Obama Health Care Press Conference

[vbnautilus 48]

oh you're a commie liberal democrat and you know it. you know it!

ridiculous, I am basically an militant anarchist. i only voted for obama because he's black.

[brvheart 1,756]

ridiculous, I am basically an militant anarchist. i only voted for obama because he's black.

So I guess all professors are racists.

[Balloon guy 158]

So I guess all professors are racists.

All the commie lib democrats ones areorAt least the gays ones areAgain...conflicted on the best response here

[Jeepster80125 0]

I wish people would realize this. What's the point of a public option?linkIn the national debate over health insurance reform, a key issue is whether the government should offer a "public plan" to compete with private insurers. For example, in today's NY Times, Paul Krugman writes,

What’s still not settled, however, is whether regulation will be supplemented by competition, in the form of a public plan that Americans can buy into as an alternative to private insurance. Now nobody is proposing that Americans be forced to get their insurance from the government. The “public option,” if it materializes, will be just that — an option Americans can choose. And the reason for providing this option was clearly laid out in Mr. Obama’s letter: It will give Americans “a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep the insurance companies honest.”

It seems to me that this passage, like most discussion of the issue, leaves out the answer to the key question: Would the public plan have access to taxpayer funds unavailable to private plans?If the answer is yes, then the public plan would not offer honest competition to private plans. The taxpayer subsidies would tilt the playing field in favor of the public plan. In this case, the whole idea of a public option seems to be a disingenuous route toward a single-payer system, which many on the left favor but recognize is a political nonstarter.If the answer is no, then the public plan would need to stand on its own financially and, in essence, would be a private nonprofit plan. But then what's the point? If advocates of a public plan want to start a nonprofit company offering health insurance on better terms than existing insurance companies, nothing is stopping them from doing so right now. There is free entry into the market for health insurance. If a public plan without taxpayer support would succeed, so would a nonprofit insurance company. The fundamental viability of the enterprise does not depend on whether the employees are called "nonprofit administrators" or "civil servants."The bottom line: If the goal is honest competition in the provision of health insurance, the public option cannot do much good but can potentially do much harm.Cliff Notes:

[checkymcfold 0]

Ted Kennedy is now 76. Average life expectancy in the United States is 78.06. For a man who has already reached 76, life expectancy is somewhat longer than average (since people who die younger lower the national average)

for the record, this is neither a logically nor mathematically sound statement. so yeah, it will probably rile up republicans.

[hblask 1]

for the record, this is neither a logically nor mathematically sound statement. so yeah, it will probably rile up republicans.

I don't know if the specific numbers are correct, but why do you think it is un-mathematical to recognize that life expectancy at birth is different than life expectancy at any given age? There is a great article on thestraightdope.com about it if you are interested.Also, you can check the IRS actuarial tables to see life expectancy at any given point in your life.

[strategy 4]

for the record, this is neither a logically nor mathematically sound statement. so yeah, it will probably rile up republicans.

basic statistics, my friend.

[Balloon guy 158]

basic statistics, my friend.

You ever hear about the statistician who drowned in a lake with an average depth of only 32"?

[checkymcfold 0]

lol, i'm making fun of a guy who says that since people that die young lower the life expectancy, someone who isn't even yet to the 78 year threshold is actually living longer than most people. statistically, if young people are farther from the mean life expectancy, they are skewing the data in the other direction.his caveat, if he wants to make sense, should be that freakishly old people raise the life expectancy. then teddy would be average. not that either his claim or the one he's trying (and failing) to make actually mean anything. my general point is that this is yet another instance of spewing nonsense that doesn't mean anything with political intent. this practice hurts america.

[Balloon guy 158]

lol, i'm making fun of a guy who says that since people that die young lower the life expectancy, someone who isn't even yet to the 78 year threshold is actually living longer than most people. statistically, if young people are farther from the mean life expectancy, they are skewing the data in the other direction.his caveat, if he wants to make sense, should be that freakishly old people raise the life expectancy. then teddy would be average. not that either his claim or the one he's trying (and failing) to make actually mean anything. my general point is that this is yet another instance of spewing nonsense that doesn't mean anything with political intent. this practice hurts america.

And now I'm going to make fun of the guy who doesn't get the point of the story in the first place, which was that since Kennedy is 76 and needed expensive brain surgery, under the Obama healthcare, his age would factor ino the value of his life and the willingness of the government to want to spend the money to prolong it. thus making the whole issue of do we want the government to make these kinds of decisions?But you wanted to try to show how you have a passable understanding of statistics that were in fact wrongly applied here and the end result is that you are now defending yourself with regards to whether or not this fellow's story line checks out with regards to an ancillary issue that bears little weight in the discussion taking place.Man, it hurts me when you look this dumb. what next? Christianity?

[strategy 4]

You ever hear about the statistician who drowned in a lake with an average depth of only 32"?

I can tell this isn't going good places

lol, i'm making fun of a guy who says that since people that die young lower the life expectancy, someone who isn't even yet to the 78 year threshold is actually living longer than most people.my general point is that this is yet another instance of spewing nonsense that doesn't mean anything with political intent. this practice hurts america.

I re-read the quote just now. The person is attempting to say that a 76 year old person has a larger average life expectancy than the national average of 78. He does a pretty bad job of it. And then, yes, he injects a bunch of irrational liberal-hating BS.I agree with this.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

lol, i'm making fun of a guy who says that since people that die young lower the life expectancy, someone who isn't even yet to the 78 year threshold is actually living longer than most people. statistically, if young people are farther from the mean life expectancy, they are skewing the data in the other direction.

Yeah, median age of death is obviously the most important number.

[85suited 0]

What happens when the government is put in charge of your health care?Take Oregon's Public Health Plan for exampleSome terminally ill patients in Oregon who turned to their state for health care were denied treatment and offered doctor-assisted suicide instead, a proposal some experts have called a chilling, corruption of medical ethics.Since the spread of his prostate cancer, 53-year-old Randy Stroup of Dexter, Ore., has been in a fight for his life. Uninsured and unable to pay for expensive chemotherapy, he applied to Oregon's state-run health plan for help.Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's request with a letter saying the state would not cover Stroup's pricey treatment, but would pay for the cost of physician-assisted suicide.

[checkymcfold 0]

And now I'm going to make fun of the guy who doesn't get the point of the story in the first place, which was that since Kennedy is 76 and needed expensive brain surgery, under the Obama healthcare, his age would factor ino the value of his life and the willingness of the government to want to spend the money to prolong it. thus making the whole issue of do we want the government to make these kinds of decisions?But you wanted to try to show how you have a passable understanding of statistics that were in fact wrongly applied here and the end result is that you are now defending yourself with regards to whether or not this fellow's story line checks out with regards to an ancillary issue that bears little weight in the discussion taking place.Man, it hurts me when you look this dumb. what next? Christianity?

so you're trying to argue that the for-profit insurance industry (which pays people to figure out how to deny coverage in precisely these sorts of situations) is more likely to be good for teddy than the not-necessarily-for-profit government in this kind of situation? rrriiiiight.

[checkymcfold 0]

Yeah, median age of death is obviously the most important number.

this isn't really a discussion i was aiming for, but fwiw, i think that it's not significantly less worth looking at than the average, no. i mean, not that such sorts of evaluations are easy to quantify, but still. along these lines, i'm suddenly curious about how stillborn babies and babies that live for under a week or something are worked into these kinds of statistics, honestly.

[CaneBrain 95]

Bill Maher made the point tonight that our veterans have socialized medicine so why cant the rest of America. Considering the Walter Reed scandal I am not sure his case holds water.

[NickZepp 0]

Bill Maher made the point tonight that our veterans have socialized medicine so why cant the rest of America. Considering the Walter Reed scandal I am not sure his case holds water.

The health care for our veterans is in a pretty sad state for the most part. And I'm not really against health care. But this plan has nothing to do with health care. Most Americans currently have health care. Even if the 45 million people number is right that's still a minority of the populations and how many of those are illegal immigrants?

[strategy 4]

Even if the 45 million people number is right that's still a minority of the populations and how many of those are illegal immigrants?

the "uninsured" number will radically shrink when this plan goes into action, mostly because they'd then more strictly define "uninsured" to be able to say the public option is working.politics 101 imo

[hblask 1]

so you're trying to argue that the for-profit insurance industry (which pays people to figure out how to deny coverage in precisely these sorts of situations) is more likely to be good for teddy than the not-necessarily-for-profit government in this kind of situation? rrriiiiight.

You could make this same argument about any market-produced vs centrally produced product. How's your Yugo running? My Toyota is 12 years old and still works fine.If you want to stick to medicine, we can compare the Mayo Clinic to the VA.

[hblask 1]

along these lines, i'm suddenly curious about how stillborn babies and babies that live for under a week or something are worked into these kinds of statistics, honestly.

This is one of the reasons Canada can claim they have lower infant mortality rates than the US. In the US, if a baby is born at 23 weeks (as my son was), the doctors have very good success and the baby is likely to live at least a couple days, if not a normal life. All measures are taken to save the baby. In Canada, the baby is unlikely to survive more than a few minutes.So in the US, the babies that we try to save but die at 24 hours count against our infant mortality rate. In Canada, they expect the babies to die so they don't try and don't count against infant mortality, just as stillborn. We had a nurse for our preemie who had previously worked in Canada and moved to the US because she couldn't stand seeing the doctors not even try. Neither of my youngest two kids would be alive had they been born in Canada.So to anyone who is even thinking of bringing socialized medicine here (not to you personally, to the whole movement in general), I will drop my normal civility and give you a big F.U.

[NickZepp 0]

the "uninsured" number will radically shrink when this plan goes into action, mostly because they'd then more strictly define "uninsured" to be able to say the public option is working.politics 101 imo

The uninsured stat is a made up one. Nobody can possibly know the exact number. I do know that this will lead to even longer waiting lines if you go to the ER and way too few doctors for regular check ups. And there won't be an influx of doctors because of the cap being put on their pay. There would be no reason to become a doctor anymore becuase they wouldn't be able to pay off their college debt. If Congress really wanted to make healthcare cheaper they would make medicine cheaper. What Americans want is the same care we get right now but a lot cheaper.

[CaneBrain 95]

The health care for our veterans is in a pretty sad state for the most part. And I'm not really against health care. But this plan has nothing to do with health care. Most Americans currently have health care. Even if the 45 million people number is right that's still a minority of the populations and how many of those are illegal immigrants?

I am pretty sure that illegal immigrants make up roughly 20% of our uninsured population.

[Dagata 0]

10 million illegals seems to be the most popular number

[CaneBrain 95]

10 million illegals seems to be the most popular number

yeah, that number is popular because it is hilariously low. There are way more than 10 million illegals in this country.

[NickZepp 0]

I am pretty sure that illegal immigrants make up roughly 20% of our uninsured population.

If there was a way to know either number then that would be a good guess. I do know that most of those uninsured are too poor or don't care to have any health insurance. The first one is the one that this government wants this plan to work for if they want this to work right. The 2nd one doesn't really want it anyway so why give it to them?