3 Bet Aa Then (probably Stupidly) Checked Flop

[opie 0]

Live hand - 4/8 at the Bellagio this past weekend.Reads:Both villains are good players, but not great, mostly playing decent cards. EP+1 in particular thinks every flop raise means trips (he told me that several times), and every pre-flop 3 bet is a super great hand (once when I folded an AQ hand later in a hand after I had 3 bet it preflop, I told him I had QQ to enforce this view). I hadn't been at the table too long and had been playing kind of tight since I hadn't had many cards yet.Preflop:EP limpsEP +1 raisesI am in EP+2 (is that MP?) and have both beautiful black Aces and 3 bet it.All fold (including blinds) and the two betters call. Flop: Qd Jd JcCheck, check, I ... pause and ... check. (???????)One thought I had in my mind is someone could have a J and I am going to call down (at least) so this prevents a check raise at some point in the hand. I also thought a check on my part would really confuse my opponents, which it did - this check had them totally confused, but it was because I managed to confuse myself. I also thought that after a check, they might bet into me (which they did) and I might get a BB out of both of them on the turn instead of a flop call for a SB and a turn fold. Plus the two diamond face cards could make great straight and/or flush draws for the range of hands I was putting them on .... although I think this is probably why I should have bet. Basically, I got confused and think I screwed it up, which is why I'm asking.Turn: blank (6s or something).Bet, call, I call. They did bet into me.River: blank (3h or something)Check, check, I bet (pretty sure I am going to win), EP folds, EP+1 has a LONG pause as he did not want to call but couldn't resist and he called.What line do you take on that flop? If you come out betting every street, how do you handle a check raise at any point (flop or turn)? Is this a good flop for my hand or a scary one? I couldn't even figure that out. Thanks.Peace,Opie

[MNmiracleCJS 0]

My answer:I don't think checking the flop is horrible, but I probably bet I think its just a different way to play the hand. This is both a scary and a good flop for us. The questions that you need to ask are 1: would either villain call a 3 bet with AJ? 2: wouldn't they 4-bet pre with queens?flop comes out: personally when they check to me I'd Probably bet and I'm ok with it(obv) if they foldIf i get check raised I go into check call mode and garner the information at showdown if we assume the same turn and river cards.I think I'm ahead and expect to rake this pot one way or the other.but FWIW I dont think checking the flop is bad just a different way to play the hand, and you might have gotten max value by doing so....

[rrumsey 0]

i agree with the checked flop too because it really is a flop when some hands in both our villians ranges will repop use and then we are screwed. Also, it is a multiway pot and that warrents safe play in and of itself

[opie 0]

The questions that you need to ask are 1: would either villain call a 3 bet with AJ? 2: wouldn't they 4-bet pre with queens?

The limper could have limped in with any non-paired broadway cards (or suited connectors or any pair), so that includes AJ, KJ, and even QJ and JT since the table was somewhat passive and loose preflop (I'm sure he expected several callers, and at most one raise).No, Queens may not necessarily have 4-bet. At least, not at this table.Strange that people aren't arguing with the way I played the hand when I think it is probably wrong. I feel like giving a free card to a draw heavy board when you aren't way ahead is bad idea. Or maybe it isn't draw heavy - maybe it hit their hand - I'm way behind any J, but also way ahead of any Q (except QQ).The thought going through my head was that I could win more by checking the flop when ahead (since they are more likely to bet/call other more expensive streets), and I'm more likely to lose less when behind (unless they check the turn and succeed in check raising me). But I hate giving up a free card to someone drawing.Peace,Opie

[Zach6668 513]

I bet the flop all day long.

[TheCinciKid 0]

This isn't a tremendous flop for your hand, but I submit that it really doesn't matter all that much. It's 4/8 and based on your reads, these guys aren't tremendous players. You should be betting this flop for 2 reasons, value and to charge them if they have something like backdoor diamonds or one pair. For instance, one of these guys could easily have 66 and that makes the turn card very much not a blank, you don't want to give anyone a free draw to a 2-outer. You want to bet and if they call, great you make money on it...if they fold, oh well. As played, I think I also raise this turn. If you get 3bet, you can probably think pretty seriously about folding unless one of these guys is likely to overplay one pair or 2 Kings. I probably end up calling down if I'm 3bet, but I definitely prefer raising the turn after the flop check. After all, why did you check the flop unless it was to essentially disguise the strength of your hand and try to get more money in on later streets.

[RISEorFall 0]

bet the flopyoure ahead of waaaay more hands than youre behind that will calla c/r doesnt necessarily mean a J, could be AQ, KT, diamonds, some pocket pairs hoping your AK missed, etc. way too draw heavy board to check if it was more like JJ6r a check might be ok (tho even then, you can get calls from pocket pairs, A high, random 6s, etc)keep in mind if you sometimes check AA on this board, you have to check AJ and QQ too, both of which would be bad because you can get bets from drawing hands, Qs, etc.

[opie 0]

and the answer is ... bet the flop.EP had pocket 10s (and just limped). EP+1 had pocket Ks (and didn't 4 bet).I was pretty sure I got this one wrong but wanted to verify. Thanks everyone.Peace,Opie

[antistuff 0]

bet the flop for sure...and i wouldn't usually consider folding to a check raise. i would check raise you here with hands like QJ+ and then value town the turn and river if you didn't put in any more action. live against some players you might actually be able to find a fold somewhere if they put in a raise back at you, but in general no.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Just keep it simple....Bet/raise until you face resistance, then call down UI. No need to get fancy or outthink yourself here, you definitely lost value.

[Jadaki 0]

Bet/raise for sure.

[Andynice20 0]

Why in God's name wouldn't you bet this flop? You get bets in from any Q, any other pair, any draw, hell even A high will call you there sometimes. Yea, you might get check raised, but more times then not your opponent will have a Q or any other pair trying to find out where he is. You def cost yourself value by checking here, the amount of times your opponents have a jack don't outweigh the times they don't. In a game like LHE where you grind out a BB or 2 per hour, you can't afford to miss value.