again, glad to hear what I am doing is correct. Thanks Again Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Thanks for the advice, Im trying to build a bankroll on the .05/.10 nl tables on PS.. I tried going lower limits but I end up wanting to bash my head in after about an hour.. Right now Im only playing 3-4 tables at a time, I will try and increase this next time I play..Thanks though, it was nice to hear the advice to leave once you get to 75 bb as this is what I have been doing and am getting advice that this is wrong to do. That i should stay and try and double up again, glad to hear what I am doing is correct. Thanks Again Sticking around after you double while shortstacking is indeed a pretty bad idea.The reasoning is simply, you are shortstacking because you are not bankrolled enough to buy in full at those limits. You should only stick around with that bigger stack of 75BB if you're bankrolled for it, but if that is the case then you should be buying in full and avoiding this strategy in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
Karrol Lina 0 Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Sticking around after you double while shortstacking is indeed a pretty bad idea.The reasoning is simply, you are shortstacking because you are not bankrolled enough to buy in full at those limits. You should only stick around with that bigger stack of 75BB if you're bankrolled for it, but if that is the case then you should be buying in full and avoiding this strategy in the first place.Well, I have built my bankroll up to about 145.. However Im newer to online poker and would like to just get the hang of things more before I feel that I have the proper bankroll. I am used to playing $2 - $60, "spread-limit games" in a regular card room. We dont have NL in Minnesota unless it is a tourney.. So needless to say I am a bit out of my element online, and not quite yet comfortable with NL. Its tough playing these limits at times, but due to a divorce and the fact that bankroll's are marital assets Im starting over from scratch lol...Thanks for you help Link to post Share on other sites
mb2k 0 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 OP is very interesting. I'm playing .05/.10 with a ~40-50 bankroll so i think i qualify for this strat for the moment (?)2 questions though:1) why do shortstacks 'have a mathematical advantage on early streets'?2) does this strat work on 5/6-max tables? If not why not and is there an adjustment I can make? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 OP is very interesting. I'm playing .05/.10 with a ~40-50 bankroll so i think i qualify for this strat for the moment (?)2 questions though:1) why do shortstacks 'have a mathematical advantage on early streets'?2) does this strat work on 5/6-max tables? If not why not and is there an adjustment I can make?1) Because the larger stacks should technically be playing a wider range of hands against each other in order to profit properly, and the short stack coming in with a tight range offers them no implied odds when they enter the pot along with the short stacker.2) It does work on 6-max tables, and works well if you do it correctly, but you will have to loosen up quite a bit. I don't do this at 6-max because my blinds get destroyed since I'm playing too many tables to defend them. Link to post Share on other sites
mb2k 0 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Thanks TNAlso, a bit cheeky i know - but is there any way you can post that hands index table thats in your OP, in some other form? Like just plain text!? For some reason it doesn't show up on my work pc. Probably blocked by the bizarrely inconsistent web filter here..no worries if not Link to post Share on other sites
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